apparently, the NYPD doesn't like going up against the Hell's Angels, not because they're dangerous (though the siege in the article indicates they are), but because they've got a stable of high-priced lawyers who have cost the city more than $800,000 for illegally raiding the Angel's headquarters.

i like this as a partial explanation for why gangs like the Ancients sit on top of the world. they've made it big, and they can stay big because anyone who tries to take them down has to weigh the threat of being sued by hired Tir lawyers.

Well you have to think, with the current market price of a REAL harley running well past 30k, these arnt a bunch of broke thugs anymore. I'd wager that there are some pretty impressive diplomas in that building.

Well, Bikers have an interesting hierarchy system. The typical image of the thug biker, those guys are the lowly flunkies, They aren't the ones with big lawyers and stuff, they are just foot soldiers. Bikers use the system of Patches. The highest level, a Full Patched, is really a very rich criminal overlord in his own right. They have their own territories from which they get a slice of the pie (mostly drugs). They're the ones with the high-paid lawyers. They continue to have the look of a bum, but they are rich guys, who don't personally get their hands dirty much.

Montreal had a big biker war about 10 years back. That got the public's attention. Even today, the bikers make the news often, when they get arrested and whatnot. There's been a few TV series, books, and newspaper articles. So it's just knowledge I sorta picked up over time.

For example, there was this great article one day that an undercover journalist wrote about how the Hell's Angels paid differant amounts of money for Banditos killed. Like, a flunky was 1 grand, but if you offed a Full Patch, they paid you 250k. No questions asked. They said that if you claimed the kill, they gave you the money, because if they found out the guy you said you'd killed was still alive,you wouldn't live to enjoy that money.

Nowadays, in Montreal, the bikers have been arrested to near extinction. So much so that now, since the mafia never really had that much influence over here to begin with, street gangs are now filling the power vacuum and are the next big problem all the media talk about. Which IMO is worst, since the bikers were more professional and didn't really mess with Joe Public (well, Joe Publique here ), while your average haitian ganger won't really think twice about knifing you if you look at him funny.

I still remember reading that one news blurb of the biker wars in Scandinavia, one biker gang attacked another group's place using weapons including a rocket launcher(?). I think that was the weapon because it just stood out to me and why I wanted to commit that little news to memory, I was thinking, daaaannng.

Yeah, that was some years ago when the Hell's Angels fought with the Bandidos.

What country? What city? What year?

I'm a Scand, but I was a kid until very recently...

Uh... Denmark/ Copenhagen (I'm sure about that) and some parts of Sweden and/ or Norway.

The Hell's Angels' reputation for violence, while not totally undeserved, is rather overhyped. Most of them are nice and easygoing guys.

In fact, the same can be true for most bikers, who, due to the passage of time and a drop in popularity amongst youth, are mostly middle aged and elderly fellows who happen to enjoy riding and who may or may not have watched Easy Rider too many times.

Some guys at my old school were general macho pricks who caused little amounts of trouble and showed off the phones and trainers their parents bought them, anyway, occasionally there would be some bashings or fights, with occasional weapons and etc. (remember this is australia) One day they apparently had a go at some guys riding past on their harleys, and the bikers looped around, followed them into a backstreet on their bikes, and pulled out sawed off shotguns from their saddle-bags. Those guys shat themselves, because in australia most of us rarely ever see guns except on the hips of cops and occasionally on farms.

See? Hell's Angels ain't all bad.

The rocket attacks in Denmark was in the late 90s (96-97). In one instance they fired a rocket at a prison in an assasination attempt at one of the inmates. However bikers aren't too bright and the rocket didn't have time to arm before hitting the walls.

Well, there is a differance between bikers - lovers of choppers who gather and bike around - and criminal bikers, who are groups like the Hell's Angels, Bandidos, Nomads, etc, who are nothing less than organised criminal syndicates. Extortion, racketeering, drug and weapons dealing, etc.

It's pretty much the same as saying not all italians are mafia, but that doesn't mean there is no mafia.

Back in the 70's some journalist working for a motorcycle rag wrote an article about how not all members of motorcycle clubs are criminals, he went as far as saying that 99% of MC members were honest law abiding citizens. Well ever since then it's been popular for "outlaw" bikers to proudly sport a diamond shaped patch with a big 1% on it, another tell-tale sign is an inverted AMA patch, or a MC patch that is cut into pieces hence the term "full patch member". The majority of MC's are made up of law abiding citizens, hell, the only 1% clubs I can think of off the top of my head are Pagans, bandidos, and the Outlaws. The Hell's Angels maintain that they are not a 1% club when in reality they just have enough muscle and lawyers to ensure that no one will say otherwise.

Yeah i'd agree that the ancients are like the Hells Angels, dirty enough to appeal to the disenfranchised youth but clean enough to stay out of prison.

The lawyer named in the article- Ronald Kuby is also a NY radio show host on WABC in the mornings. He is usually known as a civil rights attorney and represents the street gang , the Latin Kings. When asked if he would represent the Bloods or Crips, Kuby has said no, because they do not pay their bils. Apparenlty the Hell's Angels and Latin Kings set aside money to pay legal bills in advance.

More power to him. One of many groups that badly needs good legal defense is gangs (motorcycle or old-fashioned).

~J

Kuby is really cool. I've been on air on his show twice. His on air partner, Curtis Sliwa usually referes to me as a leftist freaky-deaky fruit loop- ironic if you know me. Kuby's radio show and well paying clients like the gangs allows him to put a lot of energy in to pro-bono civil rights work.

Elven lawyers, of course. Preferably assets of Telestrian.

i figure there are UCAS lawyers and then there are UCAS lawyers. every nation in North America (and every mega with operations there) probably has a cadre of lawyers who specialize in every other nation (and mega's) laws. the lawyers the Ancients hire probably are citizens of the UCAS, in order to provide at least the illusion of distance from the Tir. but their true interests and loyalties likely lie in the Tir.

C'mon, you don't really want to tell us that it's not like that, huh?

Bye
Thanee

Bah, the way I see it they are doing humanity a favor by trying to weed themselves out of the gene pool. *winks*

"RL" Threads are often on the razor's edge pretty much from the first post. That said, there is some great information in this thread for those who would like to use real life info about biking clubs or gangs in their role playing games. Keep posting along those lines and your golden.

I'm told I have extended family in the Hell's Angels, although I've never met them. I've got family that I've met in the Pagans club. A rough and tumble bunch that I wouldn't go getting drunk with, but nice enough to talk to briefly. I don't have any personal insight into the inner workings of their organizations, but I'll certainly be mining this thread for ideas.

This can show that gangs are not just mindless thugs. Some might be. Others might be linked to Corps. Some might be really organized.