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Ancient History
If the Sixth World magical goods economy was anything like our current one, it might look something like this.

Seriously now. Anyone out there got theories on why SR's magical goods economy is like it is, or questions about the same? How corporations can make money selling raw reagents, or why orichalcum dropped in price?
Trigger
Raw reagents are actually pretty hard to find, as the area they must be harvested from needs to be pristine...and the megas that work in magical goods have the claims on most of those sites.
fistandantilus4.0
Orichalcum price drop could be simply becasuse no one was willing to pay the huge pricees for it. With a bit more work and a lot less cash you could make up for the lack of orichalcum by using other materials. Think of it like cell phones. Used to be D&D (Doctors&Drug Dealers) only, now every one and their fucking dog's kids has one.

Isn't the point of a lot of R&D to make something more affordable so that it can be more market able? Diamonds were high price, so they started making them in labs. Gold, the worlds backing for currency, ,was less expensive than orichalcum. Add in the orichalcunmm rush, and the fact that it can be made (think of how many people's characters are sitting in alchemy labs every other month and selling orichalcum), market gets more available, so the price goes down.

As for marketing telesma, that one I don't really know. Because they have to go to a lot of expense to sell something that can only be atered to what, 1% of the world's population? That one I don't see being very good for the bottom line.
emo samurai
I think it's because raw telesma are really hard to find and tend to be in awakened lands that will eat you alive if you fuck up. Lands with wendigos and bandersnatches and rabid fucking unicorns. The fact that it takes months to find radical reagents for a single focus and the fact that that 1% of the population REALLY would like a karma-cheap power boost the way foci do it would help contribute to that.
fistandantilus4.0
SO just how much would they realistically be willing to pay? I mean come on, tens of thousands for a foci? That's up there with the cyberdeck cost level of crazy from last edition. Of course, people pay 100,000 now for a car, so maybe it isn't that crazy after all. Feel like I'm defeating my own arguement here.
Kagetenshi
So totally sane, then? Good to know.

~J
emo samurai
Well, the thing is, a 100,000 nuyen.gif force 4 power focus will increase your magical productivity 33 %, and that 33% is worth more than 100,000 nuyen.gif a year. And that power focus is a bitch to make. So I think it's worth it.

Of course, this all hinges on magicians making a lot of money on non-artificing endeavors. And there have been threads that discuss this.
Thane36425
QUOTE (Ancient History)
If the Sixth World magical goods economy was anything like our current one, it might look something like this.

Seriously now. Anyone out there got theories on why SR's magical goods economy is like it is, or questions about the same? How corporations can make money selling raw reagents, or why orichalcum dropped in price?

Magical goods don't lend themselves to mass production, so it is pretty much a cottage industry. Yes, megas can have mages on staff making reagents and foci, but they can't crank them out like that can cell phones on a production line. That is part of the reason why those things are expensive.


You don't necessarily have to be in complete wildlands in the NAN or Amazonia to find raw materials, especially plant and animal varieties. You could probably find materials in a state park or a woodland between farms that hadn't been harvested for a while. One of my mages would search mainly in the watershed set-asides in the forests where loggers weren't allowed to cut. He carried a rifle too, just in case he saw likely animals.

Metals and Minerals are the ones most likely to be contaminated. They are in the ground and the easiest way to get to them is with explosives and machinery, which taint the land. There are some places where minerals and such are on the surface and people today still prospect with pans, but those are likely to be well known and competition fierce, not to mention how long it would take to get enough gold to be of use.

Now, I know of a few places in the real world where there are exposed fossil beds and probably some minerals that no one else knows about. If a mage had similar knowledge, they could take advantage of that, too.

But anyway, my mages would also specialize in plant and animal materials since those were comparatively easy to find without having to go out into really dangerous lands.

The draw down in price is kind of annoying now. It used to be that a mage could make a good living refining materials. In SR4, its has gotten harder. However, this should mean the price goes back up as more mages drop out of the business because they can't make a living at it.
emo samurai
You don't call 50,000 nuyen.gif a unit of orichalcum a living?
Lindt
Just remember how much time and money it takes to make one unit.

Another thought is market. I mean if people will pay the money, why not sell it for the big profit. And how many other people are doing that kind of work.
nezumi
You know, it'd be awfully useful if the magical ingredients had availability costs, either for how quickly they sell or how long the wait is. As it stands, reading through the book I can only assume they're all available right away as long as you have the cash, which means that any Joe with enchanting can go and make a few hundred thousand nuyen a year turning refined gold into radical gold. The market should either be completely flooded, driving the price for radical gold to just above that for refined gold, or absolutely dry due to a lack of natural resources (gold) being mined in the first place.
Thane36425
QUOTE (nezumi)
You know, it'd be awfully useful if the magical ingredients had availability costs, either for how quickly they sell or how long the wait is. As it stands, reading through the book I can only assume they're all available right away as long as you have the cash, which means that any Joe with enchanting can go and make a few hundred thousand nuyen a year turning refined gold into radical gold. The market should either be completely flooded, driving the price for radical gold to just above that for refined gold, or absolutely dry due to a lack of natural resources (gold) being mined in the first place.

SR3 and 2 had those kinds of charts. Another thing I miss are the cost of living charts between the different nations. My characters used to make good use of those. The mages would go the UCAS to buy raw materials then go back to the CAS to process them into Orichalcum and sell it there where prices were much higher for magical goods. Made a lot more profit that way.
nezumi
QUOTE (Thane36425)
SR3 and 2 had those kinds of charts.

SR3 had those charts? Where? I was just reading MitS and it had nothing to indicate that this stuff takes any amount of time to buy or sell. No availability or street index means to me it's immediately available for the stated price.
Pendaric
The rule with economics is purely how much shamans and mages makeing being over qualified super specialists? Enchanters are basical even more super specialised specialists providing for a money rich market. Kinda hangs together that if your quailfied to charge thousand of nuyen an hour for you skills your products will be pricey. If your customer can also charge thousands an hour for their skills they can afford your price.

SR economy suffers from game mechanic verus real profit/loss.

As to orichalcum drop in price, perhapes the percentage of the population that is awakened has increased due to natural population growth, so there is more production leading to a price war? Hence the lower competive price?
Ancient History
QUOTE (nezumi)
You know, it'd be awfully useful if the magical ingredients had availability costs, either for how quickly they sell or how long the wait is.

Street Magic lists Availability ratings for reagents.

QUOTE
As it stands, reading through the book I can only assume they're all available right away as long as you have the cash, which means that any Joe with enchanting can go and make a few hundred thousand nuyen a year turning refined gold into radical gold.

A very common attitude: any enchanter worth their salt is going to be raking in the nuyen, why bother running?

Part of the answer is investment-it takes cash and karma to get an enchanting shop, starting reagents, and an Enchanting skill high enough to be worthwhile. This is more pronounced in SR4, where a starting character isn't be able to lock themselves in their basement for a month or so and make orichalcum or radicals off the bat.

Another aspect is selling the goods. General fencing rules usually apply-after all, you don't expect a talismonger to make a profit if he pays what his customers pay for it-unless you sell direct (at which point you have to deal with all the fun parts of a business-including getting stiffed for payment, finding out that there's a lack of demand, etc.)

Megacorps, natch, have more efficient means to abuse the magical goods market than most player characters, hence the way they can stay well in the black.
Thane36425
QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE (Thane36425 @ Feb 4 2007, 05:01 PM)
SR3 and 2 had those kinds of charts.

SR3 had those charts? Where? I was just reading MitS and it had nothing to indicate that this stuff takes any amount of time to buy or sell. No availability or street index means to me it's immediately available for the stated price.

I just looked at MITS and they do have charts in the back with availability and street indexes for most gear, but not raw materials. Strange oversight there.

Had to go all the way back to first and second editions to find the cost of living charts. The designers really should have kept those, or should release an updated version of them. Without them, the world really is a uniform place where clearly it isn't.
Nyxll
I think the prices are way over inflated. I could see nations with huge populations like China and India really capitalizing on these. Harvesting the raw materials and refining is just labour intensive, (labour seems to be cheap and in over abundance in these countries.) Oricalcum I would see as something that would still be pricey because access to these raw materials are limited, but China would still really pump out a huge volume for all other materials.
Kagetenshi
China doesn't have a huge population, for much the same reason that the Holy Roman Empire doesn't have a huge population right now. The situation is probably similar in India (though if anyone has a reference printed before SotA: 2064, I'd appreciate it).

~J
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