What skill does Parkour and Free Running fall under? Climbing, Gymnastics or Running? There is an Urban specialization for the Running skill, does that cover Parkour and Free Running?
Also, what types of things can Traceurs and Free Runners do in the SR4 world? I'm guessing heavy urbanization would allow for quite a nice playground for someone properly skilled.
Full Version: Parkour/Free Running Question
As a traceur myself I would say that is falls under almoost each of the skills in the Athletics Group, minus swimming.
Gymnastics for jumping and the various movements, climbing for the climbing movements, and well running for when you use parkour to get away from someone or catch up to someone.
I also have an awesome Parkour ork adept build that I love. I will post it up later and let you get the feel for it.
Traceurs and free runners in the sixth world do most of the same things that they do in the fifth, except now there are less physical limitations with the retrun of magic to the world and the advance of cybernetics and bioengineering.
Gymnastics for jumping and the various movements, climbing for the climbing movements, and well running for when you use parkour to get away from someone or catch up to someone.
I also have an awesome Parkour ork adept build that I love. I will post it up later and let you get the feel for it.
Traceurs and free runners in the sixth world do most of the same things that they do in the fifth, except now there are less physical limitations with the retrun of magic to the world and the advance of cybernetics and bioengineering.
what are you guys talking about?
Parkour and Freerunning
It is parkour and freerunning....the only real difference is that parkour tends to stay away from flips and showy tricks.
It is parkour and freerunning....the only real difference is that parkour tends to stay away from flips and showy tricks.
Mundanes have it prettty easy in SR: athletics group 1, muscle toner, muscle augmentation and synthacardium gives a decent dicepool for parkour.
My char (SR3) did it when I didn't even know something like that existed. When I saw some of those videos, I was awed (some older thread here on Dumpshock). I just had to made sure my GM saw them too
.
My char (SR3) did it when I didn't even know something like that existed. When I saw some of those videos, I was awed (some older thread here on Dumpshock). I just had to made sure my GM saw them too
.
My ork parkour adept has synthacardium 3, muscle toner 2, reflex recorder Gymnastics, Great Leap 4, Freefall 4, Wallrunning, Improved Ability Gymnastics 2, Improved Abilty Climbing 2, and then usually a power point of something else, usually killing hands and critical strike 2, though I mix it up a little sometimes and cut back on the freefall and great leap by a level each and use the .5 for something else.
If your interested in the more showy freerunning you'd want to focus on gymnastics, maybe even a couple points of perform.
If you just want to get away from the corpers (more in line with parkour) you'd want a lot of running but still plenty of gymnasitcs. I'd use equipment like grappling hooks instead of relying on climbing as you may well not have time to really use that.
If you just want to get away from the corpers (more in line with parkour) you'd want a lot of running but still plenty of gymnasitcs. I'd use equipment like grappling hooks instead of relying on climbing as you may well not have time to really use that.
Gecko tape gloves really come in handy (pun intended).
(if it hasn't rained
).
Probably not in the spirit of parkour, but very useful.
(if it hasn't rained
).Probably not in the spirit of parkour, but very useful.
And if you want to add some showy martial arts to your adept take Unarmed Combat with a specialization in Capoiera or Carromeleg so you can look like Tony Jaa while you fight.
That scene was SWEET.
That scene was SWEET.
The Reality of Augmented Attributes
If you want to see how the Shadowrun rules translate into actual real world distances, etc., have a look at this. All drawings are to scale with the samurai being about 6' tall. Yes, he has impressive attributes, but he is still quite far from totally maxxed out (especially in the skills department where they are neither maximums nor include specialisations). Note that our samurai can leap up into the typical first floor (2nd for you americans) window. As to the falling damage - pay special attention to the fact that this is due to falling. Most reasonable GMs will apply bonus dice or something if you are jumping in a controlled manner.
Pulling yourself up by one hand at those strengths is trivial. Hurdling a car is reasonable.
He could jump from a third (UK style) floor window without undue concern - titanium reinforced knee joints. What more could you ask for?
EDIT: These are all averaged rolls without the use of edge, by the way.
If you want to see how the Shadowrun rules translate into actual real world distances, etc., have a look at this. All drawings are to scale with the samurai being about 6' tall. Yes, he has impressive attributes, but he is still quite far from totally maxxed out (especially in the skills department where they are neither maximums nor include specialisations). Note that our samurai can leap up into the typical first floor (2nd for you americans) window. As to the falling damage - pay special attention to the fact that this is due to falling. Most reasonable GMs will apply bonus dice or something if you are jumping in a controlled manner.
Pulling yourself up by one hand at those strengths is trivial. Hurdling a car is reasonable.
He could jump from a third (UK style) floor window without undue concern - titanium reinforced knee joints. What more could you ask for?
EDIT: These are all averaged rolls without the use of edge, by the way.
Thats a great reference! It'd be really cool to set it up in flash where you could alter the stats and see how it changes performance. I might have to dig out my old copy of Macromedia studio MX.
Thank you. I did it in SVG and still have all the files, so if you want to do an animated version and for some reason you want to use the same graphics, PM or email me (email is better - link under my profile).
I should have said that I based the strength / lifting part on real world data, rather than the SR4 lifting rules which are a whole other subject. Other than that, all very strict RAW.
I'd still say that with 7s in those three attributes, you are talking about the ultimate human specimen...while his skills are not maxxed (still at an expert level though), you have a physically superior samaurai that is likely in the top 1% of the population...
he doesn't have natural 7s, deek. his natural attributes probably average around 4, with an average 3 points of augmentation.
double double post post
| QUOTE (deek) |
| I'd still say that with 7s in those three attributes, you are talking about the ultimate human specimen...while his skills are not maxxed (still at an expert level though), you have a physically superior samaurai that is likely in the top 1% of the population... |
No, I'm sorry. I can't agree with that. If natural, then yes - no human ever had stats that good. But I originally created this to illustrate just what augmented attributes meant in real terms. Perfection can be bought.
Human with Body 4, Str 3, Agi 3. Better than average, but reasonable. BP - 70 BP. Muscle Replacement 4 brings both Strength and Agility to 7. Cost - 20,000
or 4BP. Titanium Bone Lacing - Cost 40,000 or 8BP. This isn't true body, but it counts for the examples in the illustration, i.e damage resistance.So for an investment of 82 BP, you get a character that has "perfect" physical scores. tweaking out a character I can get something noticably better. Trading in some of the bone lacing and muscle replacement for a suprathyroid gland for example and simply being willing to spend more on attributes in the first place (I was cheap). That's without becoming metahuman.
So I agree that they are fantastic scores. But then that is half my point. The second half of my point is that augmentation makes these fantastic scores quite achievable.
And I'll say it again, the results in the illustration are average rolls and without edge. The point is that he or she can jump that car as a party trick. An edge re-roll will make a big difference to these results.
So back to the subject in hand, I think an augmented character has the potential to be an absolutely incredible traceur.
The only problem I have with that from a statistical standpoint is average rolls aren't a good indication of party trick worthy. If you can on average jump a 7m gap between buildings that means half the time you fall instead.
Figure a party trick should be something like 3 sigmas safe. You succeed 98% of the time. That still means you fall off those roofs twice out of every hundred jumps. Also on the taking damage side, these guys are doing moves that are probably safe out to within on ly a few percent of trials result in injury.
Figure a party trick should be something like 3 sigmas safe. You succeed 98% of the time. That still means you fall off those roofs twice out of every hundred jumps. Also on the taking damage side, these guys are doing moves that are probably safe out to within on ly a few percent of trials result in injury.
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
| And if you want to add some showy martial arts to your adept take Unarmed Combat with a specialization in Capoiera or Carromeleg so you can look like Tony Jaa while you fight. That scene was SWEET. |
While Capoiera and Carromeleg both are flashy and work relatively well with Parkour, I have found that the best combination IMO is with Shaolin Kempo. It has much more versatility and is more practical in a wider range of scenarios, which flows with the spirit of Parkour perfectly.
| QUOTE |
| And if you want to add some showy martial arts to your adept take Unarmed Combat with a specialization in Capoiera or Carromeleg so you can look like Tony Jaa while you fight. That scene was SWEET. |
What scene are you referring too? All his scenes rock my world. And do you mean Ong Bak or the new one?
He also performs Muay Thai, which is I think quite different from Capoeira, and what Carromeleg is supposed to be.
On that, what IS carromeleg supposed to be? Is it large and sweeping like Regional-senzala, cunning like Angola? I love capoeira and I love elves in shadowrun, but for some reason I just cant see capoeira being created by elves 6,000 years ago. I imagine an art relying on quickness and finesse, rather than brute strength, as this fits elves genetic characteristics, but what martial art doesn't?
i believe capoeira and carromeleg are stated to be quite similar.
and from what i can recall, capoeira is a very acrobatic style, and seemed to emphasize agility... perhaps you are thinking of another martial art?
and from what i can recall, capoeira is a very acrobatic style, and seemed to emphasize agility... perhaps you are thinking of another martial art?
| QUOTE (nathanross) |
| ...but what martial art doesn't? |
some people might take exception to the idea that boxing isn't a martial art. besides that, southern style wushu tends to emphasize power over mobility. greco-roman wrestling requires flexibility, but also power and toughness. finesse is hard to disinclude from any martial application, because there are lots of parts of the human body that can take (relatively) large amounts of damage, and only a few parts that are (relatively) easy to damage. manipulating the latter instead of spending extra time on the former will require precise application of force pretty much no matter what you're doing--punching, stabbing, shooting, etcetera.
in SR3, capoeira and carromeleg have the same stats.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| in SR3, capoeira and carromeleg have the same stats. |
Similar, not same.
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| Human with Body 4, Str 3, Agi 3. Better than average, but reasonable. BP - 70 BP. Muscle Replacement 4 brings both Strength and Agility to 7. |
Augmented maximum for 3 is 4 (3x1.5 round down), sorry. In order to gain maximum advantage from cyber/bioware one has to be quite an athlete already.
| QUOTE (Taotao) | ||
Augmented maximum for 3 is 4 (3x1.5 round down), sorry. In order to gain maximum advantage from cyber/bioware one has to be quite an athlete already. |
No, that's only for skills. There is no such limitation for attributes, the only one is the racial augmented attribute maximum.
| QUOTE (Butterblume) | ||||
No, that's only for skills. There is no such limitation for attributes, the only one is the racial augmented attribute maximum. |
Umph. I thought that attributes would follow the same rules as everything else regarding maximum augmented values but after reading p.62 over and over again I must admit that the rules are really badly written or just simply suck. House rule fixing this should be no-brainer. "Hello meet Willy the Weak (natural Str 1). He can benefit from Muscle Replacement 4 (->Str 5), Adrenaline Pump 3 (->Str 8 ) AND Suprathyroid Gland (->Str 9) . This is his pal Conan the Barbarian (natural Str 6), after having Muscle Augmentation 3 (->Str 9) even combat drugs do him no good. As does nothing else."
I am not sure if you object to Willy reaching strength 9 (right before the adrenaline pump kills him ), or Conan not benefiting from a combat drug.
Or both.
Anyways, ware makes you better, especially if you were exceptionally weak, so I think it makes sense.
), or Conan not benefiting from a combat drug.Or both.
Anyways, ware makes you better, especially if you were exceptionally weak, so I think it makes sense.
... and that's the whole point of 'ware - not just to make you superhuman, but to offer shortcuts, such as synthcardium, skillwires, etc. The augmented cap represents the maximum that can be achieved, whether you got there mostly by technology, or mostly by yourself.
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