My question is does anyone think that you can have slow sammies? I don't mean that they have slow reaction times but could the concept still work without multiple IPs?

My brother has an untested idea for an unaugmented sammie with max Edge. This allows him to take extra IPs when he needs them, as long as there isn't much of an extended fight.

If you have an assault rifle or sniper rifle, you can pretty much be assured that you will kill one enemy per turn.

If that's enough for your team, that's plenty for your lifestyle.

-Frank

Multiple IPs are valuable in combat, not only for being able to take out more enemies, but also for using extra IPs for full defense or other tactical actions.

They are only one component of a sammie, though, so you can still create plenty of viable (if not optimized) combat-oriented characters without multiple IPs. There are the aforementioned stealth and demolition experts, as well as snipers. Several of the archetypes are combat-oriented but lack multiple IPs - the bounty hunter, enforcer, and sprawl ganger. All three tend to be tanks who depend on durability rather than speed.

But while you can create a combat-oriented character without multiple IPs, such a character will not have the combat versatility of a traditional sammie. You will have things like "the big troll with a shotgun" or " the guy who snipes at people or sneaks up on them" rather than a full-fledged sammie.

well I have some thing that I use that I know will get some people worked up.

Characters will a high enough reaction and skill can make a burst with that skill. This is a burst by either firing a SA weapon quickly or punching quickly or slicing quickly. Basically any kind of melee or unarmed attack (except for grappling) that can be done as a rapid burst in real life can be done. BTW I made melee and unarmed tests (except for grappling) into simple actions.

Instead of additional IPs you get additional simple actions in the same IP. You could get your free action and two to four simple actions. Basically it means that all of your actions are together. Complex actions are still one per turn.

Street Sammies are still able to do the martial artist fast attack thing but they aren't running around as much doing lots of things.

Reduce the cost of the wired reflexes in essence and nuyen for the loss of ability. Increase the reaction bonus to + 2 reaction and have + 1 simple action.

Now everyone has a chance to fight. Sammies are still dangerous.

Also this gets rid of the problem with Increased Reflexes Spell creating Super Mages. Hackers can still do alot without as much game time.

I know that most people would hate this but I would like to see if anyone sees the benefit of this.

I was under the impression that they got rid of the whole "Sammie goes a zillion times before anyone else does" issue after SR2.

There really isn't any reason why all sammie's shoudln't have 3 IPs at chargen. It just gives a huge upperhand in all combat situations and other situations as well. Sure you can do stealth and sniping, but then again 3 IPs will make it even better. Multiple IPs is just too good to pass up. The only archetype I can see not having multiple IPs always handy is a magician due to sustaining the spell. Especially since sustaining foci are the least cost effective for you BP of all the foci you can get at chargen. It is actually much better to wait to buy a sustaining foci if you can. All the other archetypes can get powers(adepts) or cyberware and bioware.

ThatSzechuan:
They did get rid of it, by making it so everyone can get multiple IPs rather easilly. So now it is rather normal to see whole shadowrunner teams all with 3 IPs. Of course barring any roleplaying reasons, other than that I can't think of any reason not to.

In SR4, that's true. I didn't have an initiative enhancer in SR3, and then it worked very well (+1w6 is only 3.5, stastically, so the SR4 toys are far better).

It really depends on the GM. In my games, you wouldn't last long if you got into trouble.

I think a lot of it depends on the makeup of the other team members. Generally, a street samurai requires high Reaction (for intiative and dodging), multiple IPs. high (often augmented) Body with good armor, and lots of dice to sling for close combat, pistols, and at least one other heavier weapon skill. The sammie needs all of this ability because he generally is picking up the slack for other party members with minimal combat skill (hackers, faces, etc.).

If the whole team is more combat-oriented, then it is easier to get away with a niche combat-oriented character with less IPs. But it is far from an optimal build. (By the way, I misremembered. The Enforcer archetype does have Wired Reflexes: 2). And Wired Reflexes: 2 cost barely a smidge over 6 build points, which is very much worth it for +2 Reaction and 2 extra IPs.

I don't think you can have slow sammies, at least realistically. Wired reflexes and combat drugs are cheap enough that even punks off the street can have multiple IPs. The only way you can have a slow sammy is with GM handholding. If the GM doesn't change the foes you're fighting, you're gonna die when everyone is going three times for each of your actions. I'm not entirely clear if you were asking about slowing down the game as a whole, or just having a sam concept character with no IP enhancers on him. If you slow down the game as a whole, I think you can have a slow sammie, because realistically all a sammy does is kill folks. He might be able to do other stuff, but his specialty is dealing damage and taking it. Currently, almost every archetype can get three IPs fairly easily. If you slow everyone down, there's no real change. It just means combat takes longer, as far as in game time, and your average joe, the only person likely to not be able to have 3+ IPs, becomes more of a threat.

To me, yes you can have slow sammies.

Part of it depends on the setting that the GM has in place. Are most of the guards augmented? if not, then the slow sammie has a good chance.

You don't have to take your IP at the first IP, you can delay a bit. That can allow a slow sammie to do the most with his single IP.

Plus, the slow sammie can always keep some combat drugs for emergencies, or talk the mage into casting increased reflexes on him.

A slow sammie won't trip any cyberscanner alarms, nor stand out on the astral plane as a "dark" soul.

Combat tends to take backseat to problem solving and all around sneakiness in my games. Generally, if you have to fight, something has likely gone wrong. That certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't be skilled, but its rarely forced on the players.

Rarely do they face overpowering odds in normal circumstances. At least so far. There was that single vampire that took them all on at once though... XD

...the more I see the title of this thread the more I think of a signature drink served at Club Penumbra...

--the Sloe Samurai

A special concoction sure to relax even the twitchiest wireboy or wiregirl after a hard night in the Barrens.

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