In all of the source books I have been unable to find anything saying what happened to the Crystal Palace (NORAD) in Colorado Spring. That is one heck of a location for a Shadowrun if it is still intact or even if it is partially ruined.

I would be willing to say that it would be still intact, used by UCAS. Or maybe it got infested... who knows... never seen any canon on it.

That brings up something else I am interested in anyone ever seen anything about Area 51?

Denver Boxed set I believe details the fate of Crystal Mountain... the facility was destroyed, scheduled demolition... rumor in the books had it that that was a ruse though, spoke of spirit activity and other somesuch abound...

I thought you were referring to the British one ... and I don't know the answer to that either.

Sorry if I was unclear. I meant the NORAD base in Colorado Springs USA. Is Colorado Springs in UCAS territory or is it in one of the NAN territories? That location would make a fantastic research location for almost anything the way it is hardened and fortified. As for demolition I can't really see it. The place was built to withstand an almost direct hit from an IBM. While you could demo it, the amount of labor and time needed would not really fit into the Shadowrun time line. So if it was not destroyed think of the possibilities for its use in 2063.

Colorado Springs is just south of Denver and consequently just on the edge between the Pueblo Corporate Council, UCAS and CAS. Who got it? By the looks of it, UCAS, but not by more than a couple hundred miles. I don't know how close NORAD is to Colorado Springs. I never heard about anything too exciting happening there, and it really doesn't have much value in and of itself (a big hill in the middle of nowhere with lots of guns... that makes money how?). So I'd assume the UCAS military still holds it. However, it's perfectly feasible that PCC or, even more probable, CAS, made a run at it.

Area 51 is in New Mexico. I don't know the exact coordinates, but I'll assume it's the same latitude as Phoenix. In which case, it's either in the Pueblo Corporate Council or CAS. It looks like it's most likely in the Pueblo Corporate Council; from the map it looks like CAS doesn't go any further west than Texas. Not sure what a bunch of Amerindians would do with alien technology. If Area 51 is on the very southernmost edge of New Mexico, it's now in Atzlan. However, assuming there WAS alien technology there, there's no reason why the PCC or Atzlan would honestly think it's there, and UCAS would pay a LOT of money to keep it out of their hands (by moving it or destroying it). If there's anything, I'd bet its not there any more. Maybe it moved to NORAD?

I am thinking that the crystal Palace would have some rather intrinsic value. If for no other reason than it is probably one of the most secure locations for the military to do research. After all it is a small city sitting beneath a mountain with its own nuclear power plant and facilities to support its population for several years if need be. As to were it is exactly? If you are in Colorado spring you can see the surface facilities for the installation from some parts of the town, even with bad eye sight.

Isn't that the current site of the Denver Data Haven after the place was abandoned soon after the treaty of Denver? Or am I just thinking of some other hugely extensive high-security compound?

~J

With corporate extraterritoriality in place I would imagine that Area 51 might have fallen under the holdings of the Lockheed Corporation, or its 2060 counterpart Lockheed-Martin-Northrup-Grumman (which is actually pretty close to its current status) As such, it is probably pretty high up on the ladder of secure places where corp goons shoot first and shoot again, with solid backing for it from some of its client governments: The PCC, UCAS and CAS (Which undoubtedly contract it for the latest military equipment, most specifically aircraft.) Possibly an ultra secure Delta clinic might be there? (For the latest in rigger upgades?)

The DenverBox Set put Cheyenne Mountain (where NORAD is) in the PCC. There was assorted magical nonsense in it, to go along with that whole three options nonsense.

The Nexus is based at the old Air Force Academy.

Area 51 is at Groom Lake, like BitBasher said. You're thinking of Roswell, which is a useless podunk shithole of a town and is in Aztlan.

Unless it was mentioned subsequently, Lockheed was mentioned in CFS--as just Lockheed (CFS was pre-merger). If one of the Rigger books changed this (Not that I'd be surprised if it did), then so be it.

As far as I know NORAD is currently home to an elite group of USAF commandoes experimenting in wormhole technology. Rumor has it they have had a breakthrough and can travel around using a device called, get this, a Stargate. Now that would be a cool Shadowrun, steel the technology and sell it to the highest bidder.


Sorry, couldn't ressist!

I asked this question about a year ago and from what I remember; when the UCAS had to give up the area to the NAN they sent in a demolitions team to collapse the facility and destroy what they couldn't get out in the short time given to them. After the explosion a number of people said that it should have been bigger and louder. That is all the canon material on it.

So, either not all of the explosives went off or the UCAS proposefully didn't blow it up completely. A number of people detailed what happened in their game, everything from that is the current home of Shadowland to it being a government/corporate secret lab full of nastiness.

Sorry, yes I meant ICBM. As for NORAD I have heard several people say it was demolished but maybe not. I am thinking that UCAS made a show of demoing it but probably only collapsed the entrance tunnel and surface facilities. As using modern explosives to collapse a hardened location designed to withstand near nuke hits while possible would have taken way to long. Especially if you think about all the equipment that would have had to be stripped out first. The power plant alone (which has been rumored to be a nuclear plant) would have taken longer than they had.

I remember Area 51 being mentioned by someone in some sourcebook...but I believe the source was Lone Gunman...basically, the UCAS had to give up the land to PCC or whoever, but nothing was said about anything else. So they moved all the super-secret stuff to bases in the midwest and blew the thing up but good. Ares eventually got ahold of some of the super-secret stuff thanks to some sort of deal, and now Ares has a deal going with the Aliens so they're going to take over the world...or something completely and utterly moronic like that...I think it was in Target: Smuggler Haven...

You know what? I think I'll just dig out my copy of the book and look brb with a better post than this...

EDIT: Cyberpirates, in the Madagascar thread...comspiracy theorist TomTom says that the UCAS moved their Area 51 stuff to somewhere else, and the aliens are related to the chupacabras on Madagascar...and Damien Knight, thanks to Dunkelzahn, made contact with the aliens in exchange for technology...

I think TomTom's just forgotten the rotation...it's "puff puff pass", not "puff puff puff puff, light a new one, puff puff puff puff..."

The Abstruse One

Good old camp USAFA (The Air Force Academy for those who don't know the acronym).

I went to school there, and suprisingly enough, we had more than a few runs set in the Colorado Springs area. As far as canon material goes, the fate of Norad is officially an explosion that most people thought was not quite loud enough or big enough, and the Academy is home to the Nexus. (Every year, we had a cross genre game in which D&D, Star Wars, Shadowrun, and White Wolf characters teamed up to raze the place to the ground, good way to blow off steam).

Some interesting tidbits...

The Academy is built over a huge, sprawling tunnel system. Supposedly, you could get anywhere on the sprawling grounds (I think its like 17 thousand, or maybe 7 thousand acres. Its been a while since my freshman year when i had to know that) from any one major building to another. Lots of stories (none of which I can personally confirm) say that these tunnels are so rarely used that there is a lot of stuff just forgotten about down there, like apartments that seniors used to keep down there. Another unconfirmed report says that there is a way to get to NORAD from Academy grounds (which i doubt) and also that there is an alternate command center down there (which I don't believe at all).

NORAD is not far from Manitou Springs, which was called by many locals "the witchcraft capitol of the west." Manitou is built on the side of Pikes Peak, just about 10 minutes from downtown C Springs, and there is a lot of wilderness around there, including the Garden of the Gods, which I believe is a state park or something (not sure). Regardless, it is smack dab in the middle of the most "haunted" part of Colorado, with Ghost Stories from Pikes Peak, Manitou Springs and the Broadmoor Hotel.

All Air Force bases in C. Springs (Peterson, Falcon, USAFA, and Cheyanne Mountain) share the same the same Medical Group, and I believe that they are working towards combining the Support Groups. Apart from USAFA, they are all assets of Space Command, which is headquarted at Peterson. Almost everyone living east of Academy Boulevard is related in some manner to the military, usually the Air Force, and is quickly becoming one of the prefered places to retire if your in the Military. Also, C. Springs is currently recieving an amazing amount of computer related industry from Silicon Valley. This influx is making the area (originally a pretty small town) roughly the size of Pittsburg, and will probably top a million inhabitiants within 10 to 20 years.

If you look at the map of Denver: City of Shadows, I'm pretty sure they included that entire stretch of I-25 between C Springs and Denver, and I'm willing to bet that the southern part is pretty weird. Unless the military and corporate transplants left the area with the treaty of Denver, you probably have a large group of people living in Pueblo who would rather be part of the CAS or UCAS, or C. Springs may well have turned into a ghost town. All in all, it makes an excellent setting imoho.

Finally, if you ever have a chance to blow up part of the Nexus in your game, add a little extra explosives for me.

You know, there's this nifty thing called a 'search' feature that allows you to check if stuffs come up before. Mind you, granted since the boards moved a bit back you'd have had to search the old boards as well. Anyway, here's an old thread on the matter.The information from the Denver Boxed Set is at the bottom of the first page.

Oh, you mean except for that upgrade thingie a while back right?

It seems that at least part of the crystal palace was turned into the Denver Data haven according to source material. Not bad idea really. Would make it almost impossible to raid the location.

Which source material was that?

The Denver book said the fortress fell into NAN hands, Souix I think, but the Government destroyewd most of it, well at least they set it up for demolition but there are lots of rumors that it didn't go off, or only partially went off and secrets, military, awakened and otherwise are still burried inside.

I thought the Nexus was on part of the old Air Force Academy

Snow Fox... you're right, although the descriptions given in the Denver boxed set and in real life are pretty different.

I have read the info saying its in the old academy but I have also been told that its in Cheyenne mountain according to the source book dealing with pirate havens. It has been pointed out that the Air Force academy lands and Cheyenne Mountain do come close if not connect. So this may be the confusion. Sorry for the earlier confusion.

Nexus = academy, as mentioned in both DBS and SoNA, as well as about half the posts in this thread.