http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/shadow...n/767656p1.html

A new preview of the game. The art is apparently very much improved now, and the game still sounds good to me (I know, I'm the minority).

But a couple lines that I found very interesting:


Mitch went on to address criticisms about the choice of genre for the game. "Shadowrun started as a pen and paper RPG. I was a big fan, I even wrote [for Shadowrun]. What most people don't realize was that it was also a boardgame, a collectible card game, even an action figure game. Not much story or RPG there. Now it's an FPS. It's like, 'What's the big deal?'"



Elves have a large magic gauge and incredible speed but are paper-thin. Dwarves can drain magic power from other players and objects, but are more limited in their abilities. Trolls have a unique defense ability and super-strength, but are as slow as molasses and deficient in magic. Finally, humans are the typical well-balanced type that doesn't really have any noteworthy strengths or weaknesses. A player can also augment their character (and perhaps make up for deficiencies innate to their class) through purchasable spells and tech upgrades. However, when you install tech on your character, it leaves you with less room for magic power, and vice-versa.

Lore - I am with you in support of the FPS. I will admit that I am a new SR PnP player, but I also love FPS action. To me, I see it as a blend of two great things - kind of like taking oreos and putting them in ice cream. In any case, I can't wait for the game to come out and can see myself playing this one a lot.

I don't have a problem with FPS games, per se. I have a problem with using Shadowrun as a source when all the huge amount of background material is going to be used for is as justification for the one or two slight tweaks they're implementing from unreal/doom/farcry/etc.

As to the, "Shadowrun hasn't always been a PRG" argument, see that thing, waving in the breeze up there? That's the bullshit flag. While the statement may be technically true, the "big deal" is that for a lot of folks, this will be the first time they encounter shadowrun, and it would be nice if they got more of an idea of what the game is actually like, as opposed to a shooter that will probably be popular for maybe 6 months, tops.

It's great that the game inspired Fragmintz to come check out the game and Dumpshock, and as much as I would love for his experience to be the rule, I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be the exception instead.

I wonder how many people play their PnP games like shooters.

Not many—the lag is atrocious, and clipping can be a big problem on some servers.

~J

Regardless, the statement is almost irrelevant. If you visit the Shadowrun forums, very few people are complaining that the game isn't an RPG. Overall, the single most common complaint is that it simply isn't Shadowrun. In Shadowrun, elves don't regenerate, dwarves don't 'eat' magic, cyberware uses essence whether it's turned on or off, and the 'resurrection' spell is restricted to Karl Kombatmage.

Should you want to argue that the game should be an RPG, the initial statement still doesn't stand. Yes, Shadowrun has been a card game, a collectibles game and a tactical table game. However, of all those games, which continues selling almost twenty years later? It seems to me that if you're trying to successfully use a franchise, it would be in your best interest to use what made the franchise succeed and, if possible, avoid the avenues in which the franchise failed. Just a thought...

still no dwarf screenies...

A Shadowrun FPS made by people who want to be true to Shadowrun would be great. Unfortunatly, this is not the case and they've failed to implement many of the mechanics that make Shadowrun unique.

Decking/Hacking? No.
Astral Space? No.
Drain? No.

It would not be trivial to implement these things, but it would not be difficult, either. FPS games already have everything necessary to do Astral Space well. All you have to do is combine invisibility and a visual filter with toggling off collision detection and increasing a movement multiplier.

Hacking's not impossible, either. Just look at the Half-Life 2 mod Dystopia, which is so much drawn from Shadowruns that they call them Cyberdecks.

What they do for Dystopia hacking is they just build a "Cyber world" somewhere off the "meat world" normal plane, give it it's own rules of physics (possibly governed by the specific unit type, which is a hacker-body), and when you "use" a cyberterminal, you spawn a hacker-body in the cyber-world and take control of it, but the game still tracks your meatbod's status.

It's possible. Think Thief. But I'm fairly certain it ain't gonna happen in any form. Near as I can tell, the game has no reason to be called Shadowrun. You could say that the trolls are alien monsters, and that the elves are gray skinned psionicists, etc, etc with all the other nifty tricks they are including in the game, to make the game mechanically the same. I see nothing Shadowrun-esque about the game. Granted, it's not out yet. If someone I know happens to own it, I will try it out and hope that I'm wrong about how shallow the influence of the Sixth World is gonna be. But I really don't expect to be wrong. I mean, rezzing teamates and gliding? So what? There's nothing innovative, hell, Prey had a better thing going for it with the whole portal thing, and after playing the demo of that I was unimpressed. I would really like to be wrong, because a great Shadowrun game would bring players in droves, and that is a Good Thing. However, I'm betting it's going to be a mediocre success at best, and is far more likely to barely break even. And the worst part is, because of that failure, no one is going to want to make a shadowrun RPG, MMO, or hell, even an adventure game or RTS. Even if it does somehow succeed, it's just going to result in a similar, banal, sequel FPS, because the game industry don't fix what ain't broke.

Bleah. My complaint with the Shadowrun game is that it could have been so much more. It's like buying the Alien's vs. Predator license and making a rhythm based DDR style game out of it. It's a poor fit, and only includes one tiny sliver of the world that is Shadowrun, and even then, not anywhere near a faithful sliver.

Perfect Dark on the Nintendo 64 did include that "Hacker Central" scenario. It was a multiplayer scenario with the basic play:

1. Find the data reader
2. Find the terminal
3. Survive for 60 seconds as the reader copies from the terminal

So just a more-complicated CtF, really. But there could be other uses for hacking/decking in FPSes. Imagine a stage with mounted cameras (like in Goldeneye), or card-key doors. The hacker could take over the cameras and use them for recon, or remotely unlock doors for his teammates without them having to find a key - some may not even have normal keys. And what if they could commandeer weapon emplacements? Or control the amount of lighting in indoor stages?

Then you have the actual problem of how it'd play. Maybe a sort of puzzle minigame...

Anyone else wish they would just release some more stuff on 360? I've got a pile of money I want to hand microsoft, I just need them to bring some more stuff out.

Im willing to deal with the bending and even breaking of cannon in this case for a simple reason: It's more than likely going to net us some new players, and get the Shadowrun name some exposure.

I'm still harboring the hope that someday I'll sit down to play a Shadowrun action MMORPG.

Hyz has the right of it.

Keep in mind, this is a 360 game. Team cooperation is a nice idea, but is probably fairly unlikely if you're playing on xbox live with anyone but people you know.

Even if pubbies don't want to take orders, a hacker could still help them out.

Rerouting enemy traffic to have to go the long way around.

Blanking everybody's HUD camera display.

Blanking out the sec cameras.

Turning the enemy's turrets to target their own team.

Possessing the enemy's turret and waiting for a prime shot.


Stuff like that that would still contribute to victory.


Or do it like Dystopia does, and make the Matrix missions a vital component of overall victory - you literally cannot proceed in some Dystopia missions unless you achieve hacking objectives, and at the bare minimum it'll require a heavy assault on the front doors in lieu of a good hacking run.

Yeah, it's do-able. You think it's likely?

It's called Dystopia. Not only is it do-able, it's been done, by a group that's not being paid for their time or effort or expertise.

I'm talking about the Shadowrun FPS. Can one mod 360 games? I'm not too clear on the capabilities of the next gen consoles.

Sorry for the double post, but I checked out the dystopia trailer, and that matrix section looked kick ass. A little more twitchy than I would prefer in a shadowrun-esque game, but the layout just looked... right.

I'm not suggesting modding a 360 game, I'm suggesting they do it right to start with.

Well, yeah, then I'm on board with that. My main complaint has always been that the current game looks like it's going to be crap, not that it can't be done.

Ok, I admit it. I was wrong. My lack of eperience (or desire to be experienced) with FPSes steered me wrong.

Yes. They changed the part that was easy to change, the part that has zero effect on the actual game mechanics or development. The part that probably took less than an afternoon to re-write.

It still stands that the core game functionality has several glaring canon violations of established Shadowrun world mechanics. Teleportation, resurrection, etc. It's very clearly a game engine that they developed first and stuck the Shadowrun name on later, merely because they already owned the license.

It's also more or less two fire teams going after each other pretty much in the open. No covert ops elements to speak of, no information gathering. No actual shadowruns, really. If it was marketed as "Shadowrun: The Desert Wars" or "Shadowrun: Urban Brawl" with the game set in one of the setting's media-run combat gameshows, it might have been slightly more palatable.


-karma

I wonder if there is any chance MS will play nice with the mod community.

Once you have a crappy retarded shadowrun FPS out it shouldn't be overly hard to mod it into something awsome. I mean if half life can spawn counterstrike think of the potential this has.

Very unlikely, simply by virtue of the "Console/GPC interoperability" angle.

~J

FASA has explicitly said it will not be open to modding.

I missed that announcement. Where'd they say that?

Does any of this matter? Whether this is true to canon or not is irrelevant. The game looks insanely bad. End of fucking debate.

In the forums, way back when before everyone came in about the beta. You can search if you want. It was announced by Piett there, so it is "official".

si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes.

@nezumi
All I found was this.

"Any mod plans, if any, will be PC and 360 together."

However, that statement means any "mods" will have to be authored by FASA. That equals no mods. Any additional content outside of game patches will probably depend on their next game's development cycle. They may devote a few designers along with the rest of their development and art team to come up with marketplace downloads while the bulk of the design team begins work on a sequel, expansion, or something completely different.

I just want to know how long its going to take for the 360 users to start screaming 'OMG nErF!' to the PC users.

By now Im pretty disgusted with the whole thing. Its going to get smoked by Halo 3, and will be in a bargain bin with little or no damage done to this end of the franchise.