Hi, I have 4thed but I don't feel it really covers the Year of the Comet stuff. What exactly is SURGE?
Also what is Orichalcum in the context of Shadowrun?
Full Version: SURGE
1: magical mutations, basically. Sudden Unexplained [something] Genetic Expression.
2: A magical alloy of all kinds of crazy stuff. Helps in making foci and suchlike.
~J
2: A magical alloy of all kinds of crazy stuff. Helps in making foci and suchlike.
~J
| QUOTE |
| Hi, I have 4thed but I don't feel it really covers the Year of the Comet stuff. What exactly is SURGE? |
A sudden, unexplained genetic expression - similar to Goblinization, but far less uniform. It affected 1% of all metahumanity, who are known as Changelings. Rules for changelings have not been released in 4th Editio yet.
| QUOTE |
| Also what is Orichalcum in the context of Shadowrun? |
Orichalcum is a magical alloy, primarily used in the construction of foci. See this page for more details, and Street Magic for rules on making and using your own.
Just to add my 2 cents, surge is more the anime option of shadowrun. You want that elf with fox-ears and a tail, SURGE can do that for you. Pink fur? Surge. While disliked by alot of people due to the non-cyberpunk feel it added to the dark-game they see Shadowrun as, alot of people also liked it because it let them fine-tune a character the way they wanted the character to be. Personally, my favorite SURGE effect was to be Dual Natured.
SURGE is hit or miss with me. Some of it was interesting, and yeah, some of it made me wonder why you wouldn't just play BESM.
I can only conclude that people watch very different anime than I do.
Anyway, you couldn't build either Sonic or Tails with SURGE, so there you have it, for good or bad.
Except… maybe a Night One with high Speed, Athletics and Chronic Osteocuspis… they've already got the blue fur…
~J
Anyway, you couldn't build either Sonic or Tails with SURGE, so there you have it, for good or bad.
Except… maybe a Night One with high Speed, Athletics and Chronic Osteocuspis… they've already got the blue fur…
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| I can only conclude that people watch very different anime than I do. |
Anyone who uses anime as a derrogatory term has probably only connected Pokemon and Yugio (or maybe Speed Racer) with the term.
I am curious how many of the anime haters like the old Transformers series and movie.
I have to agree with most that SURGE is just plain absurd. I would never allow it if I were GM. I also like dual-nature, though it SUCKS for non awakened, and doesnt really fit well into the power balance of the game. I actually really hope Fanpro doesnt bring it over and instead just forgets about it. It may sadden some, but it is a sacrifice that must be made.
And as for the anime thing, I love anime/manga/hentai as much as any man, but there is a time and place for everything. There is nothing wrong with an animesque character (Street Samurais will always rock), anyone who tries to create some Naruto physad ought to be taken outside and shot!
PS - I do not dislike Naruto, I just seem to be disgusted by everyone who does like it.
And as for the anime thing, I love anime/manga/hentai as much as any man, but there is a time and place for everything. There is nothing wrong with an animesque character (Street Samurais will always rock), anyone who tries to create some Naruto physad ought to be taken outside and shot!
PS - I do not dislike Naruto, I just seem to be disgusted by everyone who does like it.
So are we going to be modifying the SURGE rules for SR3R? ;P
Possibly. Right after we modify the snowmowbile rules—I don't have anything against them, but since most of the games I'm currently playing in are set in 2055 and we're advancing at a rate of about one month per real-life year, stuff happening in 2061 isn't too high on the priority list.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) | ||
Anyone who uses anime as a derrogatory term has probably only connected Pokemon and Yugio (or maybe Speed Racer) with the term. I am curious how many of the anime haters like the old Transformers series and movie. |
Hmmm, I'm the one that threw the term out there of Anime, and I -like- Surge. It wasn't derogatory. Personally, I find a less-dark game to be quite interesting and since I think the SR3 rules are better than any other futuristic rules, would play Shadowrun if I wanted to run a BESM style game.
On the other hand, SURGE gave a nice bonus to people who didn't want cyberware. Our Cat Adept with extreme athletic and stealth abilities loved her prehensile tail, cat ears, climbing claws, and black fur. Loved even more being cyber-free, since she started the game when we were play testing the new magic system and didn't get to start with as much 'magic' as her Adept would have liked.
I think SURGE is a good thing for the game, but it IS anime-ish.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Feb 21 2007, 09:55 AM) |
| Anyway, you couldn't build either Sonic or Tails with SURGE, so there you have it, for good or bad. Except… maybe a Night One with high Speed, Athletics and Chronic Osteocuspis… they've already got the blue fur… ~J |
One time I rolled vestigial tail as a surge 'flaw' and prehensile tail as a surge 'merit,' though thats as close as I've ever seen to Tails.
Also, I prefer to refer to Chronic Osteocuspis as Terminal Bone-itis.
I figure if my players want surge, they can have it, but it's random. They don't get to pick being the fox-person. They may just end up with octopus suckers on all their limbs.
And also, on the anime point. I dislike MOST anime. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Vampire Hunter D, etc. I like, but usually the story lines and dialogue are crap in most generic anime(including pokemon and Dragon Ball Z). I don't have a problem with SURGE so long as the freakish and ugly mutations are there too, but when every changeling is some sort of fox/cat person, thats where problems occur with the "feel" of SR.
After all, SR is a dark world, it's not all pixies and light. Although, there are pixies... they're just usually the type that steal babies.
And also, on the anime point. I dislike MOST anime. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Vampire Hunter D, etc. I like, but usually the story lines and dialogue are crap in most generic anime(including pokemon and Dragon Ball Z). I don't have a problem with SURGE so long as the freakish and ugly mutations are there too, but when every changeling is some sort of fox/cat person, thats where problems occur with the "feel" of SR.
After all, SR is a dark world, it's not all pixies and light. Although, there are pixies... they're just usually the type that steal babies.
| QUOTE (Crakkerjakk) |
| I figure if my players want surge, they can have it, but it's random. They don't get to pick being the fox-person. They may just end up with octopus suckers on all their limbs. |
The problem with the current SURGE rules is that, according to the color text, a significant number of changeling took on several characteristics of another animal (so a cat-person or an octopus-person or whatever). However, the random table doesn't support that; the vast majority of changelings are going to have a random mix of features. If the chart supported the color text, I'd tend to agree with your ruling.
| QUOTE (nezumi) | ||
The problem with the current SURGE rules is that, according to the color text, a significant number of changeling took on several characteristics of another animal (so a cat-person or an octopus-person or whatever). However, the random table doesn't support that; the vast majority of changelings are going to have a random mix of features. If the chart supported the color text, I'd tend to agree with your ruling. |
I actually did a bit of work on random SURGE characteristics for 4rth Ed a few weeks back: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16410
I don't object to SURGE being randomized during game-play, but definitely not during character creation. And even during game-play, it shouldn't be so much random as 'agreed upon' between GM and Player to enhance the story.
If you're going to randomize SURGE during character creation however, might as well randomize if someone's magical or not as well. Of -course- the only players wanting Surge are wanting a cat/fox style character (or dual natured). But they pay 5BP to be a changeling prior to getting any of those bonuses. You pay almost as much to be a Cat as to be an Adept. Forcing randomization when they pay so many BP is just wrong.
If you're going to randomize SURGE during character creation however, might as well randomize if someone's magical or not as well. Of -course- the only players wanting Surge are wanting a cat/fox style character (or dual natured). But they pay 5BP to be a changeling prior to getting any of those bonuses. You pay almost as much to be a Cat as to be an Adept. Forcing randomization when they pay so many BP is just wrong.
First of all, saying that you dont want SURGE, or anything else for that matter, included in SR4 just because you dont like it is like saying no one should eat Pizza because you dont like it. If you dont like something and you are the GM, then dont use it. Rule #1 - The GM can change any rule he/she wants as long as they are consistant with the rulings.
Second off - To use SURGE you have to have both the GM and Player's permission to modify his character for SURGE. To just up and say 'Ok, your character just grew a tail' when the player doesnt want one will probably piss off the player.
Once you work out that the character is getting SURGE'd then whatever mechanics you both agree on, go ahead.
Second off - To use SURGE you have to have both the GM and Player's permission to modify his character for SURGE. To just up and say 'Ok, your character just grew a tail' when the player doesnt want one will probably piss off the player.
Once you work out that the character is getting SURGE'd then whatever mechanics you both agree on, go ahead.
| QUOTE (Sphynx) |
| Of -course- the only players wanting Surge are wanting a cat/fox style character (or dual natured). |
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| To use SURGE you have to have both the GM and Player's permission to modify his character for SURGE. To just up and say 'Ok, your character just grew a tail' when the player doesnt want one will probably piss off the player. |
I hate SURGE at char gen, it doesn't really work, and I think it never did in 3ed. But I don't mind it happening in game play. It makes for interesting RP, if your GM does it right.
Not every player wants dual-natured. I played a heavily cybered sniper, who when the comet went over, SURGED. He gained dual-natured as one of his 'flaws', boy was that interesting when the ref said 'you start to see spirits and auras, but you can't see anything else really'. The character knew enough about paranormal critters that he thought he was turning into a ghoul. He didn't end up blind, the ref thought that it would entice some interesting RP out of me.
The only reason it pissed me off was I'd just finished drawing him as a caucasian, only to find out that he was now blue.
So had to re-draw...
I and alot of other players I know don't like Otaku (or even Deckers) in the game. Not a reason to remove them from the game. SURGE works best at character creation because it lets the player create the sort of character he or she wants. Too few players want that fox/cat style character to let it bother you if they go that path. You should be no more bothered by seeing 'yet another cat-like changeling' than to see 'yet another Adept/Mage/Samurai/Rigger/Decker'. Variety is good.
Actually the fox/cat etc type characters have actually been an element of the cyberpunk genre for a long time. Granted they were "exotics" which has quite a different feel.
Still the reaction to surge in SR was "first fears and riots, then cultural exploitation." So you might at first feel that a silly anime angle has been added when a character is suddenly some kind of kawaii cat thing, but it all comes back when reality hits them with a tire iron or a Roofie colada in a bar/club they used to frequent.
Still the reaction to surge in SR was "first fears and riots, then cultural exploitation." So you might at first feel that a silly anime angle has been added when a character is suddenly some kind of kawaii cat thing, but it all comes back when reality hits them with a tire iron or a Roofie colada in a bar/club they used to frequent.
Also, if the changeling has too specific of an anime feel to the SURGE, take a lesson from real life where fans of a TV show believe that the actor is the character on the show.
Sure, that exact combo of traits may not result in as much hostility as some, but it also comes with a small army of otaku (both kinds) watching your every move and trying to get in photos with you.
Sure, that exact combo of traits may not result in as much hostility as some, but it also comes with a small army of otaku (both kinds) watching your every move and trying to get in photos with you.
| QUOTE (sunnyside) |
| Actually the fox/cat etc type characters have actually been an element of the cyberpunk genre for a long time. Granted they were "exotics" which has quite a different feel. Still the reaction to surge in SR was "first fears and riots, then cultural exploitation." So you might at first feel that a silly anime angle has been added when a character is suddenly some kind of kawaii cat thing, but it all comes back when reality hits them with a tire iron or a Roofie colada in a bar/club they used to frequent. |
Yup; one of the SURGE characteristics that I added was an insect carapace. How do you think people would react to someone that looks like a hybrid form insect spirit? Even if it does give you extra armor?
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