Cross posted on RPG.net (but I haven't got much in the way of a response there)

Monday night I played through the best session yet of our Shadowrun campaign. Neither of the magic users showed up which was cool because we didn't have any of that annoying magic.

Anyway, my rigger/hacker really got to shine with his Humanis Policlub contacts, his spamming our Elf Fixer PCs com (which led to the best quote of the session: Gah! Turn off your eyes! in response to the Troll Porn ads during a short but funny comic relief bit), and during the really awesome run itself against a very scary LoneStar security rigger, and a very well outfitted Megacorp security force couple with Aerodynes (I think that was the term, military hover craft) and a really cool chase though the Arcology that we were hired to sabotage.

Great session. I blew through nearly 60,000¥ worth of gear including two drones (one of which was our ride, which I had to crash through a mall to escape two heavily armed hovercraft before we reached the relative safety of the NY barrens). Combined with the drone I had to sacrifice in Tehran in the session before this, I'm in need of some new gear.

Anyway, I was wondering about the load limits on the various drones. I can't seem to figure out from the SR4 corebook if I can mount anything heavier than a LMG on a drone such as a Doberman or Steel Lynx, because I was thinking of putting an Assault Cannon on a Steel Lynx, or an Aztechnology Striker single shot rocket launcher since I've got the connections and the cash (130,000¥).

For that matter I can't figure out which is heavier an Assault Cannon or a Light Machine Gun.

Also what would be the limits for flying drones such as the MCT-Nissan Rotodrone? I see that the pregen Dwarf Rigger™ has submachine guns mounted on his rotodrones so I was thinking of doing something similar only loading them with Stick'n'Shock darts since the less killing my character has to do the better, and because I'm under the impression that taser darts can hamper other drones.

Lastly we've been joking around the table of loading some explosives or perhaps poison on to a microdrone and flying it into someones mouth or nose like in Aeon Flux. Any idea as to how feasible that would be based on previous editions?

Basically we're nearing the end of the campaign, less than a month left, and I want to know what some optimal drone configurations are. As it is I've been loading up on Ultrasound and thermographic sensors, and using Ares Antioch grenade launchers or a LMG on my Dobermans.


One suggestion I've been given is to put a sniper rifle on a weather balloon drone, which sounds okay but our group doesn't accept assassination jobs so its kinda useless.

as far as the drones going inside someone's nose or something, i don't think that's possible with the core book's drones (arsenal may change that, however). the smallest drone is pretty small... something like 2 inches, i think... but not really small enough to get inside someone and blow up (or at least, not their nose. i suppose it could go in their mouth, but if they don't notice a 2 inch drone crawling into their mouth, well... you might as well just walk up to them and shoot them, 'cause they're clearly not very observant.

smaller than body 3 drones can have weapons to some extent, however: consider the lonestar iball. exploding microdrones could be possible, (if nothing else, glue a grenade round to them, and wirelessly detonate the grenade), though expensive. it would have to be really worth it.

anyways, if you were thinking of putting an assault cannon onto a drone, there's not all that huge of a difference between assault cannon and sniper rifle with ex-ex ammo. (more specifically, the cannon does 10P with -5 AP, the rifle does 9P with -4 AP i think, using newest errata... except that the sniper rifle can also load other types of bullets). the sniper drone would make an excellent source of cover during a run around the outdoors, and would be reasonably effective in stopping pursuit i would think. in any event, you can't (currently) put anything bigger than an LMG on a drone, but since there's no real way of knowing offhand what is bigger than an LMG (well... HMG and MMG are pretty much a shoe-in, but other than that), it's pretty much up to GM discretion. frankly, i don't think it's gonna break anything to load up a rocket launcher or anything like that, so i say go for it. certainly, the recoil on a rocket launcher doesn't seem like it would be worse than an LMG.

anyways, small drones can be used to get close to a given target and do a cyberware or MAD scan, which can be very nice sometimes.

flying drones can mount any type of gun ground drones can, apparently. so, any drone with body 3 or higher can have a weapon mount installed which can hold anything up to an LMG (precisely what that means varies according to your DM, as mentioned).

personally, for versatility in my drones, i've always liked the alpha. YMMV, of course, but it can use any sort of bullet and any sort of grenade, which makes it extremely versatile.

also, a smart firing platform installed on any drone-mounted weapon (note that drone mounted weapons need not be unmodified, and can in fact have any accessories they could have outside of a drone) means that the drone can full dodge and shoot at the same time, and additionally means that you can load up on lots of different autosofts (double what you could with just the drone, assuming you keep the same response in both platform and drone).

one thing i've often considered is using a laser microphone to transmit data through a window or something. it would require two pieces (one inside, one outside), and each piece would simply need speakers and the laser microphone attachment. you could then simply transmit information through even wireless inhibiting windows or any other surface you can laser microphone through, which means you could set up a wireless relay into a building theoretically you'd need some sort of program to turn information into sound, of course, and there would probably be lag though...

well for rotodrones, the strato-9 the Star uses is equipped w/ an LMG IIRC.

The Lynx though is a bruiser and should be able to be loaded up with an HMG or assault cannon. If I had my Rigger 3 handy I could give you the details on the hard points and firm points available, but that isn't exactly relevant to SR4.

Instead, think of it this way. If a strato-9 can carry an LMG and it's a roto drone, stands to reason that a STeel Lynx, which is much tougher, and a steadier firing platform, could carry heavier weaponry such as an HMG or an assault cannon.

That's my rule of thumb. I'm sure someone else could give you some actual numbers.

You can't mount an assault cannon on a drone.
Weapon Mounts: Vehicles may be equipped with a
number of weapon mounts equal to their Body ÷ 3 (round
down). Weapon mounts may hold any LMG or smaller-sized
weapon and 250 rounds of ammo.

A PAC cannon is larger then an LMG. Its even layed out right on the Steel Lynxs it carries and LMG or smaller.

For a Steel Lynx you want a heavy duty automatic. So it can lay down suppression fire and cover the runners. Automatics also have the option of wide and narrow bursts. The alpha's a good choice for as it has an attached grenade launcher. Gas grenades and flash bang work great as the drone won't risk hurting themselves.

For your flying drones you want a sniper rifle. A Rotar drone won't stand up long once the enemy starts shooting at it. But as they need open skys to move give them a long ranged weapon. One of these could easily support you well out of automatic range picking off foes. With a silencer attached you an keep the profile low.
Take advantage of a Rotar drones flight and the sniper rifles range.

Thank you all, for such informative and quick responses.

I hadn't seriously considered the sniper rifle as a drone weapon, but I now see its worth.

I think I'll but the heavier weaponry on our vehicle for now.


Oops gotta go.

Exotic weapons can be interesting as well - the super squirt can be really amusing on a drone.

Edit: Are there any drone creation tools out there? Spreadsheets or the like, perhaps?

Only modification spreadsheets.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?act=...=ST&f=3&t=13609

May be a little late, and not strictly within the bounds of rules, but since I spent four years in the Marines, real life info on Machine Guns and something that looks roughly equivalent to an assault cannon.

LMG-M249 SAW
Fires the same round as the M-16(5.56mm), only a few(5 or so) pounds heaver(total of about 13-15 pounds, not including ammo) May be somewhat accurately fired from the shoulder or hip, but prefered position is kneeling or the prone. Equipped with a bipod.

MMG- M240G(G is pronounced phonetically e.g. "Golph")
Fires a 7.62 mm round, the same as some sniper rifles. Heavy. Cannot be accurately fired from any position except from the prone. Equipped with a bipod, Although a tripod is standard issue and is the preferred firing platform. Weight approx 20-25 lbs.

HMG- M2 Browning .50 cal
May not be fired from any position but the prone. Requires a vehicle mount or tripod. Heavy enough that it must be cradled in both arms when carried. Fires a .50 caliber round. Approx 40-50 lbs, round(including shell) itself is at least four inches long.

Assault Cannon-esque--Mk19("Mark nineteen")
Fully automatic 40mm grenade launcher, fires 40mm grenades that will penetrate 2.5 inches of hardened armor, with a 5m kill radius and a 15m maim radius. Only capable of being fired from a tripod or vehicle mount. Weight, approx 75 pounds.

Hope that helps.

I should point out, crakkerjakk, that the 7.62mm round fired by the M240 is the same as some assault rifles as well, and that the 50 caliber round fired by the ma duece is also used in some sniper rifles, with the closest game equivilent being the Barret M121... which has yet to make an appearence in 4...

One of my personal favorites is to mount a directional jammer on a roto-drone. It can knock other flyers out of the sky, disrupt ground communications and generally raise cain pretty effectively.

Couple that with a taser or some stick-and-shock weapons and you've got a versatile anti-technology platform.

The best drone we ever had was "Nanny Ruxpin", a popular line of caretaking, educational, interactive teddy bears favored by Fuchi suits (oof, dating this!) to watch over their kids while mommy and daddy were earning pay. "Nanny Ruxpin" was able to play with the child, fully ambulatory, and could call emergency services when in need. Nanny Ruxpin was a drone with a god Pilot program and lots of good software.

Nanny Ruxpin could also be set up for rigging.

So, the team hacked poor Nanny, letting it do the usual playstuff, but, when it was time to go in, Nanny opened the locks, then refused to call for security. Even told teh kid that it was fine to go with "Mommy's friends," so there'd be no trouble.

Also handy for watching the parents once they got home and got the demands for the extraction.

Nanny Ruxpin wants to be your friend, too!

(PS, they never hurt the kid, nor even threatened him. Mom and dad called CorpSec, who at first set up a trap, but, since Nanny was eavesdropping teh whol etime, the runners knew about it and, instead, went to teh parents and picked them up. Cleanest run ever.)

@ Spike

The vast majority of Marine snipers use the M40A1 or M40A3, both of which are chambered in the 7.62mm. The .50 cal rifle is generally only used to set up overwatch on vehicle checkpoints so that if someone tries to run a barricade, you can crack their engine block.

So while, yes, technically the .50 cal round is also used in sniper rifles, it's nowhere near as common as the 7.62mm. Also, many sniper rifles are chambered with rounds that are also used by assault rifles. A common hunting round, the 30-06, was originally pioneered in the M1 Garand, which filled the "assault rifle" role in WW2. Often the only difference in a "sniper rifle" vs. an "assault rifle" is the quality of the optics and the tolerences that the weapon is machined to.

*EDIT*

I wasn't trying to get into a "guns" discussion, was just trying to give the OP an idea of what the different size classes "feel" like, as far as carrying, shooting, etc.

The .50BMG is most commonly used in a "sniper" role by the US Coast Guard, the other branches of the military use it on occassion for what you might call "sniper" work, but not as frequently as us Coasties.

In almost all situations, it is used in an anti-vehicle role. Nothing stops a Go Fast (a smugglers souped up speedboat) like a giant freaking bullet in the engine(s).

These weapons can be used agianst people, and they are, and I would not want to have to clean up the mess doing so would leave behind.

Semper Paratus.

After several long months of downtime (and saving up for a few runs), my Technomancer will be building this little beauty to hove above the target building and provide an eye-in-the-sky, and if needed, some pretty impressive fire support.

I miss my M16....

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon." Unknown

some problems with that drone:

1) your pilot rating *must* be as high as the autosofts to get any use out of it. incidentally, save your sanity and just buy a bloody pilot program. it's not that expensive, and is definitely cheaper than spending the obscene amount of time it takes to code (which could instead be spent making money to buy the pilot and then some)

2) response 5 costs more than 1,000. i assume this is a typo, and you meant 10,000

3) response must also be 6 to get any benefit from those rating 6 autosofts (specifically, pilot must be 6, and response must be 6 to have pilot 6)

4) signal is not included in the base model at 5. it is 3. 5 is the signal rating of it's sensors (ie, their range) if i'm not mistaken. that being said, if you want signal, just buy a sattelite link.

5) actually, i'm pretty sure that's not the drone's sensor signal either, to be honest... the stormcloud is, if memory serves correctly, a medium drone. either the latest FAQ or errata (can't remember which) lists the sensor information for medium drones.

Thain:

The model I hefted, which was not the M82a1 though I don't remember which, was closer to 60 pounds. I thought I was lifting a Mk 19 when I picked it up. Not a light weapon at all...

Spike:

Are you certain it was an Barrett rifle of any type?

I double checked with the manufacturer's spec, and I was right on the money. The M82A1 weighs 12.9 kg empty, and the (discontinued) bullpup M82A2 weighs 14.75 kg empty. Obviously, a fullly loaded magazine will add to that, but even .50 BMG aren't that heavy.

~60 lbs seems awfully heavy for a rifle-type weapon; the famous (and fun! ) "Ma Duece" M2 machine gun weighs 38 kg (~83 lbs.)

Jaid:

Thanks for your feedback, I'll make those adjustments before I submit it to my GM. Bad mechanics aside, I think the concept is very sound. Geosynchronous Orbiting Sniper Death Blimp!

Its main role will be as a sensor platform, and SR4 lists it as a "Medium" drone. The SR4 sensors come in Micro, Mini, Small, and Large. I punted this one to the GM, and he "Okay'ed" the sensor suite... I'm only using 6 capacity, which is one more than "Small" and two less than "Large."

I'd drop the Geiger Counter if push came to shove on it though.

Hmmm... Your technomancer coded those programs him/herself?

As a GM I'd require your TM to have the software skill to do that, as the drone has standard architecture and thus wouldn't run a TMs thought-forms.

Of course, you may well have bought software to an appropriate level, or your GM is not as mean as me.

My technomaancer was a computer programmer in his background, and does indeed have a very high Software skill. He is also being aided by another chatacter with a moderate Software skill, and a very high Logic.

I don't know who made it. It was about two years ago, and I was drooling over an Armalite-15 set up for sniping, and checking out the XM8, but one of the tables had the 50 cal rifle set up on it and I hefted that bad boy! Felt like I needed a truss afterwards. Actually, it was a bit short for a 'sniping platform' I think, at least that caliber, and may have been magazine fed.

I should point out that teh Ma Duece is actually lighter than that. The Barrel is removable, and is 28 lbs by itself. In technical terms, you count the weight of the gun seperately, otherwise you have to start figuring out the weight of the mount you use too, and that just gets messy. One thing not generally mentioned is that after two or three hundred rounds on full auto, or heavy burst fire, you have to swap the barrel out to avoid overheating, making a Machine Gun a poor choice for extended autofire from a drone. Never mind that technically any flying drone firing a medium or heavy machine gun is gonna drop out of the sky from the recoil... unless that drone is a good 200-300 lbs or more before adding the gun. Big damn drones, and overpowered at that....

The last time I spent anytime around an M2, I wasn't too concerned about the weight of the mount we used.

That said, I'd classify a .50 caliber machinegun as a Heavy or Medium in SR-terms. A LMG like the Ares White Knight is more akin to a M249 SAW, in my mind's eye. That is also the upper limit for drone weaponry anyway.

Edit: Yes, I know that isn't an M2 in the pic. It's not me in the pic either. It'sCoasties,in a boat, with a gun. One does what you can with Google on short notice.

That's why you get a Big Damn Drone, and mount two HMGs xoax. Fire them staggered. Hell, if weight's not an issue, add a chemical cooling system.