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laughingowl
What do people think of an option to allow Technomancers the ability to spend resonance on 'cyberware' (in the manner of Physical adepts buying powers, NOT just cyberware = essence loss, essence loss = Resonance loss).

With the advantages of being 'free' (no nuyen), harder to detect, the ability to 'repair' 'fix' without surgical/medical interventions.

The disadvantages of: In addition to normal cyber detection the ability to see something funny with Assensing rolls, Loss of use with long term disconnection from Ressonance, no 'beta/delta' verision so paying full costs,


My base thought would be:
Gained either through an 'echo' or possibly making a Technomancer Adept quaity (though not sure what a TM would give up, so probably an echo (or an additional advantage).

Though a long session of conneting to the ressoance the Technomancer builds/binds a porition of their ressonace into a cyberware matric around them. like a mystic adept permenantly focusing one of the 'ressaonce points' into the cyberware and taking an effective -1 ressonace for all othe factors. (so any CF caps, rolls factored into ressoance, etc).

The ressoance cyberware would function like normal ware save:

Due to semi-mystical nature and built from with no invasive operations a penalty to the perception roll to detect (thinking +1/2 threshold to detect cyberware).
Ressonac-ware is in part powered by the Ressonance. While TM's natural signal can sustain for a while long term discconnection (day?) from ressonance can cause loss of use (and the need to 'rebuild').
Can be damaged / destroyed / 'blocked' like normal cyberware if detected. Though can be 'rebuilt' to repair.
Is 'built' (or rebuilt) via a deep ressoance meditation / focusing. Something along the lines of a ressonance (for this full NOT modifed) extended test. Each net hit gaiining .1 esseance/ressaonce built, interval 1 hour (can be broken into seperate segments).
Normally 'unchangeable' or 'un-upgradeable', though probably allow on future submissions a test to 'change' an existing power. (though NOT convert back into normal ressonance.).
Cyberware possible to duplicate, bioware not duplicatable.


While making a TM even more of a karma-drain then they already are... It seems a logical extension to me, consiering they already fairly closely mirror 'mages' and secondly it allows them to 'stay pure' while gaining functionality (all told more expensively then just getting the wares).

I personally have no problem seeing a horde of machine sprites 'building' cyberware into a Technomancer that choses to focus on that.
Jaid
i have been considering something similar to this. basically, here's my thoughts on it:

1) it doesn't just create cyberware, or at least not generally speaking. certain items (skillwires, for example, or simrigs) could be emulated, but i certainly wouldn't expect to see wired reflexes or muscle replacement from this, personally.

2) i personally prefer something more along the lines of being able to pay karma when getting cyberware as part of a metamagic technique or something like that. it just seems weird that cyberware comes out of nowhere. not sure on a cost, but basically it would make the cyber not count towards essence loss (full value of the cyber, if reduced to half because of more bioware you don't cut resonance loss in half)

3) it would be limited to the kinds of cyber that are basically improving the man/machine interface. so even with implanting cyber, i wouldn't allow the implantation of wired reflexes to be without essence cost. i would allow stuff like datajacks, simrigs, control rigs, implanted commlinks, cybereyes/ears, cyberlimbs, and skillwires, just off the top of my head.

in truth, i have occasionally considered just allowing TMs to use these kinds of cyberware with no resonance loss just as part of being a TM... it's not like TMs are exactly overpowered, and they are still losing the essence, just not the resonance. furthermore, it just seems to me that devices designed to allow interaction with technology (especially with the matrix) should really not interfere with the TM's ability to interract with technology/the matrix.

but that's just my take on it...
ornot
I did consider instituting a houserule that rounded essence up for resonance loss. Allows the implantation of a few choice bits of 'ware without gimping the TM. I think that, considering the fact that TMs are widely acknowledged to be underpowered, it could work; but I've not tried it.

I'm not sure that your resonance powered, self constructing cyberware is a particularly great plan. I might be misunderstanding your point, but the way I see it there's virtually no 'ware that is of immediate use in hacking or matrix access, and resonance is all about a connection to the matrix.

I just don't see why the Resonance would gift its disciples with 'ware, that while useful int eh meat world, adds nothing to their connection with the Resonance, and indeed, weakens it.
laughingowl
Jaid:

My thought is I dont see it soo much a coming from 'nowwhere' but:

1) if more 'mundane' Advanced diagnostic/achine sprites 'building' it (so truly real 'cyberware')

2) A form of long term 'binding' of sprites into a purpose (a more 'magical' solution).


Personally I am not wanting to limit it to man:machine interface, While I really dont want 'borgs' self-assimulating machines, I DO want a viable solution for a pure 'ressonance' based character as much along the lines of a phys-ad, rather then forcing them to go the loss of eseence route.

Any 'computerized' / Electronic cyberware I have no real problem with at all being 'built'.

The only things I would be debatalbe on would be pure passive things: Bone lacing, dermal plating, etc.

However, I think I would go the slightly more 'magical' route, and view it more os a binding of your ressoance into specially compiled sprites giving the effect.
ornot
I think that if you want a physically based character along the lines of a phys-ad, you'd be best served by playing a phys-ad. The Resonance strikes me as a purely virtual thing, with little interest in the meat world except where it impinges on the virtual one. Of course you're interpretation of the Resonance might be different.
laughingowl
Personally not looking for a 'physical adept replacement', what I am looking for is a means for a 'Technomancer' to augmented themselves WITHOUT going against what is the nature.

While it is 'easy' to say on paper, you are a better Technomancer if you give up X essence for Y cyber/bioware, in spirit you are a WORSE technomancer (even if you are a more survivable character).


Magicians (of all types), have several means to augment their survivability (in all avenues) without sacrificing their 'nature' (now it may be better for a mage to get synaptic accelerators, then say quicken increased reaction, but they 'CAN' increase themselves without giving up their magic).

Technomancer however, have no option to improve themselves without sacrificing their very nature.

The must anti-technology / pure body Eagle shaman, can still through foci / quickening or even sustain spells, augment themselves in ways that help survivability even outside the roll of 'mage'

The spell-sling has: Sustained spells, quickened spells, and/or possibly Adpet powers, all to augemnt their ability to survive a gunshot.

A Technomancer has to meta-game / fundementally give up thier nature to do this.

Mages can meta-game (or possibly even in character chose) and go the cyberware = most gain / karma spent; but they dont HAVE to.

Technomancers have to give up themselves to be surviable.

Power wise: -1 ressonance ~= -1 essence. (one you still heal easier, but is more espensive to buy back the ressonance, they other you take healing penalties, but is cheaper to re-gain the lost essence)

But if a mage can be 'pure' mage and still get boosts needed to survive (even if not the most effecient), so should a technomancer (IMO).


peace
ornot
Magic is meant to be more versatile than Technomancy.

That is why it costs more BPs to buy the magician quality than the TM quality.

You don't need enhanced stats or bonus IPs to be survivable. Trading a few levels of CFs for a few combat skills and carrying some combat drugs can give you the edge you need in the meat.

Better yet, stay out of the way when the group's combat oriented characters wade in, and use your otherworldly matrix skills to screw with your opponents gear, manipulate surrounding electronic devices and to command your LMG toting drone to lay waste to your foes with exploding rounds.
laughingowl
QUOTE

Magic is meant to be more versatile than Technomancy.


This I can accept and even allowing the Technomancer to 'innately' get cyberware (instead of actually cutting the flesh) doesnt change this.

QUOTE

That is why it costs more BPs to buy the magician quality than the TM quality.


This I dont accept. Technomancer quality is cheaper (IMO) since it get your correspondly less. Far more 'skills' have to be learned to be effective. Your spells have to be bought at each point (and more needed to be effective). Mage quality, sorcery (spellcasting), Magic, 1 spell and you have a limited but effective mage.

Technomancer quality: Computer and Hacking skill group, 4+ Complex Forms bought at several levels, ressoance and you have a limited but possibly effective Techomancer.

QUOTE
You don't need enhanced stats or bonus IPs to be survivable. Trading a few levels of CFs for a few combat skills and carrying some combat drugs can give you the edge you need in the meat.


Agree, though the mage has the exact same options AND can improve themselves following their nature (magic). Technology is a base part of the Technomancers name, I would like to see them be able to impove themslves via their nature not breaking their nature.


Also it is not lke this is making the Technomancer more powerful. It is giving them nothing they couldnt already do, just making the 'flavor' more inline with their nature, rather than opposed to it.

(well I guess my intial thought would allow for more then 6 points of essence loss from cyberware, if they wanted to sacrifice 6+ points of resonance, but that is a lot of karma and willing to say wouldnt be an issue in 99% of the games.)
Dentris
New Echo:

Implant Symbiosis:

The Technomancer is able to maintain the integrity of his astral signature even when his body is implanted with new technology. The Technomancer may ignore a number of Essence points lost equal to half his submersion grade (rounded up) when reducing his resonance attribute in result of a lower Essence rating.

For example, a technomancer with a submersion rating of 3 and an essence of 1 would ignore then first two lost points of essence, meaning his resonance would only be reduced by 3.

That's my proposition. It doesn't break the balance, while allowing an extra edge for the technomancer.
Moon-Hawk
Ooooh, I like that idea.
I wonder, though, if it would be better the way you describe it, or if it would be better to say that each time you take that Echo you can ignore up to 1 point of essence loss when calculating resonance loss, but the echo can be taken multiple times?
I could see arguments for doing it either way. I suppose since one method is pretty clearly more powerful than the other it just depends on how much 'ware you want them to be able to get.
ornot
I do like that Echo, Dentris.

Not for everyone, but all the same, it's nice to ahve options.
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