i'm looking for a physad build that doesn't suck. but thus far everything i've seen of 4th just plain sucks. however, that is what i'm stuck with, so i need a 4th character that doesn't suck and i want it to be a physad. so i task you dumpshock folks with some recommendations on quality builds.
Full Version: munch me a physad
Get an ork or troll and get those cool new throwing powers. Nothing like a dude that can pick up a paperclip and do 10p damage.
look at the adept powers in 4th and street magic theres enough to make a decent starting character
What exactly do you want to be able to do? Combat? Face? Hacking? What?
Here, I made this pregen for a con that I'm working at. If you want to take it and maybe mod it, that's fine. If you don't want to take it, that's also fine.
Combat Adept Stats 1
Combat Adept Stats 2
Combat Adept Stats 1
Combat Adept Stats 2
meh, face and hacking aren't really adepts, they are more along the lines of, i want to play a hacker, but everyone hates when the GM and i sit for an hour.
that said, the rules certainly opened up to them, but let's face it adepts are adepts. if you've been in SR long enough, you know they are physical adepts.
basically i'm after a physad that won't get his ass handed to him, but can actually do something else besides. 4th seems to have watered everything down to the point that being good at something leads to the exclusion of all else. well, IMHO anyway.
thanks for the replies, the build above seems practical if nothing stellar.
that said, the rules certainly opened up to them, but let's face it adepts are adepts. if you've been in SR long enough, you know they are physical adepts.
basically i'm after a physad that won't get his ass handed to him, but can actually do something else besides. 4th seems to have watered everything down to the point that being good at something leads to the exclusion of all else. well, IMHO anyway.
thanks for the replies, the build above seems practical if nothing stellar.
The SR4 adept is watered down in combat but powered up in other areas. If you insist on a combat adept, you might be disappointed. The paradigm has changed, if you want to stick to the old ways, things may not be to your taste.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| The SR4 adept is watered down in combat but powered up in other areas. If you insist on a combat adept, you might be disappointed. The paradigm has changed, if you want to stick to the old ways, things may not be to your taste. |
well there's always the troll bow adept of doom, or you can go the throwing route, or the unarmed route. alternately, the gun adept isn't bad either.
generally speaking, you're going to want a lightly cybered adept most likely, though...
Here's one from me. Not quite optimal - he was a number-crunching experiment to see how many dice I could get for a gunslinger, and hard maxing is usually not worth it. But he is quick, fairly durable, has a high Edge, is good at pistols and melee, and can affect things like spirits with his weapon focus. I didn't get all of his gear, just the cyber, bio, and weapon focus, but he has enough left to get all of the essentials - basic docwagon contract, month of lifestyle, good armor, weapons, commlink, fake ID, etc.
So here he is, the elven gunslinger:
So here he is, the elven gunslinger:
[ Spoiler ]
| QUOTE (northern lights) |
| basically i'm after a physad that won't get his ass handed to him, but can actually do something else besides. 4th seems to have watered everything down to the point that being good at something leads to the exclusion of all else. well, IMHO anyway. |
Just to make it explicit, in case it's one of the reasons that contribute to you not liking SR4, all of the statistics and power-levels have been re-calibrated in 4th edition. Whilst in 3rd or earlier you might see someone with a pistols rating of 8, the equivalent character in 4th edition has that rating at 5! Likewise, most humans have attributes of 2, or 3 if it is in their primary area. Check out the stats on a security guard in SR4. He has:
B A R S C I L W
3 3 4 3 3 3 2 3
and Pistols 1
There are big differences between what the numbers in 4th edition mean and what they used to mean. If everyone in the group (especially the GM) isn't very clear on that, then the game is going to get quite skewed. A starting Adpet can be about the level of a Tir Ghost (elite special forces) which is about right, in my opinion.
Hope this helps,
-K.
| QUOTE (Glyph @ Feb 19 2007, 11:07 PM) |
| Here's one from me. Not quite optimal - he was a number-crunching experiment to see how many dice I could get for a gunslinger, and hard maxing is usually not worth it. But he is quick, fairly durable, has a high Edge, is good at pistols and melee, and can affect things like spirits with his weapon focus. I didn't get all of his gear, just the cyber, bio, and weapon focus, but he has enough left to get all of the essentials - basic docwagon contract, month of lifestyle, good armor, weapons, commlink, fake ID, etc. So here he is, the elven gunslinger: [ Spoiler ] |
I get 5.35 essence left there.
So add platelet factories (50k nuyen), and alpha skillwires (8k). Drop the maxed out point of Agi, and you can pay for that easily. Still rolling 23 dice for a smartlinked pistol.
Although honestly, I'd go with machine pistols instead, or SMGs. You can afford to lose a few dice to recoil.
Yeah the starting physad has moved a bit away from retarded combat monster. Leaving that a bit for the sammies.
If that's what you want though there are a number of paths to consider.
For one if you're making more than just a starting character the expansion allowed by initiating will eventually let you surpass most sammy builds.
Secondly you can squeze a lot of juice out of the cyber adept builds. Kind of like what you've been seeing here. Use cyber where it's more efficiant and magic where it's better and have them stack.
However I would strongly advise the use of an adept with a maxed combat sense. First off you can be very hard to hit. With a gymnastic dodge you have an impressive ability to dodge incoming fire until you have the advantage. Or do the sort of thing where you dodge, use an action to attack, and then dedicate your next action to full dodge again.
Also it gives you an incredible edge in surprise situations. There is a fair chance your GM is uncomfortable with the surprise rules, but bring up situations that clearly fit under them. You'll be able to attack freely that first round against a non dodging opponent, quite likely getting yourself a quick kill. You can then gymanstic dodge any return fire and set up again.
If that's what you want though there are a number of paths to consider.
For one if you're making more than just a starting character the expansion allowed by initiating will eventually let you surpass most sammy builds.
Secondly you can squeze a lot of juice out of the cyber adept builds. Kind of like what you've been seeing here. Use cyber where it's more efficiant and magic where it's better and have them stack.
However I would strongly advise the use of an adept with a maxed combat sense. First off you can be very hard to hit. With a gymnastic dodge you have an impressive ability to dodge incoming fire until you have the advantage. Or do the sort of thing where you dodge, use an action to attack, and then dedicate your next action to full dodge again.
Also it gives you an incredible edge in surprise situations. There is a fair chance your GM is uncomfortable with the surprise rules, but bring up situations that clearly fit under them. You'll be able to attack freely that first round against a non dodging opponent, quite likely getting yourself a quick kill. You can then gymanstic dodge any return fire and set up again.
Northern Lights:
I suggest making a Physad that uses a bow. Be a troll with a strength as high as possible. Then by a bow at the same rating his strength is. Make sure to have a high dexterity as well. Boom! a Physad that is more effective than most gun bunnies out there and does so silently. Not only that, but using injector bolts gets even more insane. You can add on more damage or weaken the enemy with terrible toxins or diseases. If you weren't looking for such a broken character maybe you can tell us specifically what kind of physad your looking for.
One last thing, adepts are anything but terrible in SR4. I can't relate them to SR3 because I don't know enough about it. I have only read some of the SR3 fluff books and have a basic understanding of the rules.
I suggest making a Physad that uses a bow. Be a troll with a strength as high as possible. Then by a bow at the same rating his strength is. Make sure to have a high dexterity as well. Boom! a Physad that is more effective than most gun bunnies out there and does so silently. Not only that, but using injector bolts gets even more insane. You can add on more damage or weaken the enemy with terrible toxins or diseases. If you weren't looking for such a broken character maybe you can tell us specifically what kind of physad your looking for.
One last thing, adepts are anything but terrible in SR4. I can't relate them to SR3 because I don't know enough about it. I have only read some of the SR3 fluff books and have a basic understanding of the rules.
| QUOTE (Eleazar) |
| I suggest making a Physad that uses a bow. Be a troll with a strength as high as possible. Then by a bow at the same rating his strength is. |
I believe that the suggested rules for starting character equipment is nothing over a rating 6. I can't give you a page referance at the moment however.
All bows are availability rating 2, there is no availability rating attached to the strength rating of the bow. PG. 306 SR4.
The strength rating is actually adjusted by the tension on the string of the bow. All that is required for a stronger bow is a string that can endure the tensional force applied to it. Of course the frame of the bow should be able to hold together too. That is why the bow costs more as the rating goes up. Since these types of material are rather readily available, the availability does not go up. In fact, most bows would most likely only need a string that can endure the tensional force rather than a new bow frame. This would especially be the case in 2070 with the advancements in alloys and polymers.
EDIT:
I am incorrect, Demerzel is right. There is actually a general rule at the beginning of the gear section on PG. 300 SR4.
"Note that starting characters may not purchase items with
a rating greater than 6 or an Availability greater than 12."
The strength rating is actually adjusted by the tension on the string of the bow. All that is required for a stronger bow is a string that can endure the tensional force applied to it. Of course the frame of the bow should be able to hold together too. That is why the bow costs more as the rating goes up. Since these types of material are rather readily available, the availability does not go up. In fact, most bows would most likely only need a string that can endure the tensional force rather than a new bow frame. This would especially be the case in 2070 with the advancements in alloys and polymers.
EDIT:
I am incorrect, Demerzel is right. There is actually a general rule at the beginning of the gear section on PG. 300 SR4.
"Note that starting characters may not purchase items with
a rating greater than 6 or an Availability greater than 12."
| QUOTE (lorechaser) | ||
I get 5.35 essence left there. So add platelet factories (50k nuyen), and alpha skillwires (8k). Drop the maxed out point of Agi, and you can pay for that easily. Still rolling 23 dice for a smartlinked pistol. Although honestly, I'd go with machine pistols instead, or SMGs. You can afford to lose a few dice to recoil. |
He has the Sensitive System flaw, so the cybereyes cost double of 0.3, or 0.6. Add 0.5 of bioware, then halve it because it is lower, and you have 0.85. It's easy to miss one flaw when you're skimming a character, though.
He can certainly be tweaked. Lowering Agility to a base of 6 and Pistols to a base of 6, along with losing the Aptitude and Exceptional Attribute qualities, will still leave him with 21 dice for pistols (including smartlink) and 16 dice for his weapon focus (including reach), but free up a whopping 73 build points to make the character more well-rounded.
@Sunnyside
You are right about Combat Sense. If you have Magic: 6, I consider Improved Reflexes: 2 and Combat Sense: 6 to be a very good option. Gymnastics dodge is not as good (as Dodge) at melee, though, because it is only used in full defense. It is a still a good option, but only for characters like this one, who have a melee skill to counterattack with.
On the bows: I don't think Strength rating is what they are talking about when they are limiting the rating of starting gear. They are talking about things like medkits and micro-transceivers with a variable rating. The armor jacket has a ballistic armor "rating" of 8, but I'm sure you can have one at char-gen. If you can't get a bow with a rating higher than 6, then the Bounty Hunter archetype is illegal (although considering how often they mess up the rules for archetypes, that is far from definitive proof of my point of view
).
Perhaps you've just proved that an armored jacket is illegal at chargen.
Or perhaps there's a semantic differance in the way they use the term rating in these cases. A piece of equipment that has a ballistic armor rating does not have that as it’s rating it has it as a stat. Some equipment however has stats dependant on rating. In fact the bow has a price dependant on rating (Rating X something), and a damage code dependant on rating.
So for example Hot Dog is not a type of Dog, so perhaps an armor rating is not a type of rating in this sense.
Or perhaps there's a semantic differance in the way they use the term rating in these cases. A piece of equipment that has a ballistic armor rating does not have that as it’s rating it has it as a stat. Some equipment however has stats dependant on rating. In fact the bow has a price dependant on rating (Rating X something), and a damage code dependant on rating.
So for example Hot Dog is not a type of Dog, so perhaps an armor rating is not a type of rating in this sense.
...Although the Bounty Hunter archetype would actually be improved if his bow was reduced to rating: 6. At least then he'd be able to use it (as opposed to the rating: 10 bow for a Strength: 8 character that they have now).
| QUOTE (northern lights) |
| i'm looking for a physad build that doesn't suck. but thus far everything i've seen of 4th just plain sucks. however, that is what i'm stuck with, so i need a 4th character that doesn't suck and i want it to be a physad. so i task you dumpshock folks with some recommendations on quality builds. |
I suggest finding a game you will actually enjoy. If you are so uninspired by an upcoming game that you can't even be bothered to come up with your own character concept, you probably shouldn't play at all.
I don't think it's apathy so much as Edition shock. SR4, at first glance, seems to be way powered down compared to SR3. However, you can actually make some pretty tough and effective characters in it.
It's an extremely different ruleset, though. Some concepts that were viable in SR3 will be weak in SR4, and some concepts such as street samurai and mages need a completely different approach than they did before.
It's an extremely different ruleset, though. Some concepts that were viable in SR3 will be weak in SR4, and some concepts such as street samurai and mages need a completely different approach than they did before.
| QUOTE (Glyph @ Feb 20 2007, 12:00 PM) |
| He has the Sensitive System flaw, so the cybereyes cost double of 0.3, or 0.6. Add 0.5 of bioware, then halve it because it is lower, and you have 0.85. It's easy to miss one flaw when you're skimming a character, though. |
Yeah - I just glazed over both sensitives and rolled them in to one.
So you can go up to .7 bioware, then.
That's another .2 - still enough for Platelet factories, which are very very handy.
Here's a pretty straightforward physical adept with some cheesy bioware added in.
Metatype:
Ork [20 BP]
Physical Attributes:
Body 8 [40 BP]
Agility 5[7] [40 BP]
Reaction 5[6] [40 BP]
Strength 5 [20 BP]
Mental Attributes:
Charisma 2 [10 BP]
Intuition 3 [20 BP]
Logic 1
Willpower 3 [20 BP]
Special Attributes:
Edge 4 [30 BP]
Magic 5->4 [40 BP]
Essence 5.1
Initiative 8[9] IP 1[2]
Positive Qualities:
Adept [5 BP]
Negative Qualities:
Your choice [-35 BP]
Active Skills:
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 6(+2) [26 BP]
Pistols 4 [16 BP]
Athletics Group 4 [40 BP]
Infiltration 4 [16 BP]
Perception 4 [16 BP]
Knowledge Skills:
Your choice [12 ranks]
Adept Powers:
Combat Sense 4 [2.0 PP]
Critical Strike 4 [1.0 PP]
Enhanced Perception 2 [0.5 PP]
Killing Hands [0.5 PP]
Resources:
130k¥ [26 BP]
Bioware:
Synaptic Booster 1 [80k¥]
Muscle Toner 2 [16k¥]
Equipment:
Your choice [34k¥]
Contacts:
Your choice [10 BP]
Bye
Thanee
Metatype:
Ork [20 BP]
Physical Attributes:
Body 8 [40 BP]
Agility 5[7] [40 BP]
Reaction 5[6] [40 BP]
Strength 5 [20 BP]
Mental Attributes:
Charisma 2 [10 BP]
Intuition 3 [20 BP]
Logic 1
Willpower 3 [20 BP]
Special Attributes:
Edge 4 [30 BP]
Magic 5->4 [40 BP]
Essence 5.1
Initiative 8[9] IP 1[2]
Positive Qualities:
Adept [5 BP]
Negative Qualities:
Your choice [-35 BP]
Active Skills:
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 6(+2) [26 BP]
Pistols 4 [16 BP]
Athletics Group 4 [40 BP]
Infiltration 4 [16 BP]
Perception 4 [16 BP]
Knowledge Skills:
Your choice [12 ranks]
Adept Powers:
Combat Sense 4 [2.0 PP]
Critical Strike 4 [1.0 PP]
Enhanced Perception 2 [0.5 PP]
Killing Hands [0.5 PP]
Resources:
130k¥ [26 BP]
Bioware:
Synaptic Booster 1 [80k¥]
Muscle Toner 2 [16k¥]
Equipment:
Your choice [34k¥]
Contacts:
Your choice [10 BP]
Bye
Thanee
That's not bad at all. Personally, I'd drop a perception for Elemental Strike for versatility.
If you want pure munchability consider the Adept Centering initiation technique. At initiation 3 you'd reduce your grade once per action from penalties such as switching targets, recoil, and visibility. This makes your improved ability even nicer since it wont be reduced situationally.
It sounds like a small thing but its not. It means you can snipe in a thunderstorm or is stationary use two weapons to double damage output without as much nasty penalties...
It sounds like a small thing but its not. It means you can snipe in a thunderstorm or is stationary use two weapons to double damage output without as much nasty penalties...
| QUOTE (Mal-2) | ||
I suggest finding a game you will actually enjoy. If you are so uninspired by an upcoming game that you can't even be bothered to come up with your own character concept, you probably shouldn't play at all. |
QFT.
QFT?
Quit Fucking Trolling
OR
Quoted For Truth
Big difference
Quit Fucking Trolling
OR
Quoted For Truth
Big difference
| QUOTE (ThreeGee) |
| QFT? Quit Fucking Trolling OR Quoted For Truth Big difference |
Either one really works - just depends on your interpretation.
But I generally assume that QFT is quoted for truth.
Besides the OP was more of a Troll, that reply would be more feeding the trolls... Much like this post is somewhat feeding the trolls.
| QUOTE (Demerzel) |
| Besides the OP was more of a Troll, that reply would be more feeding the trolls... Much like this post is somewhat feeding the trolls. |
In Shadow Russia, Trolls feed you!
Errr.
I'm really not sure what the OP was. I know that I was pretty annoyed by it, but then the thread actually developed some merit, and I started getting interested.
| QUOTE (ThreeGee) |
| QFT? Quit Fucking Trolling OR Quoted For Truth Big difference |
Quote for Truth
I agree lorechaser. Given the extremely limited time I have to play anything, someone playing in an SR4 game seemingly "just cos it's being run" is kinda annoying.
Still, I might hijack this thread further and ask for opinions on a couple of characters I might be playing in the first table top game I've had the opportunity to play in some time. Any comments are welcomed, but please note these are not min-maxed for absolute efficiency, and are not intended to be so.
Warning: this is rather long.
Still, I might hijack this thread further and ask for opinions on a couple of characters I might be playing in the first table top game I've had the opportunity to play in some time. Any comments are welcomed, but please note these are not min-maxed for absolute efficiency, and are not intended to be so.
Warning: this is rather long.
[ Spoiler ]
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