Finished Products:
Scholar:
Scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; he is the custodian of all accumulated knowledge and the patron to magical researchers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Hermetic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the testing of logical reasoning as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and distrust intangible resources like intuition, faith, and superstition.
Advantages: +2 for Detection spells, +2 for Knowledge skill tests
Disadvantages: Scholar magicians are easily distracted by new and/or unusual knowledge. When faced with something he has never seen before the Scholar magician must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist examining the information/news/tome/etc at length. The magician will not put his life in danger
just to learn/study the information, but he will take the next safe opportunity to do so.
~*~
Philosopher:
Philosopher is the keeper of dreams and revealer of secrets; he is the custodian of all interpreted conceptual designs and the patron to seers, visionaries, and dreamers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Shamanic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the interpretation of imagery and impressions as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and as a means toward understanding the world beyond the limitations imposed by merely collecting facts, files, names, and numbers.
Advantages: +2 for Summoning spirits associated with Detection, +2 for Assenssing Tests
Disadvantages: When exposed to new and/or unusual knowledge, Philosopher magicians must seek deeper meanings and patterns, embracing the chaos beneath the order. When faced with something he has never seen before the Scholar must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist evaluating the information/news/tome/etc at length. This evaluation can take the form of artistic expression, meditive contemplation, communion with spirits, or heated debates with other characters. The magician will not put his life in danger just to evaluate the information or express his opinions on it, but he will take the next safe opportunity to do so.
~*~
I have a few ideas that I'll be putting up here over the next little while as I refine them; please critique:
Lady Luck
Chance favors the bold, they say, and those that play the odds can be very bold indeed; trusting in their luck, the followers of this mentor take outrageous chances and often succeed--but not all the time, effectively playing Russian Roulette with their magic.
Special: Characters who follow this mentor spirit can overcast spells to twice Magic attribute Force, but only suffer the Drain of a normal Force spell, but, if they glitch during any test--casting, opposed test, or resisting drain--then they have to resist the full Physical Drain value for the overcasted spell.
Whenever they cast a spell, they may not use Edge, not for additional dice, and definitely not for negating a glitch.
Ex: Sam, Magic 5, casts a Force 10 Stunball at some Ares goons that are chasing him and his chummers. The not-to-bright goons, with Willpower 2, are all unable to resist the powerful spell with Sam's Magic 5 and Spellcasting 4 and slump to the ground. Now Sam has to resist Drain; as he has been doing fine with this spell, his DV is only 3, as if he had cast a Force 5 Stunball (DV F/2+1). He rolls his Willpower 5 and Charisma 5 and easily suppresses the Drain.
However, if any of the tests had glitched--maybe his roll against the goons, or his Drain resistance roll--then he would have had to resist the full Physical DV from the Stunball, which would have been a DV of 6--not so easy to resist. And Stunball is pretty light on the DV as spells go; If Same cast a Force 10 Toxic Wave and glitched, then the DV would be 10--equal to his drain resistance dice pool.
~*~
Critiques? I have some more ideas that I'll be putting up here as I refine them a bit.
Full Version: Mentor Spirit Ideas
Good concept, but I'm not sure about the chance part applying to drain. I have no idea how else to critique, but just you wait...once I get it into words it'll be awesome...
...stupid Monday mornings
...stupid Monday mornings
i think it's too much, personally.
and besides, how does it make sense that they are supposed to be relying on luck, but can't use edge (which is supposed to include luck as a fairly major part of it).
and besides, how does it make sense that they are supposed to be relying on luck, but can't use edge (which is supposed to include luck as a fairly major part of it).
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| i think it's too much, personally. and besides, how does it make sense that they are supposed to be relying on luck, but can't use edge (which is supposed to include luck as a fairly major part of it). |
Because they're already gambling--gamblers don't get free "get out of crap" cards, which, in this situation, is what spending edge to negate a glitch counts as.
Besides, this wouldn't be the only mentor spirit with special edge issues; look at the Sun mentor spirit in Street Magic.
Let me just put this out here so you can see where I'm coming from: I was thinking of the thought about playing Russian Roulette, taking a risk for a payoff, and went with that direction: They can gamble and get a payoff, but occasionally the dice come up snake eyes and they're screwed.
Hmm, they seem to get off pretty lightly
Overcast and suffer 1/2 stun drain, or
Overcast and suffer normal physical drain
How about giving them a variant of the unlucky feature
The get extra dice to cast/resist drain, normally
but if they roll a 1 on the luck die, they take double the bonus die as a penalty.
Overcast and suffer 1/2 stun drain, or
Overcast and suffer normal physical drain
How about giving them a variant of the unlucky feature
The get extra dice to cast/resist drain, normally
but if they roll a 1 on the luck die, they take double the bonus die as a penalty.
| QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
| How about giving them a variant of the unlucky feature The get extra dice to cast/resist drain, normally but if they roll a 1 on the luck die, they take double the bonus die as a penalty. |
Sounds like an idea.... I'll have to think on it.
Ah, got it!
I was thinking that they re-roll 6's, but any glitch is a critical. That way they can either get really lucky, or royally screwed depending on the Lady's whim.
I was thinking that they re-roll 6's, but any glitch is a critical. That way they can either get really lucky, or royally screwed depending on the Lady's whim.
I've got a better idea on that. On every resistance roll they roll a seperate 1d6. On a result of 1 they take 1.5x drain (overcast or normal) and on a result of 6 they take .5x drain. Any other number results in normal occurance.
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Feb 5 2007, 01:59 PM) |
| I've got a better idea on that. On every resistance roll they roll a seperate 1d6. On a result of 1 they take 1.5x drain (overcast or normal) and on a result of 6 they take .5x drain. Any other number results in normal occurance. |
I like it. Of course, I would modify that separate 1d6 to: roll of 1-2 they get the 1.5x drain, and on a roll of 5-6 they get the .5x drain, with 3-4 being normal drain.
Hmm... so that sounds like a decent thing for Lady Luck; but chance is fickle, but favors the bold...
Ahh...
Here we go:
Lady Luck:
Pros: Chance favors the bold: On any Sorcery or Conjuring test, the character rolls a separate 1d6; on a roll of 1, the character has 1.5x the normal drain (round up); on a roll of 2 or 3, the character has normal drain, and on a roll of 4-6, they have 1/2 the normal drain (round up). (This is so the character has an even chance of getting reduced Drain, encouraging him to take risks)
Cons: Chance is also fickle; characters must spend 2 points of Edge to negate a glitch or downgrade a critical glitch.
~*~
Critiques?
| QUOTE (bibliophile20) | ||
I like it. Of course, I would modify that separate 1d6 to: roll of 1-2 they get the 1.5x drain, and on a roll of 5-6 they get the .5x drain, with 3-4 being normal drain. Hmm... so that sounds like a decent thing for Lady Luck; but chance is fickle, but favors the bold... Ahh... Here we go: Lady Luck: Pros: Chance favors the bold: On any Sorcery or Conjuring test, the character rolls a separate 1d6; on a roll of 1 or 2, the character has 1.5x the normal drain (round up); on a roll of 3, the character has normal drain, and on a roll of 4-6, they have 1/2 the normal drain (round up). (This is so the character has an even chance of getting reduced Drain, encouraging him to take risks) Cons: Chance is also fickle; characters must spend 2 points of Edge to negate a glitch or downgrade a critical glitch. ~*~ Critiques? |
It seems complicated.
How's this? When rolling for spellcasting or conjuration (choose one when mentor spirit is chosen) you roll an additional 1d6 'fate die'. If the fate die is odd, you suffer additional drain equal to the die result. If the fate die is even, reduce the drain by the amount rolled.
I thought of this one while I was studying in the library:
Scholar:
The scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; in a way, he considers himself custodian of his accumulated knowledge, safeguarding it as the most precious thing in his possession. Such is his thirst for more knowledge, which he hungers for as most people desire water or food, that he is willing to give up necessities
Advantages: +2 dice for Detection spells, +2 dice for spirit type associated with Detection in magical tradition, and may default on knowledge skills without the negative modifier or have the karma cost for gaining knowledge skills halved.
Disadvantages: When first given or gaining access to a new source of information (such as a corporate mainframe), the character must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test or he will simply sit down and start absorbing knowledge and not stop until he is done (or the corp security carries him away in cuffs...). The character can make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stop reading/learning after a while to take care of needs like escape, eating, drinking or sleeping; the interval between those tests should be determined by the GM based on how absorbing/fascinating the information is and how pressing the need is.
Scholar:
The scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; in a way, he considers himself custodian of his accumulated knowledge, safeguarding it as the most precious thing in his possession. Such is his thirst for more knowledge, which he hungers for as most people desire water or food, that he is willing to give up necessities
Advantages: +2 dice for Detection spells, +2 dice for spirit type associated with Detection in magical tradition, and may default on knowledge skills without the negative modifier or have the karma cost for gaining knowledge skills halved.
Disadvantages: When first given or gaining access to a new source of information (such as a corporate mainframe), the character must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test or he will simply sit down and start absorbing knowledge and not stop until he is done (or the corp security carries him away in cuffs...). The character can make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stop reading/learning after a while to take care of needs like escape, eating, drinking or sleeping; the interval between those tests should be determined by the GM based on how absorbing/fascinating the information is and how pressing the need is.
| QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Feb 5 2007, 04:26 PM) |
| I thought of this one while I was studying in the library: Scholar: The scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; in a way, he considers himself custodian of his accumulated knowledge, safeguarding it as the most precious thing in his possession. Such is his thirst for more knowledge, which he hungers for as most people desire water or food, that he is willing to give up necessities Advantages: +2 dice for Detection spells, +2 dice for spirit type associated with Detection in magical tradition, and may default on knowledge skills without the negative modifier or have the karma cost for gaining knowledge skills halved. Disadvantages: When first given or gaining access to a new source of information (such as a corporate mainframe), the character must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test or he will simply sit down and start absorbing knowledge and not stop until he is done (or the corp security carries him away in cuffs...). The character can make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stop reading/learning after a while to take care of needs like escape, eating, drinking or sleeping; the interval between those tests should be determined by the GM based on how absorbing/fascinating the information is and how pressing the need is. |
1) I like the concept. It's cool.
2) The advantages seem a tad high. Why not just leave at +2 Detection spells and +2 dice for spirit-types? I know the other advantages aren't really overpowered, they just seem a little over-the-top.
3) Players will always insist that what they are doing "is a pressing need" and the fascination shouldn't apply. If the GM tries to enforce anything otherwise, he's likely to be regarded as unfair.
4) The magician has an easy way out of the restriction so long as he's got another teammate nearby, which he almost always does in a Shadowrun game. He just needs to have another character physically drag the guy off (or create "a more pressing need"), bypassing this restriction completely as long as there are other members in the party.
5) You may have situations where a Scholar Magician's teammates actually try to keep him away from new sources of information and the player himself may act in such a way that he might as well have taken a phobia to books, libraries, and computers. While this might be good strategic play, it's a little counter to the theme. In fact, applying a drawback to a knowledge-based character whenever he does anything in according to his theme (getting new information) seems like a bad idea. I think it might be better just to give him an actual "Information addiction", thus setting the drawback in when he DOESN'T have new sources of information.
6) You then have to deal with players who will insist that their drawback should be an advantage and will want to know, precisely, what intelligence and paydata they've discovered while fueling their addiction. That's not a problem and a GM could deal with it, but it would be annoying for some GMs if this happened every single time the character gains access to a source of information.
7) Are contacts a new source of information? What about non-contact NPCs? What about Mr Johnson?
| QUOTE (cetiah @ Feb 5 2007, 04:33 PM) |
| 1) I like the concept. It's cool. 2) The advantages seem a tad high. Why not just leave at +2 Detection spells and +2 dice for spirit-types? I know the other advantages aren't really overpowered, they just seem a little over-the-top. 3) Players will always insist that what they are doing "is a pressing need" and the fascination shouldn't apply. If the GM tries to enforce anything otherwise, he's likely to be regarded as unfair. 4) The magician has an easy way out of the restriction so long as he's got another teammate nearby, which he almost always does in a Shadowrun game. He just needs to have another character physically drag the guy off (or create "a more pressing need"), bypassing this restriction completely as long as there are other members in the party. 5) You may have situations where a Scholar Magician's teammates actually try to keep him away from new sources of information and the player himself may act in such a way that he might as well have taken a phobia to books, libraries, and computers. While this might be good strategic play, it's a little counter to the theme. In fact, applying a drawback to a knowledge-based character whenever he does anything in according to his theme (getting new information) seems like a bad idea. I think it might be better just to give him an actual "Information addiction", thus setting the drawback in when he DOESN'T have new sources of information. 6) You then have to deal with players who will insist that their drawback should be an advantage and will want to know, precisely, what intelligence and paydata they've discovered while fueling their addiction. That's not a problem and a GM could deal with it, but it would be annoying for some GMs if this happened every single time the character gains access to a source of information. 7) Are contacts a new source of information? What about non-contact NPCs? What about Mr Johnson? |
1) Thank you.
2) It seems appropriate; I know people here at school (that I partially based this upon) that can only be described as "information sponges" and I was trying to figure out a way of representing that in gameplay terms.
3) Oh, I don't know; what I had in mind was what frequently happens to me: I sit down with a book or a wikipedia article or something along those lines and get absorbed in it and *bam!* next thing I know it's two hours later. When I get into that state it's always "well, I'll handle it at the end of the chapter/page/section..."
4) True; perhaps that should be handled as an extended test... humm Scholar's partner's Willpower + Strength (if trying to drag him out of there) or Logic (if trying to reason with him) (Scholar's Willpower x Logic, 30 seconds)
5) *evil grin* hows this for the disadvantage section?
Disadvantages: When first given or gaining access to a new source of information (such as a corporate mainframe), the character must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test or he will simply sit down and start absorbing knowledge and not stop until he is done (or the corp security carries him away in cuffs...). The character can make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stop reading/learning after a while to take care of needs like escape, eating, drinking or sleeping; the interval between those tests should be determined by the GM based on how absorbing/fascinating the information is and how pressing the need is.
Additionally, the character is treated as having the Quality: Addiction: Moderate: Information; this quality may not be bought off with Karma or resolved thorough gameplay (it is an innate aspect of his personality); it functions in game terms as the character having to spend 1d6 Karma in Knowledge skills per week.
6) They have to consider the amount of time that they were hooked up to the new system... hummm...
For computer databases, run a Data Search + Logic Extended Test (5 minutes; limit to amount of time hooked up to the system); # of hits x 100 =
value of paydata (can be increased to x 1000 for extremely secure systems, but a negative modifier for the test should apply to account for the security of the system)For dead-tree libraries, applicable knowledge skill + linked attribute Extended test (30 minutes, limit to amount of time in library), same value as above.
7) I suppose, but imagine the negotiation tests he'd have to do to get any good info out of them... so I'm guessing not--unless the NPC is an instructor or a professor.
| QUOTE (bibliophile20) |
| 1) Thank you. 2) It seems appropriate; I know people here at school (that I partially based this upon) that can only be described as "information sponges" and I was trying to figure out a way of representing that in gameplay terms. 3) Oh, I don't know; what I had in mind was what frequently happens to me: I sit down with a book or a wikipedia article or something along those lines and get absorbed in it and *bam!* next thing I know it's two hours later. When I get into that state it's always "well, I'll handle it at the end of the chapter/page/section..." 4) True; perhaps that should be handled as an extended test... humm Scholar's partner's Willpower + Strength (if trying to drag him out of there) or Logic (if trying to reason with him) (Scholar's Willpower x Logic, 30 seconds) 5) *evil grin* hows this for the disadvantage section? Disadvantages: When first given or gaining access to a new source of information (such as a corporate mainframe), the character must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test or he will simply sit down and start absorbing knowledge and not stop until he is done (or the corp security carries him away in cuffs...). The character can make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stop reading/learning after a while to take care of needs like escape, eating, drinking or sleeping; the interval between those tests should be determined by the GM based on how absorbing/fascinating the information is and how pressing the need is. Additionally, the character is treated as having the Quality: Addiction: Moderate: Information; this quality may not be bought off with Karma or resolved thorough gameplay (it is an innate aspect of his personality); it functions in game terms as the character having to spend 1d6 Karma in Knowledge skills per week. 6) They have to consider the amount of time that they were hooked up to the new system... hummm... For computer databases, run a Data Search + Logic Extended Test (5 minutes; amount of time hooked up to the system); # of hits x 100 = value of paydata (can be increased to x 1000 for extremely secure systems, but a negative modifier for the test should apply to account for the security of the system)For dead-tree libraries, applicable knowledge skill + linked attribute Extended test (30 minutes, amount of time in library), same as above. 7) I suppose, but imagine the negotiation tests he'd have to do to get any good info out of them... so I'm guessing not--unless the NPC is an instructor or a professor. |
2) and 5) I still think the advantages (and now the disadvantages) are pretty over-the-top compared to some other mentor spirits in the book.
2) In your comparison to real-world people that you know, I'm afraid you might be ignoring other aspects of character generation that work to reflect such characters. It seems wrong to try to make any SINGLE quality that covers a whole character concept even with something as theme-based as mentor spirits.
3) Yes, but even then it's more-or-less voluntary. You wouldn't do that for something REALLY important. Also, you're taking control away from the player. There are already game effects that work similiar to what you are describing (and I am objecting to), but those are usually temporary effects and don't (usually) restrict the players actions like this does.
4), 5), and 6) I don't think adding more rules is the answer. If you have to add more rules on top of what you already have, that already makes it the most complicated non-threat mentor spirit in the game.
True enough. Any suggestions/reworkings to save the concept?
| QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Feb 5 2007, 04:26 PM) |
| I thought of this one while I was studying in the library: Scholar: The scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; in a way, he considers himself custodian of his accumulated knowledge, safeguarding it as the most precious thing in his possession. Such is his thirst for more knowledge, which he hungers for as most people desire water or food, that he is willing to give up necessities Advantages: +2 dice for Detection spells, +2 dice for spirit type associated with Detection in magical tradition, and may default on knowledge skills without the negative modifier or have the karma cost for gaining knowledge skills halved. Disadvantages: When first given or gaining access to a new source of information (such as a corporate mainframe), the character must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test or he will simply sit down and start absorbing knowledge and not stop until he is done (or the corp security carries him away in cuffs...). The character can make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to stop reading/learning after a while to take care of needs like escape, eating, drinking or sleeping; the interval between those tests should be determined by the GM based on how absorbing/fascinating the information is and how pressing the need is. |
I don't like just playing critic all the time, so how about I take a crack at it and you can tell me what you think. Fair's fair, right.
Scholar
Scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; he is the custodian of all accumulated knowledge and the patron to magical researchers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Hermetic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the testing of logical reasoning as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and distrust intangible resources like intuition, faith, and superstition.
Advantages: +2 for Detection spells and Data Search skill tests.
Disadvantages: The character recieves -1 dice for all Assensing tests.
Recommended Qualities: Over the course of their careers, many Scholar Mages may acquire an ever-increasing addiction for new information, spells, and paydata.
I LOVE knowledge-based characters by the way, and Shadowrun is the only RPG where that character concept really shines.
| QUOTE |
| Lady Luck: Pros: Chance favors the bold: On any Sorcery or Conjuring test, the character rolls a separate 1d6; on a roll of 1, the character has 1.5x the normal drain (round up); on a roll of 2 or 3, the character has normal drain, and on a roll of 4-6, they have 1/2 the normal drain (round up). (This is so the character has an even chance of getting reduced Drain, encouraging him to take risks) Cons: Chance is also fickle; characters must spend 2 points of Edge to negate a glitch or downgrade a critical glitch. |
Weak! Totally weak. Forget Drain. Luck is not about Drain. Luck is about Succeeding or Failing! Drain covers neither.
What risk does it encourage?? Casting higher force spells? Overcasting? So what! The only spells that have consistently good payoff for overcasting are combat spells. The reality is, there just aren't that many situations where overcasting is that important, because you won't be getting enough successes for it to matter. Sorry!
| QUOTE |
| I was thinking that they re-roll 6's, but any glitch is a critical. That way they can either get really lucky, or royally screwed depending on the Lady's whim. |
I like this idea much more. Apply this to all magic skill tests.
| QUOTE (cetiah) |
| Scholar Scholar is the repository of vast wells of knowledge and knows many things; he is the custodian of all accumulated knowledge and the patron to magical researchers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Hermetic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the testing of logical reasoning as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and distrust intangible resources like intuition, faith, and superstition. Advantages: +2 for Detection spells and Data Search skill tests. Disadvantages: The character recieves -1 dice for all Assensing tests. Recommended Qualities: Over the course of their careers, many Scholar Mages may acquire an ever-increasing addiction for new information, spells, and paydata. |
Hmmm... I like it, but...
1) Assensing is a means of gathering information, so perhaps shift that to the advantages section and give it a bonus die instead? *thoughtful*
2) And there needs to be some way of having the knowledge addiction/growth in there...
Hows this:
Advantages: +2 for Detection spells, +1 for Assensing tests, +1 for Knowledge skill tests
Disadvantages: Upon Karma reward at end of mission, roll 1d6; resulting number is amount of Karma reserved for gaining/advancing Knowledge skills.
| QUOTE (2bit) | ||
| Weak! Totally weak. Forget Drain. Luck is not about Drain. Luck is about Succeeding or Failing! Drain covers neither. What risk does it encourage?? Casting higher force spells? Overcasting? So what! The only spells that have consistently good payoff for overcasting are combat spells. The reality is, there just aren't that many situations where overcasting is that important, because you won't be getting enough successes for it to matter. Sorry!
I like this idea much more. Apply this to all magic skill tests. |
I thank you for you polite tone [ /sarcasm] but your point is well taken.
How's this?
Lady Luck
Advantages: For any Magic tests (Sorcery, Conjuring, Assensing, etc) characters may reroll any 6's rolled.
Disadvantages: All glitches on Magic tests are considered critical, and characters must spend 2 points of Edge to downgrade them to just a glitch.
| QUOTE (bibliophile20) |
| Advantages: +2 for Detection spells, +1 for Assensing tests, +1 for Knowledge skill tests Disadvantages: Upon Karma reward at end of mission, roll 1d6; resulting number is amount of Karma reserved for gaining/advancing Knowledge skills. |
1) Assensing was a tough call. I just wanted to go with something that made him DIFFERENT than other magicians. Originally, it was going to be -2 Perception but I hate perception penalties even though I think it might make sense here. Really, a penalty to all intuition tests made sense to me but that's over the top. The words "perception" and "intuition" were mulling in my head when it occured to me that assensing is nothing more than intuitive perception and I don't really see scientist-types and scholar-types reading auras and such, do you? Then again, I don't know if I see them casting runes either but nevertheless, that was the general idea I was going for: Detection Spells are favored among magicians of the Scholar mentor spirit while using spirits and astral perception are considered less rational and reliable. It's not hard data, but prone to interpretation.
Because assensing is an excluive ability to magicians, and should therefore be considered a benefit to the magician quality, I didn't want to set a penalty on the player's inherent benefit. That's why I lowered it from -2 Assensing to -1. This way the player can still assense if its important to him, but it's enough of a penalty to encourage development in other areas.
I know it's a stretch, but like I said it was a tough call. I didn't want to use the addiction thing because a) I find those "resist against X or do this" drawbacks to be cheesy and b) data addictions can already be worked within the character generation rules. There's no reason to say ALL scholar magicians are information junkies, when I think most characters may take at least a Mild addiction anyway when they see it as "recommended". The mild addiction to information pays for the scholar mentor spirit - a tradeoff that works pretty nicely and complements eachother in this case, I think.
2) I don't have my books with me. Isn't there already a mentor spirit that adds to knowledge tests?
3) As a player, I would skip over any character design that forced me to spend my Karma in specific areas; especially areas other than initiation. I like the general idea of it and said "Cool!" right away, but then I thought about how my players would react and I realised I would never get to see this in actual play as a PC.
4) I think most mentor spirits add +2 to either spellcasting or summoning (but not both) and +2 to one skill test. I think there might be one or two exceptions, but that seemed to be the norm. I could be wrong. I don't have my books on me. I'm not saying you HAVE to do it this way, but it's a good starting baseline.
Agree? Disagree?
| QUOTE (cetiah) | ||
1) Assensing was a tough call. I just wanted to go with something that made him DIFFERENT than other magicians. Originally, it was going to be -2 Perception but I hate perception penalties even though I think it might make sense here. Really, a penalty to all intuition tests made sense to me but that's over the top. The words "perception" and "intuition" were mulling in my head when it occured to me that assensing is nothing more than intuitive perception and I don't really see scientist-types and scholar-types reading auras and such, do you? Then again, I don't know if I see them casting runes either but nevertheless, that was the general idea I was going for: Detection Spells are favored among magicians of the Scholar mentor spirit while using spirits and astral perception are considered less rational and reliable. It's not hard data, but prone to interpretation. Because assensing is an excluive ability to magicians, and should therefore be considered a benefit to the magician quality, I didn't want to set a penalty on the player's inherent benefit. That's why I lowered it from -2 Assensing to -1. This way the player can still assense if its important to him, but it's enough of a penalty to encourage development in other areas. I know it's a stretch, but like I said it was a tough call. I didn't want to use the addiction thing because a) I find those "resist against X or do this" drawbacks to be cheesy and b) data addictions can already be worked within the character generation rules. There's no reason to say ALL scholar magicians are information junkies, when I think most characters may take at least a Mild addiction anyway when they see it as "recommended". The mild addiction to information pays for the scholar mentor spirit - a tradeoff that works pretty nicely and complements eachother in this case, I think. 2) I don't have my books with me. Isn't there already a mentor spirit that adds to knowledge tests? 3) As a player, I would skip over any character design that forced me to spend my Karma in specific areas; especially areas other than initiation. I like the general idea of it and said "Cool!" right away, but then I thought about how my players would react and I realised I would never get to see this in actual play as a PC. 4) I think most mentor spirits add +2 to either spellcasting or summoning (but not both) and +2 to one skill test. I think there might be one or two exceptions, but that seemed to be the norm. I could be wrong. I don't have my books on me. I'm not saying you HAVE to do it this way, but it's a good starting baseline. Agree? Disagree? |
1) Point taken.
2) Nope.
3) Again, point taken.
4) I looked them over; they all pretty much have have, as you said, two advantages.
Hmmm... I'm going to have another peek at that Artificer mentor spirit in SM...
Here's the artificer (SM, pg 180):
Artificer
Artificer is the inventor, craftsman, and smith; the true
symbol of humanity’s ingenuity and resourcefulness. His tools,
and those of his followers, empower mankind to conquer all
obstacles. He is not always as skilled at understanding people
as he is at analyzing the world, however, which may make him
and his followers difficult to deal with or easy to manipulate.
Mythical figures such as Hephaestus and Daedalus are common
interpretations of Artificer, as are the Celtic Goibhniu
and Norse Weland.
Advantages: +2 dice for Manipulation spells, +2 dice to
Enchanting Tests.
Disadvantages: Artificer magicians are easily distracted
by new and unusual finds or a persistent problem. When
faced with something he has never seen before or a problem
he can not easily solve, the Artificer magician must make a
Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist examining the situation
at length. The magician will not put his life in danger
just to examine a new device, but he will take the next safe
opportunity to do so.
Hows this?
Advantages: +2 for Detection spells, +2 for Knowledge skill tests
Disadvantages: Scholar magicians are easily distracted by new and/or unusual knowledge. When faced with something he has never seen before the Scholar magician must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist examining the information/news/tome/etc at length. The magician will not put his life in danger
just to learn/study the information, but he will take the next safe opportunity to do so.
~*~
So, kinda like how Bear and Shark both go berserk, but with slight differences between the two, i.e. Bear when he's wounded and Shark when he or his opponent is wounded, so these two, both of whom are archetypes of portions of human nature, will act somewhat similarly.
Does that work?
| QUOTE (bibliophile20) |
| So, kinda like how Bear and Shark both go berserk, but with slight differences between the two, i.e. Bear when he's wounded and Shark when he or his opponent is wounded, so these two, both of whom are archetypes of portions of human nature, will act somewhat similarly. Does that work? |
Yeah, that sounds like a good analogy.
Sorry for my tone, but I think lady luck is a great example of a modern totem that deserves publication. I think the reroll 6's/critical glitch is a good point to start playtesting on. There may be a variation on the rule that works better. . .
Awesomeness; I think we're finished with the Scholar now--time to put the finished product up at the top of the page.
Just for fun.
Philosopher:
Philosopher is the keeper of dreams and revealer of secrets; he is the custodian of all interpreted conceptual designs and the patron to seers, visionaries, and dreamers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Shamanic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the interpretation of imagery and impressions as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and as a means toward understanding the world beyond the limitations imposed by merely collecting facts, files, names, and numbers.
Advantages: +2 for Summoning spirits associated with Detection, +2 for Assenssing Tests
Disadvantages: When exposed to new and/or unusual knowledge, Philosopher magicians must seek deeper meanings and patterns, embracing the chaos beneath the order. When faced with something he has never seen before the Scholar must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist evaluating the information/news/tome/etc at length. This evaluation can take the form of artistic expression, meditive contemplation, communion with spirits, new RPG rules on dumpshock forums, or heated debates with other characters. The magician will not put his life in danger just to evaluate the information or express his opinions on it, but he will take the next safe opportunity to do so.
Philosopher:
Philosopher is the keeper of dreams and revealer of secrets; he is the custodian of all interpreted conceptual designs and the patron to seers, visionaries, and dreamers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Shamanic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the interpretation of imagery and impressions as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and as a means toward understanding the world beyond the limitations imposed by merely collecting facts, files, names, and numbers.
Advantages: +2 for Summoning spirits associated with Detection, +2 for Assenssing Tests
Disadvantages: When exposed to new and/or unusual knowledge, Philosopher magicians must seek deeper meanings and patterns, embracing the chaos beneath the order. When faced with something he has never seen before the Scholar must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist evaluating the information/news/tome/etc at length. This evaluation can take the form of artistic expression, meditive contemplation, communion with spirits, new RPG rules on dumpshock forums, or heated debates with other characters. The magician will not put his life in danger just to evaluate the information or express his opinions on it, but he will take the next safe opportunity to do so.
| QUOTE (2bit) |
| Sorry for my tone, but I think lady luck is a great example of a modern totem that deserves publication. I think the reroll 6's/critical glitch is a good point to start playtesting on. There may be a variation on the rule that works better. . . |
Fair enough, but the idea of gambling with drain was: are you going to luck out and maybe just get a light headache... or are you going to literally fry yourself alive from the inside out? Taking the risk qualifies as "bold" in my book.
However, your point about the overcasting bit being primarily applicable in combat is a good one; still, I think that we should find a way for Lady Luck to "favor the bold" with the advantage, yet "be fickle" with the disadvantage.
Hmm...
Wasn't there a "daredevil" quality in the SR3 companion, IIRC? Perhaps adapt from that.
But, regardless, to fit the "theme" of Lady Luck, I think we need to tailor it to the quote "Chance is fickle, but favors the bold."
Oh, and apology accepted; I considered your opinion before to have merit--but the superior "I know better than you!" tone was decidedly not appreciated.
And now I'm late for my gaming group meeting; Ciao!
A possibility I just thought up for lady luck:
Once per session, the player can instead of making a dice pool test, have the Gm flip a coin, and call it in the air. If he's right, the test comes out perfectly, through something like bending down to pick up a penny just as a sniper pulls the trigger. If he's wrong, then the test goes horribly wrong by some event of pure bad luck, like a board cracking in half under him, or his bullet ricocheting off something and hitting him. In this manner, the shaman's life is defined by seemingly impossible tasks completed, and phenominally bad situations from luck.
Once per session, the player can instead of making a dice pool test, have the Gm flip a coin, and call it in the air. If he's right, the test comes out perfectly, through something like bending down to pick up a penny just as a sniper pulls the trigger. If he's wrong, then the test goes horribly wrong by some event of pure bad luck, like a board cracking in half under him, or his bullet ricocheting off something and hitting him. In this manner, the shaman's life is defined by seemingly impossible tasks completed, and phenominally bad situations from luck.
| QUOTE (cetiah @ Feb 5 2007, 06:46 PM) |
| Just for fun. Philosopher: Philosopher is the keeper of dreams and revealer of secrets; he is the custodian of all interpreted conceptual designs and the patron to seers, visionaries, and dreamers. Magicians serving this mentor spirit tend to follow the Shamanic traditions. Although exceptions abound, as a group, they tend to revere the interpretation of imagery and impressions as a form of ritual devotion in its own right, and as a means toward understanding the world beyond the limitations imposed by merely collecting facts, files, names, and numbers. Advantages: +2 for Summoning spirits associated with Detection, +2 for Assenssing Tests Disadvantages: When exposed to new and/or unusual knowledge, Philosopher magicians must seek deeper meanings and patterns, embracing the chaos beneath the order. When faced with something he has never seen before the Scholar must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test to resist evaluating the information/news/tome/etc at length. This evaluation can take the form of artistic expression, meditive contemplation, communion with spirits, new RPG rules on dumpshock forums, or heated debates with other characters. The magician will not put his life in danger just to evaluate the information or express his opinions on it, but he will take the next safe opportunity to do so. |
I like it
The subtle commentary is a nice touch, BTW. I'll add it to the top post in a little bit.
As for other mentor spirit ideas...
A rough writeup of pros/cons and a basic concept; feel free to expand/modify.
Dolphin
Playful and helpful; is known for saving people in need.
Pros: +2 dice for Health Spells, +2 dice for spirits of water or spirits of beasts (choose one)
Cons: Dolphin magicians are constantly playful and rarely serious; they must make a Willpower+Charisma (3) test to stop joking around and take things seriously.
Duck
Understands the value of teamwork.
Pros: +2 dice for Ritual Spellcasting, +2 dice for any Teamwork Tests, +2 dice for spirits of Air or Spirits of Beasts (choose one).
Cons: When working alone, the Duck magician suffers -1 to all actions.
Fox
Clever, sneaky and tricky.
Pros: +2 dice for Illusion spells, +2 dice for Disguise, Infiltration or Shadowing tests (choose one)
Cons: Must make a must make a Willpower +Charisma (3) Test to not immediately flee or seek cover whenever caught in a combat situation. If there is nowhere to flee, then she is forced to fight.
| QUOTE |
| But, regardless, to fit the "theme" of Lady Luck, I think we need to tailor it to the quote "Chance is fickle, but favors the bold." |
So, another possible mechanic might be where the magician wagers something, like a point of their magic attribute, or X number of magic points, to gain extra dice on some kind of test - "risky" tests, as determined by the GM, or sorcery, or any magic test, or 1 magic skill of their choice, etc. So they get extra dice, but if they glitch, they lose the thing they wagered temporarily. If they critical glitch, they lose all of that thing, or maybe automatically fail a crisis of confidence test and must adopt geas equal to the amount of magic lost. Edge can't be used to negate these glitches. The wagered item either returns at a certain rate (1 per hour, day, etc.) or through some other mechanic (1 point every time something lucky happens to them, or as they succeed in risky situations, etc. to represent the return of confidence).
Variations:
1. When attempting a particularly risky or dangerous test, such as disarming a bomb, leaping over a pit of lava, running across a rickety catwalk about to fall, etc. the magician may add any number of dice to their test, up to their Magic attribute. However, if the test results in a glitch, their Magic attribute is temporarily reduced by that amount. Lost magic points return at a rate of 1 per day. If the result is a critical glitch, the magician automatically suffers a crisis of confidence (pg. 30, Street Magic) and must adopt a geas before lost magic points can return. Edge may not be used to offset a glitch rolled in this way.
2 - An Awakened character that follows Lady Luck designates 1 (active/magic/non-combat) skill or skill group which they are particularly lucky in. Any time the character uses that skill, they may choose to add 2 dice to the test to represent Lady Luck's blessing. However, if the test results in a glitch, the character's Magic attribute is temporarily reduced by 1. Magic lost in this way returns at a rate of 1 per day. If a critical glitch occurs, the character automatically suffers a crisis of confidence (pg. 30, Street Magic), cannot receive Lady Luck's blessing, and will not recover any previously lost Magic until they have time to adopt a geas. Edge cannot be used to negate these glitches.
So, I'm not really sure what the bonus should be applicable to: any magic skill, certain spells, any 1 skill of choice. . . I'm also unsure of what wager should be allowed, though I like using Magic as the currency. What I really worry about is whether or not people glitch often enough for it to be a meaningful risk. I also worry that people would wager 6 points of magic all the time, use Edge for extra dice when they can, and reduce their glitch chances significantly. Then when they finally do critical glitch, they just make a new character instead of living with the consequences.
I like the idea, but, as was pointed out earlier, you can't make it too complicated...
hmmmm...
Oooh. I have an idea. Edge=Luck, right? ^_^
Lady Luck
Patron spirit of gamblers and risk takers, Lady Luck is fickle, but favors the bold. Her attentions can be a saving grace or a killing stroke, but there is no way to know, except to trust to chance. Her followers often take outrageous risks in the hope of gaining her favor.
Advantages: In a dangerous situation (i.e. the character and co are outnumbered 2-to-1 or more, are in a deathtrap/ambush, etc), the character gains an additional 2 dice when ever he uses Edge to augment or reroll his dice pool when confronting the situation directly (i.e. attacking the ambushers).
Disadvantages: Characters must spend 2 points of Edge to negate a glitch or to downgrade a critical glitch.
~*~
Critiques?
And I thought of another critter mentor:
Magpie:
Magpie is renown for its intelligence and inquisitive nature.
Advantages: +2 dice for Detection spells, +2 dice for Visual Perception Tests
Disadvantages: Magpie is easily distracted by interesting/intriguing items; Magpie must make a Willpower+Charisma (3) test to avoid taking small interesting objects--books, gems, foci, jewelry--when given the opportunity to do so.
~*~
Critiques?
Oh, and when I was looking through the mentor spirit section in SR4, the Mountain spirit caught my eye, so...
River:
The bringer of life to vast lands, River can be, and is, a terrible destroyer when the power checked by its banks is not respected.
Advantages: +2 dice for water spirits, +2 dice for either Combat or Health spells (choose one)
Disadvantages: River, while languid most of the time, hides a terrible strength beneath the placid surface, ready to come out at the slightest provocation. River must make a Willpower+Charisma(3) test to avoid retaliating/attacking when provoked or disrespected.
hmmmm...
Oooh. I have an idea. Edge=Luck, right? ^_^
Lady Luck
Patron spirit of gamblers and risk takers, Lady Luck is fickle, but favors the bold. Her attentions can be a saving grace or a killing stroke, but there is no way to know, except to trust to chance. Her followers often take outrageous risks in the hope of gaining her favor.
Advantages: In a dangerous situation (i.e. the character and co are outnumbered 2-to-1 or more, are in a deathtrap/ambush, etc), the character gains an additional 2 dice when ever he uses Edge to augment or reroll his dice pool when confronting the situation directly (i.e. attacking the ambushers).
Disadvantages: Characters must spend 2 points of Edge to negate a glitch or to downgrade a critical glitch.
~*~
Critiques?
And I thought of another critter mentor:
Magpie:
Magpie is renown for its intelligence and inquisitive nature.
Advantages: +2 dice for Detection spells, +2 dice for Visual Perception Tests
Disadvantages: Magpie is easily distracted by interesting/intriguing items; Magpie must make a Willpower+Charisma (3) test to avoid taking small interesting objects--books, gems, foci, jewelry--when given the opportunity to do so.
~*~
Critiques?
Oh, and when I was looking through the mentor spirit section in SR4, the Mountain spirit caught my eye, so...
River:
The bringer of life to vast lands, River can be, and is, a terrible destroyer when the power checked by its banks is not respected.
Advantages: +2 dice for water spirits, +2 dice for either Combat or Health spells (choose one)
Disadvantages: River, while languid most of the time, hides a terrible strength beneath the placid surface, ready to come out at the slightest provocation. River must make a Willpower+Charisma(3) test to avoid retaliating/attacking when provoked or disrespected.
I really like that version of Lady Luck.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| I really like that version of Lady Luck. |
Thanks
Does anyone else second the motion?
| QUOTE |
| Lady Luck Patron spirit of gamblers and risk takers, Lady Luck is fickle, but favors the bold. Her attentions can be a saving grace or a killing stroke, but there is no way to know, except to trust to chance. Her followers often take outrageous risks in the hope of gaining her favor. Advantages: In a dangerous situation (i.e. the character and co are outnumbered 2-to-1 or more, are in a deathtrap/ambush, etc), the character gains an additional 2 dice when ever he uses Edge to augment or reroll his dice pool when confronting the situation directly (i.e. attacking the ambushers). Disadvantages: Characters must spend 2 points of Edge to negate a glitch or to downgrade a critical glitch. |
My critique would be that it's not usable often enough (3 limiters, for only a 2 dice bonus, plus an always-on negative quality).
1 - dangerous situation (often for a runner, but open to interpretation)
2 - Edge used (rare)
3 - Direct confrontation (maybe half the number of times edge is used)
The irony of linking the bonus to Edge in this way is that people who can use it the most need it the least, and vice versa.
1 - dangerous situation (often for a runner, but open to interpretation)
2 - Edge used (rare)
3 - Direct confrontation (maybe half the number of times edge is used)
The irony of linking the bonus to Edge in this way is that people who can use it the most need it the least, and vice versa.
| QUOTE (2bit) | ||
My critique would be that it's not usable often enough (3 limiters, for only a 2 dice bonus, plus an always-on negative quality). 1 - dangerous situation (often for a runner, but open to interpretation) 2 - Edge used (rare) 3 - Direct confrontation (maybe half the number of times edge is used) The irony of linking the bonus to Edge in this way is that people who can use it the most need it the least, and vice versa. |
Perhaps if we bumped up the bonus to, say, 3 or maybe even four additional dice, as well as add the dice bonus to any use of Edge (except glitch negation) in combat, would that make it worthwhile?
Also, there are only two limiters: Dangerous situation, and confronting it, i.e. being bold, which is part of the whole idea--if they call upon their mentor spirit in the heat of battle, they'll be neigh unstoppable, but, if they mess up... they're screwed.
Applying bonus dice for the Edge roll has the counter-effect that 2bit mentioned, giving a "better" bonus to characters with lower Edge who will call on this ability less. And you don't want to just give extra Edge points away, do you?
How about this?
Advantages: After spending Edge to augment a roll, a player may decide to spend an additional Edge to further modify the roll. This second roll can only be used to add dice, not to re-roll failures.
Disadvantage: When using Edge, a character glitches if he rolls a number of 1s equal to half his initial dice pool plus half the number of extra edge dice rolled. This limit is calculated prior to using the Lady Luck Advantage to apply a second point of Edge. When the Advantage is used, any 1s rolled contribute to the total count of 1s to determine if a character glitches, but the total limit of 1s needed to glitch is not improved by the dice added from the second Edge point.
Obviously it needs to be cleaned up. It reads kind of clumsy.
How about this?
Advantages: After spending Edge to augment a roll, a player may decide to spend an additional Edge to further modify the roll. This second roll can only be used to add dice, not to re-roll failures.
Disadvantage: When using Edge, a character glitches if he rolls a number of 1s equal to half his initial dice pool plus half the number of extra edge dice rolled. This limit is calculated prior to using the Lady Luck Advantage to apply a second point of Edge. When the Advantage is used, any 1s rolled contribute to the total count of 1s to determine if a character glitches, but the total limit of 1s needed to glitch is not improved by the dice added from the second Edge point.
Obviously it needs to be cleaned up. It reads kind of clumsy.
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