Ok guys, I'm considering starting my new campaign in the Redmond barrens (or similar slum area of Seattle), but I'm not sure how the area will be presented.
1. Technology: Can they expect everyone to have comlinks? Will the wireless be accessible?
2. Armament: Aside from the powerful gangs and org. crime, what will the street punks and ordinary low-lifes have? I was thinking mainly cheap melee weapons for thugs, mixed with a few light pistols. Random people in the streets... perhaps a shiv, club, or nothing. Major gangs will probably have automatics, perhaps even assualt rifles and a few grenades.
3. What do people do? They can't ALL be gang members, or even thugs. There must be plenty of displaced persons and sinless. How do they live? A society must produce in order to sustain itself, not just prey on eachother.
4. Are there any shops? What kinds of people run them, and what protection do they have? Or does rampant crime and chaos mean (semi) legitimate buisiness cannot operate? Who buys and distributes the necessities?
5. Buildings: How big and funtional are they? Shacks or apartments? Abandoned buildings? Any registered property?
6. Law enforcement: Do Lone Star EVER come there? Do the gangs police themselves?
7. Theft? Beggars? Children? Infirm?
Full Version: Life in the Barrens
I would imagine that it works kinda like how slummy and corrupt areas function in real life. Take Mexico City, for example. I have no idea how all of those people actually manage to survive. I would imagine that the barrenites would work the crap jobs, sewer workers, garbage men, minimum wage jobs, like burger flippers, etc.
As for technology, I would imagine that there would be some holes in the coverage, but anyone with at least low lifestyle should have commlinks with access to the matrix. Squatters would probably have commlinks (you know, so they can actually work and carry money), but wouldn't have matrix access except when they went to nicer areas. Street probably wouldn't even have commlinks most of the time.
As for technology, I would imagine that there would be some holes in the coverage, but anyone with at least low lifestyle should have commlinks with access to the matrix. Squatters would probably have commlinks (you know, so they can actually work and carry money), but wouldn't have matrix access except when they went to nicer areas. Street probably wouldn't even have commlinks most of the time.
From what I got out of runners haven the barrens tend to have gaping holes in there coverage. Usually the "holes" are the spots that actually have access. People would have the cheep 100 
comlinks.
Low Life Style would still likely have matrix access but being the barrens low life style are the upper class.
Shops would likely pay the local street gangs for protection. Now this may not even be extortion. They pay the local street gang to protect them from the gang down the street.
That doesn't mean a gang won't bust up a shop for failing to pay protection.
Considering the low cost, holdout pistols would be quite common. Most of them unlicensed. Its never mentioned but I always imagined SINless could get a work visa. And remember companies hire illegals in todays world. I bet they still do it in SR. Paying in corporate scrip. A form of cash that usually only the corporation that issued it will accept as payment for goods and services.
comlinks.Low Life Style would still likely have matrix access but being the barrens low life style are the upper class.
Shops would likely pay the local street gangs for protection. Now this may not even be extortion. They pay the local street gang to protect them from the gang down the street.
That doesn't mean a gang won't bust up a shop for failing to pay protection.
Considering the low cost, holdout pistols would be quite common. Most of them unlicensed. Its never mentioned but I always imagined SINless could get a work visa. And remember companies hire illegals in todays world. I bet they still do it in SR. Paying in corporate scrip. A form of cash that usually only the corporation that issued it will accept as payment for goods and services.
There is a lot of GM leeway, so you can set whatever tone you want. At a guess, though, I would say:
1) The Barrens are probably the exception to the rule - there will be some people who don't have commlinks, and there will be wireless "dead zones". The areas with wireless will probably be crawling with hacker wannabes and lots of spam (probably about half of it porn). For the people who do have commlinks, they will probably be Meta Links for the most part (a CMT Clip will be considered a luxury model
). However, BTL-modifications will be very common, almost the norm. Even people who don't slot BTLs will still probably have lots of VR stuff - sure, the Barrens suck, but they can be walking through a Roman colliseum, listening to soaring orchestrals while their virtual girlfriend dotes on their every word.
2) Streetline specials will be most common among street punks and people just trying to survive, with Colt America L36's the next most common. Pepper spray would also be fairly common. There would also be a lot of older or improvised weapons - this is where you can really add more atmosphere. Maybe someone has an old revolver loaded with old-school hollow point rounds, or a taser made out of an old refrigerator magnet. For gangs, weapons will be higher-end, and they will also favor intimidating-looking stuff. You might see a ganger with a monofilament chainsaw, or a broom handle with a meat cleaver on the end.
3) Some are squatters who survive day by day. Some work for below-subsistence wages in unsafe but heavily guarded factories. Some work (not always voluntarily) in illicit businesses run by organized crime (mixing up Bliss, making BTLs, etc.). At the edges of the Barrens, you will find people coming to fulfill their vices. Some of the Barrens denizens will fulfill those vices (BTL dealers, prostitutes, etc.), and some of them will rob, kill, or con those seekers of vice. There will be charity, some by overwhelmed private institutions, some by corporations looking for good publicity - but it should always seem like it is not nearly enough to meet the demand.
4) Other than a few heavily-guarded McHughes and Stuffer Shacks, most shops will be junky, second-hand shops. that will only take barter or certified cred, and they will pay protection money to the local gangs. Some of them, especially the shadier ones, won't be out in the open - you need to know how to find them.
5) The decay should not be total, but the more intact a building is, the more likely that one of the stronger predators of the Barrens has claimed it. Squats will be like today's squalid tenements, and there will also be coffin motel places where the cubicles are almost completely bare, and stacked unsafely high. Lots of areas of ruins, lots of buildings that people avoid because they are unsafe, and some places where vermin such as devil rats or even ghouls have taken over. Utilities will either be parsimoniously rationed or stolen.
6) Lone Star would only come in if they were pursuing someone they wanted really badly, or if they needed to put down a full-scale riot. The gangs rule, for the most part, but they are continually fighting among themselves, and they have to be careful not to upset the large-scale operations run by organized crime (or by any other group out to exploit the residents of the Barrens as cheap labor, guinee pigs, etc.).
7) Theft is common - everyone locks their doors and watches their stuff as a matter of course. Lots of homeless and squatters, but they will usually only beg on the outskirts of the Barrens - in the Barrens, it's dog-eat-dog and rarely will anyone give anyone else a handout. Kids, yeah, and a lot of them on their own. They grow up fast in the Barrens. They have to. Infirm, yes - disease is rampant, proper medicine rare and expensive, even food and water hard to come by. If you get sick, you are in trouble, and very often going to die. A bad cold can wind up being fatal in the Barrens.
1) The Barrens are probably the exception to the rule - there will be some people who don't have commlinks, and there will be wireless "dead zones". The areas with wireless will probably be crawling with hacker wannabes and lots of spam (probably about half of it porn). For the people who do have commlinks, they will probably be Meta Links for the most part (a CMT Clip will be considered a luxury model
). However, BTL-modifications will be very common, almost the norm. Even people who don't slot BTLs will still probably have lots of VR stuff - sure, the Barrens suck, but they can be walking through a Roman colliseum, listening to soaring orchestrals while their virtual girlfriend dotes on their every word.2) Streetline specials will be most common among street punks and people just trying to survive, with Colt America L36's the next most common. Pepper spray would also be fairly common. There would also be a lot of older or improvised weapons - this is where you can really add more atmosphere. Maybe someone has an old revolver loaded with old-school hollow point rounds, or a taser made out of an old refrigerator magnet. For gangs, weapons will be higher-end, and they will also favor intimidating-looking stuff. You might see a ganger with a monofilament chainsaw, or a broom handle with a meat cleaver on the end.
3) Some are squatters who survive day by day. Some work for below-subsistence wages in unsafe but heavily guarded factories. Some work (not always voluntarily) in illicit businesses run by organized crime (mixing up Bliss, making BTLs, etc.). At the edges of the Barrens, you will find people coming to fulfill their vices. Some of the Barrens denizens will fulfill those vices (BTL dealers, prostitutes, etc.), and some of them will rob, kill, or con those seekers of vice. There will be charity, some by overwhelmed private institutions, some by corporations looking for good publicity - but it should always seem like it is not nearly enough to meet the demand.
4) Other than a few heavily-guarded McHughes and Stuffer Shacks, most shops will be junky, second-hand shops. that will only take barter or certified cred, and they will pay protection money to the local gangs. Some of them, especially the shadier ones, won't be out in the open - you need to know how to find them.
5) The decay should not be total, but the more intact a building is, the more likely that one of the stronger predators of the Barrens has claimed it. Squats will be like today's squalid tenements, and there will also be coffin motel places where the cubicles are almost completely bare, and stacked unsafely high. Lots of areas of ruins, lots of buildings that people avoid because they are unsafe, and some places where vermin such as devil rats or even ghouls have taken over. Utilities will either be parsimoniously rationed or stolen.
6) Lone Star would only come in if they were pursuing someone they wanted really badly, or if they needed to put down a full-scale riot. The gangs rule, for the most part, but they are continually fighting among themselves, and they have to be careful not to upset the large-scale operations run by organized crime (or by any other group out to exploit the residents of the Barrens as cheap labor, guinee pigs, etc.).
7) Theft is common - everyone locks their doors and watches their stuff as a matter of course. Lots of homeless and squatters, but they will usually only beg on the outskirts of the Barrens - in the Barrens, it's dog-eat-dog and rarely will anyone give anyone else a handout. Kids, yeah, and a lot of them on their own. They grow up fast in the Barrens. They have to. Infirm, yes - disease is rampant, proper medicine rare and expensive, even food and water hard to come by. If you get sick, you are in trouble, and very often going to die. A bad cold can wind up being fatal in the Barrens.
I recall from the Genesis shadowrun game the Motel keepers in the Barrens would say.
"Sorry the only rooms we have left are ones with views." Of course back then they didn't have AR overlay.
"Sorry the only rooms we have left are ones with views." Of course back then they didn't have AR overlay.
Don't forget small packs of ghouls running around at night. Toxic Shamans claiming small/large parcels of property.
On and off, I've been writing a street-level campaign to be run when my group gets done with a couple other ideas I have for about 3-4 months now. Every time I think I've gotten it street and gritty enough, a thread like this comes along and shows me how much worse I can truely make it...
Mark
Mark
Thanks guys, I think I have a better idea on how to run it now. I was thinking too extreme (like total anarchic warzone) when I should be looking at RL slums, where there ARE alot of cheap houses, apartment blocks, small shops etc.
As for the cheap labour... would an average slummer have to commute outside the barrens to get to his crappy illegal factory job? Or would companies and corps have work institutions that lies inside the barrens?
Ok here's what Wiki has to say:
Many slum dwellers employ themselves in the informal economy. This can include street vending, drug dealing, domestic work, and prostitution. In some slums people even recycle trash of different kinds (from household garbage to electronics) for a living - selling either the odd usable goods or stripping broken goods for parts or raw materials.
We can just add BTL dealing and it fits nicely
As for the cheap labour... would an average slummer have to commute outside the barrens to get to his crappy illegal factory job? Or would companies and corps have work institutions that lies inside the barrens?
Ok here's what Wiki has to say:
Many slum dwellers employ themselves in the informal economy. This can include street vending, drug dealing, domestic work, and prostitution. In some slums people even recycle trash of different kinds (from household garbage to electronics) for a living - selling either the odd usable goods or stripping broken goods for parts or raw materials.
We can just add BTL dealing and it fits nicely
Keep in mind that most of the normal slummers relocated to the ACHE.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| Keep in mind that most of the normal slummers relocated to the ACHE. |
Whats' that? And what's a normal slummer? I might just ignore canon here though, if it doesen't suit the play style.
If you've seen Banlieue 13, then you have a good start for the barrens. I think in the scene where Leto's sister is kidnapped from the supermarket where she works in broad daylight, you can see everything you need to see about how the society works in the vaguely embarrased, "what can you do?" expressions of the guards outside.
Runner Havens makes mention that there are some heavily guarded factories in the barrens. I dread to think what they are making in order to find Redmond an attractive place to set up shop. There is also a reference to bio-domes which must produce some food. I would imagine the gangs or residents association who control that area are pretty well armed. Also, there might be some care packages of nuyen to family from those who have managed to get jobs outside.
-K.
| QUOTE (FriendoftheDork) | ||
Whats' that? And what's a normal slummer? I might just ignore canon here though, if it doesen't suit the play style. |
I was just writing a summary when I realized that it written up nicely in Runner Havens.
Basically, the only inhabitants of the now walled barrens are anarchists, criminals, mutants and other scum.
I second Glyphs suggestions, and I would like to recommend another flick:
Not cyberpunk, but the brazilian movie Cidade de Deus -City of god-also can give you some pretty accurate ideas about living in a slum.
Of course, you could visit the outskirts of Rio, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Lima or Montevideo and actually see one. Quite educational, but not recommended for the health-conscious.
BTW, About the relationship between the Star and the Barrens
The police might have some sort of deal with the Barrens gangs. The gangs could hand out some wanted criminals to the cops in exchange of some leeway the next time the police comes around cracking heads.
Some undercover cop or some Eastwood type would come to the barrens from time to time to check up on snitches or talk with their "cousins".
Eventually the police could come to make arrests and make a big show for the press, especially if the criminal elements of the barrens have been leaking out to more proper neighborhoods. When they do, they come loaded for bear and shoot first, shoot second and never come to the questions part...
You may want to check the abundant threads about gritty shadowrun to get an idea for caps in Magic, skills, availability and else for Barrens characters
Good luck with the campaign, sounds quite interesting, keep us informed about how you do!
Cheers,
Max
Not cyberpunk, but the brazilian movie Cidade de Deus -City of god-also can give you some pretty accurate ideas about living in a slum.
Of course, you could visit the outskirts of Rio, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Lima or Montevideo and actually see one. Quite educational, but not recommended for the health-conscious.
BTW, About the relationship between the Star and the Barrens
The police might have some sort of deal with the Barrens gangs. The gangs could hand out some wanted criminals to the cops in exchange of some leeway the next time the police comes around cracking heads.
Some undercover cop or some Eastwood type would come to the barrens from time to time to check up on snitches or talk with their "cousins".
Eventually the police could come to make arrests and make a big show for the press, especially if the criminal elements of the barrens have been leaking out to more proper neighborhoods. When they do, they come loaded for bear and shoot first, shoot second and never come to the questions part...
You may want to check the abundant threads about gritty shadowrun to get an idea for caps in Magic, skills, availability and else for Barrens characters
Good luck with the campaign, sounds quite interesting, keep us informed about how you do!
Cheers,
Max
The factories are here because of cheap land and inexistant enforcement of environmental laws. Most of the time it's heavy industry. I think that cheap labour can be another reason, if the factory isn't fully automated.
Something that wasn't said is that you're also likely to find small communities where people support each other. On that topic, gangs aren't just made of punks bent on destruction. A gang can also be a local militia or just a group of friends who stick together to survive.
Something that wasn't said is that you're also likely to find small communities where people support each other. On that topic, gangs aren't just made of punks bent on destruction. A gang can also be a local militia or just a group of friends who stick together to survive.
@blade: ...or family.
good point.
Cheers,
Max
good point.
Cheers,
Max
1.) Almost everyone has a commlink. Without one, you are lost. Look at the prices and what a commlink can do for you. Furthermore there are numerous passages in the BBB saying that almost everybody even in the barrens has a commlink.
Contrary to the BBB there are no "dead zones". The matrix is designed as a mesh network. Every node acts as a router. With the amount of CPUs active even in your clothes, your furniture and the packing of your food, it is impossible to have dead zones. This is a BBB inconsitency that unwired needs to resolve.
2. Street Punks (everybody in some gang) will carry Heavy Pistols. Again Look at prices and availability. The only two weapons that are not in the 300 Nuyen category are the Streetline Special and the Colt America. The rest costs about 300 Nuyen (Hold Outs, Light Pistols and Heavy Pistols alike).
Then look at AK97. 500Nuyen - 4R. A not neglectable amount of Street Punks will carry one of those. Same goes for AK97 carabine and Remigton 990.
The restriction in this case is not money, but the law (and how well they get away in breaking it)
Note that an Armor Jacket is 900 Nuyen.
3. People are either in a gang, have normal wage slave jobs (the really low payed "have to compete with machines" stuff) or are squatters and minor cirminals.
4. Of course there are shops. They are protected by the gangs, the mafia or other criminal organisations.
5. Normal houses which are badly maintained. Lots of run down stuff. Major water and electricty problems (which is bad in an electricity driven world). Lots of empty stuff.
6. Lonestar only goes there after a mayor shoot out or something. And then only with lots of City Masters and a whole squadron of policemen.
Contrary to the BBB there are no "dead zones". The matrix is designed as a mesh network. Every node acts as a router. With the amount of CPUs active even in your clothes, your furniture and the packing of your food, it is impossible to have dead zones. This is a BBB inconsitency that unwired needs to resolve.
2. Street Punks (everybody in some gang) will carry Heavy Pistols. Again Look at prices and availability. The only two weapons that are not in the 300 Nuyen category are the Streetline Special and the Colt America. The rest costs about 300 Nuyen (Hold Outs, Light Pistols and Heavy Pistols alike).
Then look at AK97. 500Nuyen - 4R. A not neglectable amount of Street Punks will carry one of those. Same goes for AK97 carabine and Remigton 990.
The restriction in this case is not money, but the law (and how well they get away in breaking it)
Note that an Armor Jacket is 900 Nuyen.
3. People are either in a gang, have normal wage slave jobs (the really low payed "have to compete with machines" stuff) or are squatters and minor cirminals.
4. Of course there are shops. They are protected by the gangs, the mafia or other criminal organisations.
5. Normal houses which are badly maintained. Lots of run down stuff. Major water and electricty problems (which is bad in an electricity driven world). Lots of empty stuff.
6. Lonestar only goes there after a mayor shoot out or something. And then only with lots of City Masters and a whole squadron of policemen.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||||
I was just writing a summary when I realized that it written up nicely in Runner Havens. Basically, the only inhabitants of the now walled barrens are anarchists, criminals, mutants and other scum. |
Hmm, well it seems I'd like to deviate from canon at this point. I like my slum to be filled with people who are not thugs, mutants etc. I mean dirt poor losers that live from day to day, unemplyed scavangers etc. A society of wolves cannot sustain itself, there need to be sheep (and even the occasional cow).
Also, I want to include people in the slums that are worse off than the PCs, and if every good carries an AK and an armored jacket then that's clearly not the case.
Maxhunter, I've seen Cidade de Deus, it's great. I guess the main changes (aside technology) will be that people are alot poorer, criminals will be better armed, crime alot more organized, and the actual living space will be less open and have more large apartment blocks instead of 1-family houses.
500 nuyen... if you think about it it's not an insignificant amount of money. Sure, not much for a drug dealer, or even a low-lifestyle employee, but this is basically worth a month of squatting lifestyle - not everyone can afford to spend a month's expenses on just a weapon. Heck, some can't even afford squatting!
I'm giving the PCs 2d6 hundred nuyens, so at least a few should be able to afford an AK should they want one, but they opt to purchase an OK comlink instead coupled with a heavy pistol.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||||
I was just writing a summary when I realized that it written up nicely in Runner Havens. Basically, the only inhabitants of the now walled barrens are anarchists, criminals, mutants and other scum. |
But the ACHE has only 100,000 inhabitants - I also figured that the Barrens have a lot more..
| QUOTE |
| 1.) Almost everyone has a commlink. Without one, you are lost. Look at the prices and what a commlink can do for you. Furthermore there are numerous passages in the BBB saying that almost everybody even in the barrens has a commlink. Contrary to the BBB there are no "dead zones". The matrix is designed as a mesh network. Every node acts as a router. With the amount of CPUs active even in your clothes, your furniture and the packing of your food, it is impossible to have dead zones. This is a BBB inconsitency that unwired needs to resolve. |
Just as it is today there are multiple layers to the mesh, as you still have limits on how many connections can be made through a particular device. ( Subscriber limits.)
There still are regional gateways ( Wired and Wireless) that connect to the larger telecommunications grid.
The difference is the pervasive amount of PAN connections and the amount of publically accessable wireless regional gateways.
So in areas where there is no maintained access to the telecommunications grid, your stuck accessing other PAN. ( Hope you invested in a satlink in this case.)
| QUOTE |
| 2. Street Punks (everybody in some gang) will carry Heavy Pistols. Again Look at prices and availability. The only two weapons that are not in the 300 Nuyen category are the Streetline Special and the Colt America. |
| QUOTE |
| 3. People are either in a gang, have normal wage slave jobs (the really low payed "have to compete with machines" stuff) or are squatters and minor cirminals. |
Being in a gang is a full time job, your not going to be involved with regular wage slaves.
Gangs are also one of the lowest rungs of the criminal world, which is why most aspire to make it into the top ranks or get picked up by one of the more upscale organized criminal organizations.
And think about it, if your in the squatters life style ( 500 nuyen a month.) its unlikely your going to be shelling out 300 nuyen on a single piece of gear.
Why not? Most people I know shell out at least 2 months salary on single pieces of gear. They're called cars, and we consider them vital to live our daily lives. Squatters wouldn't likely use cars, but squat security provided by the firm of Smith & Wesson might be considered vital.
| QUOTE (bait) | ||
Just as it is today there are multiple layers to the mesh, as you still have limits on how many connections can be made through a particular device. ( Subscriber limits.) |
Hmm, interesting. This would on the other hand mean that each owner must dedicate a subscription slot for pure router activity – and the question arises if many people in the barrens trust each other to do that and have an open PAN.
Also, most people have cheapo comms with 1-2 subscriptions available and might not want to use that to play routers. There’s nothing stopping the bottom-rung hacker gangs to invest in a rating 3 commlink that acts as their personal node though.
I can imagine that there is no “hole” per se but those connections might be somewhat guarded by their owners so in order to use one of those connections you might have to subscribe to it, for a fee – or hack it.
| QUOTE (Serbitar) |
| 1.) Almost everyone has a commlink. Without one, you are lost. Look at the prices and what a commlink can do for you. . This is a BBB inconsitency that unwired needs to resolve. 2. Street Punks (everybody in some gang) will carry Heavy Pistols. Again Look at prices and availability. The only two weapons that are not in the 300 Nuyen category are the Streetline Special and the Colt America. The restriction in this case is not money, but the law (and how well they get away in breaking it) Note that an Armor Jacket is 900 Nuyen. 3. People are either in a gang, have normal wage slave jobs (the really low payed "have to compete with machines" stuff) or are squatters and minor cirminals. 4. Of course there are shops. They are protected by the gangs, the mafia or other criminal organisations. 5. Normal houses which are badly maintained. Lots of run down stuff. Major water and electricty problems (which is bad in an electricity driven world). Lots of empty stuff. 6. Lonestar only goes there after a mayor shoot out or something. And then only with lots of City Masters and a whole squadron of policemen. |
Serb: You apparently have the 'shiney happy distopian barrens'.
1: Not only no, hell no. Unless I'm missing a peice of Canon which suggests that the Barrens are the beneficiaries of some urban renovation (always possible... I am no Canon ninja) the barrens can only have gotten worse in the twenty years of timeline, not better. These are the dispossessed. Most of them don't even have MONEY, much less fancy electronics like commlinks. They live in the ruins civilization, in decay. If anything, a barrens game would look a lot like a post-apocalypic game, where the shiny techno-savvy people come from outside with guns only when they have to. If a barrens squatter has some bit of clothing that has electronics in it, he most likely stole it off of a corpse of someone who wasn't from the barrens. The other alternative is that he stole it from some sweatshop factory set up by corps using squatters as slave labor. Commlinks are rare items, probably bartered away to someone with a use for them at the first opportunity. Since SR1 was released, entire generations of people have been born and raised to adulthood in the barrens. Two generations of Orcs. Techno-savvy is the exception rather than the rule.
2: price and availability reflects shadowrunners with access to a criminal infrastructure. In other words you are applying a meta-game mechanic to an in setting situation. Even the streetgangs don't have much money or connections in teh barrens to buy guns with. Barter economy, they do have guns, but many of them are either home made or old models. Pistols are the norm, bigger pistols certainly, but only because of the intimidation 'bigger is better' mentality. Hell, gangs in the barrens might even have a 'guns=rank' mentality, where the average street thug doesn't have access to them, but his leaders do. More powerful barrens gangs might have a few assault rifles and heavy weapons stashed away, mostly looted from corpsec squads that didn't finish their missions. Legality isn't even an issue. Gangs are the big fish in the area.
3&4: Nobody has a wage slave job in the barrens. They work, sure. Gangs are full time jobs, but your average squatter 'earns a living' by survival tasks. Hunting rats for their meat, say. Say it with me: Barter economy. This guy scavenges from the ruins, that guy sells what the first found, and uses the meat (say) he was traded to pay off the first guy. Shops are either tiny one man stands or run by the gangs out of fortified buildings (think pawn/gun shops of today...lots of bars on teh windows, heavy brick/cinderblock construction...).
5: Nobody is maintaining infrastructure, power in the barrens either comes from a rare and highly valued generator or is pirated from old trunks. Water is primarily rainwater collection. The barrens are BAD, man. Nobody runs powerlines out there, cause there are no paying customers. What powerlines used to run through the area are long dead after 20+ years without maintenance.
6: Any official run into the barrens will look more like a military operation than a police action. Even a major shootout/fugitive pursuit will not get Lonestar to enter the barrens. Rioting? Sure. If it's something valuable enough, then you might be looking more at a commando style raid, a squad of men running through the wreckage of a burnt out cityscape with a low profile, chasing similarly low profile runners.
All of this is doubly or triply true if the rumors are correct and the barrens have been 'walled off'. Now you're looking at an 'Escape from New York' senario for real.
I think you're taking that a little far, Spike. Sure the folk in the barrens are the disposessed, but it's not the bush.
People there are diseased and frequently starving, but one thing they'll have plenty of is old tech goods, discarded by the Haves in the good parts of town. Same goes for guns. Your average barrens dweller will have a probably home made weapon, or a battered handgun, but gangers will be pretty well supplied courtesy of the local syndicates. They need someone to collect protection money and deal their drugs after all, and Barrens dwellers are the folk most likely to want their fix to escape from living in the Barrens.
There will be shops, paying fairly hefty protection money to syndicates or local gangs, but the gangers need shops too. Toward the edge of the barrens folk will probably commute to more respectable areas to pursue low skilled jobs, although I agree that people living deep within the Barrens are pretty stuck.
I imagine power and water are pretty scarce resources, but these places did once have those resources, and the infrastructure will not have collapsed so utterly as to be useless. I imagine explosions are quite common still. Some Barrens folk probably make a living out of performing maintenance on the infrastructure, being paid by gangers who like their 'luxuries'. Networks are probably more community run, requiring membership in a gang or payment to said gang. It wouldn't be hard for a gang to get ahold of a satellite uplink (remember all the junk being thrown out by the Haves?)
Your 6th point doesn't make a lot of sense if gangs are armed with sticks, guns being a rarity, so you must be acknowledging that there are powers in the Barrens sufficient to discourage LS. I don't think LS are sufficiently well trained to engage in commando style raids into the Barrens. If they do go in it's in serious force with aerial support and heavy weapons. No voters there anyway. They probably don't choose to go in very often though. No voters live there.
People there are diseased and frequently starving, but one thing they'll have plenty of is old tech goods, discarded by the Haves in the good parts of town. Same goes for guns. Your average barrens dweller will have a probably home made weapon, or a battered handgun, but gangers will be pretty well supplied courtesy of the local syndicates. They need someone to collect protection money and deal their drugs after all, and Barrens dwellers are the folk most likely to want their fix to escape from living in the Barrens.
There will be shops, paying fairly hefty protection money to syndicates or local gangs, but the gangers need shops too. Toward the edge of the barrens folk will probably commute to more respectable areas to pursue low skilled jobs, although I agree that people living deep within the Barrens are pretty stuck.
I imagine power and water are pretty scarce resources, but these places did once have those resources, and the infrastructure will not have collapsed so utterly as to be useless. I imagine explosions are quite common still. Some Barrens folk probably make a living out of performing maintenance on the infrastructure, being paid by gangers who like their 'luxuries'. Networks are probably more community run, requiring membership in a gang or payment to said gang. It wouldn't be hard for a gang to get ahold of a satellite uplink (remember all the junk being thrown out by the Haves?)
Your 6th point doesn't make a lot of sense if gangs are armed with sticks, guns being a rarity, so you must be acknowledging that there are powers in the Barrens sufficient to discourage LS. I don't think LS are sufficiently well trained to engage in commando style raids into the Barrens. If they do go in it's in serious force with aerial support and heavy weapons. No voters there anyway. They probably don't choose to go in very often though. No voters live there.
@Spike:
1. look at commlink prices. Commlinks are the most useful thing there is. You will have one for 100 Y. Every squatter will.
2. prices and availability reflect prices and availability, for everyone.
3. look at my wageslave definition here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16483 (PatWorker)
5. Nice definition. But I dont think anybody would tolerate that. If things are walled off, OK, but not in a normal part of the city.
1. look at commlink prices. Commlinks are the most useful thing there is. You will have one for 100 Y. Every squatter will.
2. prices and availability reflect prices and availability, for everyone.
3. look at my wageslave definition here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16483 (PatWorker)
5. Nice definition. But I dont think anybody would tolerate that. If things are walled off, OK, but not in a normal part of the city.
I land a bit in the middle of Spike and Serbitar. I think the "Escape from New York" comparison is valid to an extent, but what must be remembered is that in that situation the people were hardened criminals considered the most violent and unable to adapt to normal society. The barrens on the other hand are a mixture of the poor, the social outcasts, the hardened criminals, and those trying to make a buck or two off of the groups. Ghouls, mutants, those out squatting in places like Glow City and other places on the extreme will lack commlinks and guns except perhaps those they've recovered from corpses or garbage heaps. On the other hand, the organized gangs would have street thugs with knives and clubs, and higher ups with colt americas. The larger gangs may carry some shotguns, SMGs or Assault Rifles, but that is only for the big time players.
The economy would likely work off of a major barter system within the barrens, and those with outside contacts would sell anything useful to non-barreners and then buy things they can then barter the barrener for. Low lifestyle would be in the areas near Renton, Bellevue, and possibly along the highways, but as you get inside the heart of the barrens its all squatters who have only the necessities, and since you can't eat or defend yourself with a commlink I'd say they would sell those for something they could use more. Commlinks only benefit those who can move around in society.
The economy would likely work off of a major barter system within the barrens, and those with outside contacts would sell anything useful to non-barreners and then buy things they can then barter the barrener for. Low lifestyle would be in the areas near Renton, Bellevue, and possibly along the highways, but as you get inside the heart of the barrens its all squatters who have only the necessities, and since you can't eat or defend yourself with a commlink I'd say they would sell those for something they could use more. Commlinks only benefit those who can move around in society.
Note that you can shift the timeline in SR a little bit you don't have to play on the edge of what's going on. For example I don't have the newer runner havens, maybe some extra junk happened and things are worse. If you don't like that, scale back a few years.
So some pieces of info from the older sources I do have.
First much of the barrens is walled off. Theses are walls seperating it from the AAA neighborhoods it's next to. Security seems to drop where bad neighborhoods in other districts contact the barrens.
Next Redmond barrens isn't homogenous for security rating. This from the old Seatle sourcebooks. The older ones had maps that showed where things were and gave listings of the security ratings of different areas. In Redmond there was a touristville section in west up against it's neighbors. This is a place that would have matrix connectivity and be the "seedy part of town" area where you'd go for cheep drugs and cheaper hookers. There is a little money there. As you spread out you start seeing regions that are completly off the grid.
Also note that Redmond doesn't have the syndicate presence that the Pullayup barrens do. Meaning gangs tend to not be as well equiped.
Anyway as for specific questions. As best as I know.
1. Depends where you are and how well stuff is protected. Remember the sourcebooks frequently reinforce that there are people STARVING in the barrens, and many are hungry. When you get to that point 100 nuyen is suddenly a LOT. Also in many regions obviously having something that costs 100 nuyen might get you jumped if you're alone. It seems reasonably that the flavorless soy products availible in 2070 are as cheap or cheaper than raman noodles with a bunch of vitamins genetically engineered in. So you can live for maybe a year on 100 nuyen.
2. I think you're about right. The streetline has a very nice price tag. In the BBB gangers have them, though any gang with any actual source of income would probably look to heavy pistols sooner rather than later, and would certainly like heavier things . However they probably have a family it would be nice to feed.
Only one SR book really delt with this to my knowledge. And that was "Elven Fire" in it one larger gang had thrown some armor on some trucks and had some AK like weapons. The other gang was the Ancients, which gets some cred on the side from the Tir and had access to sniper rifles and a few LAWs.
3. When 100 nuyen will keep you alive a year you don't need too much. People on the edge of the barrens might have jobs as servants or some such like they do in Bombay.
For those deeper in there is a dump out there to try and find usable scraps in and there are also the giant towers of smog to work in. I expect lots of situations where you get one person working a crappy job to support a family until they get ground down.
You probably also get some "feed the poor" stuff moving cheap food in.
4. Again this varies by region. But the books indicate that food truck moving in to the shops are regularly attacked by the inhabitants. So in some regions shops, such as they are, are likely more like a fort where you slide money or sellable scraps through a hole and get your food in another or something along those lines. Than you have to get away with your food. Gang membership likely helps a lot with that.
5. Buildings vary depending on where you are. But from the old maps it certainly looks like you also get high rises out there that have been abandoned for a long time. But you have some room to decide how much stuff got built up before it went to crap. You could have occasional high rises or lots of them.
6. Books idicate the star only goes in if something happens that threatens something they and taxpayers care about. But they are quite capable of getting in if they really want too. Also they have these nifty "land shark" missles and they don't have to worry about collateral damage too much. So if your guys raise nine kinds of hell in a AAA area and then head back to their turf having the star follow them with a high flying areal drone and then drop off a little surprise might be how they'd handle it.
7. Lots of all of that. Since sex is probably the best thing in many of these peoples lives but birth control is expensive you get children. It's how those areas stay populated. Think africa.
So some pieces of info from the older sources I do have.
First much of the barrens is walled off. Theses are walls seperating it from the AAA neighborhoods it's next to. Security seems to drop where bad neighborhoods in other districts contact the barrens.
Next Redmond barrens isn't homogenous for security rating. This from the old Seatle sourcebooks. The older ones had maps that showed where things were and gave listings of the security ratings of different areas. In Redmond there was a touristville section in west up against it's neighbors. This is a place that would have matrix connectivity and be the "seedy part of town" area where you'd go for cheep drugs and cheaper hookers. There is a little money there. As you spread out you start seeing regions that are completly off the grid.
Also note that Redmond doesn't have the syndicate presence that the Pullayup barrens do. Meaning gangs tend to not be as well equiped.
Anyway as for specific questions. As best as I know.
1. Depends where you are and how well stuff is protected. Remember the sourcebooks frequently reinforce that there are people STARVING in the barrens, and many are hungry. When you get to that point 100 nuyen is suddenly a LOT. Also in many regions obviously having something that costs 100 nuyen might get you jumped if you're alone. It seems reasonably that the flavorless soy products availible in 2070 are as cheap or cheaper than raman noodles with a bunch of vitamins genetically engineered in. So you can live for maybe a year on 100 nuyen.
2. I think you're about right. The streetline has a very nice price tag. In the BBB gangers have them, though any gang with any actual source of income would probably look to heavy pistols sooner rather than later, and would certainly like heavier things . However they probably have a family it would be nice to feed.
Only one SR book really delt with this to my knowledge. And that was "Elven Fire" in it one larger gang had thrown some armor on some trucks and had some AK like weapons. The other gang was the Ancients, which gets some cred on the side from the Tir and had access to sniper rifles and a few LAWs.
3. When 100 nuyen will keep you alive a year you don't need too much. People on the edge of the barrens might have jobs as servants or some such like they do in Bombay.
For those deeper in there is a dump out there to try and find usable scraps in and there are also the giant towers of smog to work in. I expect lots of situations where you get one person working a crappy job to support a family until they get ground down.
You probably also get some "feed the poor" stuff moving cheap food in.
4. Again this varies by region. But the books indicate that food truck moving in to the shops are regularly attacked by the inhabitants. So in some regions shops, such as they are, are likely more like a fort where you slide money or sellable scraps through a hole and get your food in another or something along those lines. Than you have to get away with your food. Gang membership likely helps a lot with that.
5. Buildings vary depending on where you are. But from the old maps it certainly looks like you also get high rises out there that have been abandoned for a long time. But you have some room to decide how much stuff got built up before it went to crap. You could have occasional high rises or lots of them.
6. Books idicate the star only goes in if something happens that threatens something they and taxpayers care about. But they are quite capable of getting in if they really want too. Also they have these nifty "land shark" missles and they don't have to worry about collateral damage too much. So if your guys raise nine kinds of hell in a AAA area and then head back to their turf having the star follow them with a high flying areal drone and then drop off a little surprise might be how they'd handle it.
7. Lots of all of that. Since sex is probably the best thing in many of these peoples lives but birth control is expensive you get children. It's how those areas stay populated. Think africa.
See, Sunnyside, that's a lot more in line with my view of the Barrens, and a lot more eloquent than my overreaction to Serbitars shiny happy poor people.
To reiterate the really big point: 100 nuyen ain't much to a shadowrunner, and to the man on the street it's probably not too big a deal either.
To a starving barren's rat that's probably more money than he's ever seen in his life... and depending on where in the barrens he is, even that much money might be useless too him unless he can trade it for something useful to someone who DOES talk to people who use money.
To reiterate the really big point: 100 nuyen ain't much to a shadowrunner, and to the man on the street it's probably not too big a deal either.
To a starving barren's rat that's probably more money than he's ever seen in his life... and depending on where in the barrens he is, even that much money might be useless too him unless he can trade it for something useful to someone who DOES talk to people who use money.
I like your input guys. But after reading Seattle Sourcebook (1st ed?), I'm considering starting in Pulyaup (sp?) instead. It's the second barren, and it contains more metas (orcs and elves specifically) than the Redmond. Also, police actually dare go in there sometimes, and can even stop without being ambushed all the time. So less Escape from New York and more RL slum style.
Still it is a slum, with at least 80% unemployment, rampant crime, most people are squatting, etc. Nice details like lava flows is kinda cool too, and spiritual connection can help explain why my party's magic users get their powers that quickly.
I was thinking that most slummers didn't have a SIN, thus lot's of the benefits of a comlink is wasted. You still can't take the subway, you don't have a bank account (and can't afford the black ones), you certainly can't afford the staggering 1k per rating for a fake SIN. Since you don't exist, you don't get a Matrix provider, thus you can't even access AR. So most of the reasons to have a comlink is moot.
The better off people here (no more than 20%, probably less) have low lifestyle, which means they might even have a SIN and a job. Of course, they have a hard time as they need to pay alot of protection money to the gangs and organized criminals, so their chances of advancement is about 0.
Weapons: Most low-level scum the PCs first encounter will be armed with only clubs and knives (using humanis thug stat), with the higher level enforcers having streetlines, colt americas or the occasional ares predator.
Most gangs of 30+ members will have at least a few SMGs, AK carbines, Uzis and MP-5s that are mostly just used in turf wars, and in the defense of their turf.
The major gangs will be better armed, with members carrying pistols (about half heavy), and the tougher types carring cheap assault rifles. They may even have heavier firepower stashed, like an Ingram WK, Aztech Striker, or grenades. Armor jackets should also be available, and gangers are likely to have their own LAN, commlinks and all.
Still it is a slum, with at least 80% unemployment, rampant crime, most people are squatting, etc. Nice details like lava flows is kinda cool too, and spiritual connection can help explain why my party's magic users get their powers that quickly.
I was thinking that most slummers didn't have a SIN, thus lot's of the benefits of a comlink is wasted. You still can't take the subway, you don't have a bank account (and can't afford the black ones), you certainly can't afford the staggering 1k per rating for a fake SIN. Since you don't exist, you don't get a Matrix provider, thus you can't even access AR. So most of the reasons to have a comlink is moot.
The better off people here (no more than 20%, probably less) have low lifestyle, which means they might even have a SIN and a job. Of course, they have a hard time as they need to pay alot of protection money to the gangs and organized criminals, so their chances of advancement is about 0.
Weapons: Most low-level scum the PCs first encounter will be armed with only clubs and knives (using humanis thug stat), with the higher level enforcers having streetlines, colt americas or the occasional ares predator.
Most gangs of 30+ members will have at least a few SMGs, AK carbines, Uzis and MP-5s that are mostly just used in turf wars, and in the defense of their turf.
The major gangs will be better armed, with members carrying pistols (about half heavy), and the tougher types carring cheap assault rifles. They may even have heavier firepower stashed, like an Ingram WK, Aztech Striker, or grenades. Armor jackets should also be available, and gangers are likely to have their own LAN, commlinks and all.
I don't get the impression that you need a SIN to use a commlink, anymore than you need a passport to access the internet. I'm thinking of it in terms of a pay-as-you-go phone.
I also wouldn't consider a used commlink to cost that much, since it's a discarded version from some corp type who has upgraded to a new one.
I base this idea on the fact that even in third world places mobile phones aren't that uncommon, although they'll likely be using scuffed up Nokia 3210s instead of iPhones.
I also wouldn't consider a used commlink to cost that much, since it's a discarded version from some corp type who has upgraded to a new one.
I base this idea on the fact that even in third world places mobile phones aren't that uncommon, although they'll likely be using scuffed up Nokia 3210s instead of iPhones.
| QUOTE (ornot) |
| I don't get the impression that you need a SIN to use a commlink, anymore than you need a passport to access the internet. I'm thinking of it in terms of a pay-as-you-go phone. I also wouldn't consider a used commlink to cost that much, since it's a discarded version from some corp type who has upgraded to a new one. I base this idea on the fact that even in third world places mobile phones aren't that uncommon, although they'll likely be using scuffed up Nokia 3210s instead of iPhones. |
To access the Matrix you need a comcode, which you get from your Matrix Service Provider for a fee. At least these would probably require a SIN, along with address and credit information. I mean at least my internet subscription require information like name, address, etc. I'm not sure if illegal aliens in the US can easily get an ISP without being registered or having an address.
That said, there are numerous "shadow" MSPs, some even specializing in catering to runners and others who wants complete anonymity. I just assumed that these services were too expansive for the starving, angry mob member.
And yeah of course they have mobiles in third world countries, but that doesen't mean that the starving people in Sudan has them.
In the UK all you need is a phone line and some means of paying. Combined with the ease of picking up a mobile phone with no strings... I tend to include matrix access in lifestyle costs, so those with a Low lifestyle would be considered to have matrix access, assuming they have the hardware. Sure, not all Barrens dwellers will be able to afford it - a bunch are squatters or homeless - but not every Barrens dweller is suffering from Kwashikor. If they were, they wouldn't be a problem for all that long. They'd be dead.
Perhaps the starving folk in Sudan don't have phones, but they are living in a) a warzone and b) a rural area. I get the impression that the barrens are rather more densely populated than the Sudanese bush.
I think the problem is that we have to consider that the Barrens vary a great deal depending on location. In some places most of the buildings have been leveled, and only violent sub-humans live there. Any non-residents that enter are likely to be eaten, but it's not all that bad.
Perhaps the starving folk in Sudan don't have phones, but they are living in a) a warzone and b) a rural area. I get the impression that the barrens are rather more densely populated than the Sudanese bush.
I think the problem is that we have to consider that the Barrens vary a great deal depending on location. In some places most of the buildings have been leveled, and only violent sub-humans live there. Any non-residents that enter are likely to be eaten, but it's not all that bad.
| QUOTE (ornot) |
| In the UK all you need is a phone line and some means of paying. Combined with the ease of picking up a mobile phone with no strings... I tend to include matrix access in lifestyle costs, so those with a Low lifestyle would be considered to have matrix access, assuming they have the hardware. Sure, not all Barrens dwellers will be able to afford it - a bunch are squatters or homeless - but not every Barrens dweller is suffering from Kwashikor. If they were, they wouldn't be a problem for all that long. They'd be dead. Perhaps the starving folk in Sudan don't have phones, but they are living in a) a warzone and b) a rural area. I get the impression that the barrens are rather more densely populated than the Sudanese bush. I think the problem is that we have to consider that the Barrens vary a great deal depending on location. In some places most of the buildings have been leveled, and only violent sub-humans live there. Any non-residents that enter are likely to be eaten, but it's not all that bad. |
Hmm, well things are different. As for costs included in lifestyle, that is all well and good but considering that most people in the barrens ARE squatters, thus most of them would not afford it. But as I've said everyone with low lifestyle WILL have matrix and comlinks, in addition to other stuff (like regular meals).
I used Sudan as an example as barrens are sometimes described as FERAL, not that far from a warzone. I believe however, that this is only small areas, while technology exists most places.
People die in the barrens... every day. People are born every day as well, and others are driven there in desparation, or to hide. Most of them barely get by. Getting the equivalent of cell phones is not a priority.
| QUOTE (FriendoftheDork) |
| Hmm, well things are different. As for costs included in lifestyle, that is all well and good but considering that most people in the barrens ARE squatters, thus most of them would not afford it. But as I've said everyone with low lifestyle WILL have matrix and comlinks, in addition to other stuff (like regular meals). I used Sudan as an example as barrens are sometimes described as FERAL, not that far from a warzone. I believe however, that this is only small areas, while technology exists most places. People die in the barrens... every day. People are born every day as well, and others are driven there in desparation, or to hide. Most of them barely get by. Getting the equivalent of cell phones is not a priority. |
I agree there are places in the Barrens where folk don't go unless they are utterly desperate. I guess I differ from you in that I still see most of the Barrens as places where people do actually live, albeit below the poverty line and in squalor. They may go hungry a lot of the time, but at times like that having a trid to watch or Matrix access for entertainment is about all that's getting them through the day. Frankly, in my view most of them are junkies for one thing or another who, if it came to it, would choose their fix over food anyway.
To me, the biggest reason for a squatter to have a used Meta Link commlink is that BTLs are the main vice in SR, and squatters would be the most likely to indulge in them. It's probably a used commlink, dead tech from several years ago, subscribed to a freeware band that bombards you with viral advertising, and the VR stuff will be generic and have static, your virtual girlfriend will have a plastic-like sheen, etc. But you can slot a Kong Chip in it and forget your miserable existence for awhile.
I think somewhere a sourcebook mentioned that the poor were one of the last large markets for non BTL drugs. Just the sort of stuff you can make cheaply as alchohol on the industreal scale (since it isn't cracked down on as hard now).
Puyallup isn't as impoverished for the most part as Redmond. I mean it's still not nice, but there seem to be more people getting jobs, bigger money coming in from Ft Lewis into the vice trades, and more funding from the syndicates. So that all kinda filters around.
So still bad, but people might have enough body fat and stores of food to survive an injury instead of staving and being eaten by devil rats. (again why you want to be in a gang).
I'd advise starting them off in Redmond. And at some point they should contemplate moving to Puyallup. It could make for some fun IC debating as they argue over holding their crappy turf vs moving to the greener pastures (which still aren't that green).
Puyallup isn't as impoverished for the most part as Redmond. I mean it's still not nice, but there seem to be more people getting jobs, bigger money coming in from Ft Lewis into the vice trades, and more funding from the syndicates. So that all kinda filters around.
So still bad, but people might have enough body fat and stores of food to survive an injury instead of staving and being eaten by devil rats. (again why you want to be in a gang).
I'd advise starting them off in Redmond. And at some point they should contemplate moving to Puyallup. It could make for some fun IC debating as they argue over holding their crappy turf vs moving to the greener pastures (which still aren't that green).
Sorry for the double post but I almost forgot the most importent part about a gang/barrens related campaign.
Keep them down!
At least for a while. Resist the urge to throw thousands of nuyen at them like in a regular shadowrun campaign. Now, if you just want a regular SR game, but want them to have a base in the barrens ignore this.
But if you want them to be gang remember the man is keeping them down.
They don't have SINs. This means they can't even walk out of the barrens without getting star on them because they lack a comlink broadcasting their SIN.
Don't start them off with a fixer that drips high paying jobs. They're a gang. They know their street. A mile away? They've heard of that, maybe haven't been there. Make them figure out how to scrape up some starting cred.
Also give them some other responsibilities (Orcs girlfriend shows up with 7 new babies). Also people in their turf know them. And will try and beg cash out of them. The runners may also still have parents around. This all sucks up their funds.
Also WATCH OUT FOR THE MAGIC USERS. In these sorts of campagns it's all to common to see the wanna be samies restricted to nearly no gear. But the mages are full on spell slinging munchkins. They haven't had time to learn all that stuff. From mentors or class. Also there is an astral count all over the place, with the enviromental and mental suffering. Also other gangers tend to be jealous of the mages, and rival gangs will want them dead first and formost.
Keep them down!
At least for a while. Resist the urge to throw thousands of nuyen at them like in a regular shadowrun campaign. Now, if you just want a regular SR game, but want them to have a base in the barrens ignore this.
But if you want them to be gang remember the man is keeping them down.
They don't have SINs. This means they can't even walk out of the barrens without getting star on them because they lack a comlink broadcasting their SIN.
Don't start them off with a fixer that drips high paying jobs. They're a gang. They know their street. A mile away? They've heard of that, maybe haven't been there. Make them figure out how to scrape up some starting cred.
Also give them some other responsibilities (Orcs girlfriend shows up with 7 new babies). Also people in their turf know them. And will try and beg cash out of them. The runners may also still have parents around. This all sucks up their funds.
Also WATCH OUT FOR THE MAGIC USERS. In these sorts of campagns it's all to common to see the wanna be samies restricted to nearly no gear. But the mages are full on spell slinging munchkins. They haven't had time to learn all that stuff. From mentors or class. Also there is an astral count all over the place, with the enviromental and mental suffering. Also other gangers tend to be jealous of the mages, and rival gangs will want them dead first and formost.
@ Serbitar
And for another way of viewing the world which is probably more in-line with Spike read my responce a few posts down...
As for the way I see the Barrens, sure at the edges it is basically just a really poor slum, and you'd even see those used nearly dead comm-links and trids, however once you go deeper then things start breaking down quickly and the only "civilazation" you can even hope to find is really tribes which happen to call themselves Gangs.
And for another way of viewing the world which is probably more in-line with Spike read my responce a few posts down...
As for the way I see the Barrens, sure at the edges it is basically just a really poor slum, and you'd even see those used nearly dead comm-links and trids, however once you go deeper then things start breaking down quickly and the only "civilazation" you can even hope to find is really tribes which happen to call themselves Gangs.
This is of especial interest to me, since my character, a troll wolf shaman, has set up permanent residence in a small shack in the barrens (It was originally a part of a construction site) I reasoned that he had stolen electricity, stolen water from a line going to one of the factories, and food from various local stores, either gang protected or with corporate security. He's paid the local gangs and other interested parties to recognise his ownership of the place (paid them a lot, 200 k to be precise) and gives out free healing in order to gain the general goodwill of the barrens populace. He knows that anything he does for these people is just a drop in the desert, but he does it anyway. OF course, being both a troll and a formidable shaman is the only thing that's kept him from being killed and his things from being taken, but yeah.
| QUOTE (ornot) | ||
I agree there are places in the Barrens where folk don't go unless they are utterly desperate. I guess I differ from you in that I still see most of the Barrens as places where people do actually live, albeit below the poverty line and in squalor. They may go hungry a lot of the time, but at times like that having a trid to watch or Matrix access for entertainment is about all that's getting them through the day. Frankly, in my view most of them are junkies for one thing or another who, if it came to it, would choose their fix over food anyway. |
Hmm, true BTLs are very common in the barrens, and you'd probably need a commlink to use one. Perhaps there are people you can go to where you can pay to rent a commlink in order to use the BTL. And every real addict will probably have some cheap crappy commlink and trid net as well.
And it's true, people don't always make smart priorities. Perhaps you could get some old used meta link for only 50:nuyen:
@ Sunnyside: The reason why I consider Puyallup is because conditions are less extreme, which means they are more likely to encounter Lone Star, normal buisiness and normal people. I'm also facinated by organized crime, and having highly trained brutally efficient and well equipped yakuza around makes their own poverty that much starker.
Why do you reccomend Redmond?
As for keeping them down, well the first few sessions at least they won't get hold of that much equipment or karma, as they'll be mostly doing odd "jobs" in the slum. Either helping out those who need it (like saving a family of squatters from Devil Rats), or doing extortion/bribery/thuggery missions for bigger gangs or even the Mob/Yakuza/Triad.
Then after a few sessions (4-5?) they will get enough rep that a fixxer may notice them. Of course, he'll have to test them and they'll be doing missions for him instead - espionage, sabotage, B&E etc... mostly against gangs and other low-security installations. After they've earned his trust and respect, THEN they will meet... Mr Johnson! AT this point they should be closer to starting runners (but less skilled, less magic and less nuyen.
As for balancing magic vs cyber, you might have missed the small part of not letting anyone start with magic at ALL! Those who aspire to be adepts or mages have to take the Latent Awakening positive quality (costs 5 BPs). During play, their powers will wake, and they'll get Magic 1 and one spell or Power. They'll have to pay the difference between the Latent Awakening quality and the magic quality they want (Adept 0, Mystic Adept 5, Magician 10, Technomancer 10) in karma.
When they become runners they should have magic 2 or 3, and potential samurai should have gotten some cyberware (either through fixxer if good, or through yakuza if less good), with alot of strings attached. Perhaps no more than 20-30k worth? It sounds alot in such a poor, gritty game, but really isn't a point of magic worth 10k?
Let me see... improving magic costs 10 BPs... that a staggering 50k worth of nuyen in character generation!
Any tips here? I want my cybermen to be as good as the adepts and mages with their cyberware, all the while not having to pay for it with karma. Being awakened will probably pay off in the long run anyway.
Hmm, just checked what an Adept with Magic 1 can do... not much. In fact, any cybered character with 10k to spend will do alot better.
A magician won't be that much better off... Since he can't spend BPs on magic skills until he gets Magic 1, he will barely be able to cast spells at all. He could theoretically pull off a Improved Reflexes spell at force 2, but he would proably have to use edge to pull it off, and then resist 3 physical damage - slightly risky. Even so, since he can't afford a sustaining focus, he won't be able to fight efficently with it, so it's best used to boost another party member (such as the tank).
I think it might be a little harsh to require a latent awakening character to pay the difference in quality points. It is, after all, up to the GM what they awaken into, and when they awaken. And they have to spend karma to get their magical powers anyway, while their cybered up allies will get bonuses from any 'ware they pick up, plus the advantages of karma to spend on skills.
| QUOTE (ornot) |
| I think it might be a little harsh to require a latent awakening character to pay the difference in quality points. It is, after all, up to the GM what they awaken into, and when they awaken. And they have to spend karma to get their magical powers anyway, while their cybered up allies will get bonuses from any 'ware they pick up, plus the advantages of karma to spend on skills. |
Hmm, my post didn't show up?
Oh well, summary:
1. I want it more expensive to be a magician than an adept, thus I require the difference to be paid. They can use BPs instead for the same purpose, but those are more worth than karma.
2. As for the difference in magic vs cyber: Well yeah cyberwarrior doesen't need to spend BPs on adept or magician qualities: They don't need that in normal play either, thus they SHOULD have more points to spend on attributes and skills.
The major benefit is that cyberwars don't have to spend BPs on nuyen - but then again everyone start with less BPs and equipment anyway.
I suggested the Redmond barrens simply because it's more extreme, more racist too. Also it's a bit less obvious how to get "traction" there. In Pullayup with organized crime around there are plenty of groups to try and hook up with. In redmond the guys around aren't really any better off than you are. You also avoid having you guys being able to ambush some well armed guys to rapidly equip themselves. And again they can choose to move, which could be interesting.
Starting latent might actually work well. It'll leave them deeply starved for Karma and it will take some time before they really get up to speed and start being highly effective. Particularily if you don't allow them to awaken until more standard Shadowrun type nuyen starts coming in so it's more like the adept gets their ability and the cyberguy gets his muscel replacement at the same time. (Maybe the latents need expensive trainers or something).
Starting latent might actually work well. It'll leave them deeply starved for Karma and it will take some time before they really get up to speed and start being highly effective. Particularily if you don't allow them to awaken until more standard Shadowrun type nuyen starts coming in so it's more like the adept gets their ability and the cyberguy gets his muscel replacement at the same time. (Maybe the latents need expensive trainers or something).
I always scratch my head when I see the words 'Highly Trained' along side 'organized criminals'....
Training requires discipline, respect for authority, and so forth. People become criminals because they have a limited amount of ability to do any of that. OC's have dangerous violent men, certainly, but any training is more likely to be individual rather than organized. It's darwinian selection that makes them more dangerous than other criminals...
In reality, what makes organized criminals so dangerous is that they are willing to kill you for whatever reason. Willing. That's a huge step for joey on the street. Couple the willingness to kill with numbers and the average chump has a problem.
Now: Once you start talking about, say, the Colombian cartels.... IN COLOMBIA, where they are less criminals and more 'shadow governments', then you'll see training and 'army' mentalities. But those types will only be working in their native countries for the most part.
Training requires discipline, respect for authority, and so forth. People become criminals because they have a limited amount of ability to do any of that. OC's have dangerous violent men, certainly, but any training is more likely to be individual rather than organized. It's darwinian selection that makes them more dangerous than other criminals...
In reality, what makes organized criminals so dangerous is that they are willing to kill you for whatever reason. Willing. That's a huge step for joey on the street. Couple the willingness to kill with numbers and the average chump has a problem.
Now: Once you start talking about, say, the Colombian cartels.... IN COLOMBIA, where they are less criminals and more 'shadow governments', then you'll see training and 'army' mentalities. But those types will only be working in their native countries for the most part.
| QUOTE (sunnyside @ Mar 27 2007, 10:14 AM) |
| I suggested the Redmond barrens simply because it's more extreme, more racist too. Also it's a bit less obvious how to get "traction" there. In Pullayup with organized crime around there are plenty of groups to try and hook up with. In redmond the guys around aren't really any better off than you are. You also avoid having you guys being able to ambush some well armed guys to rapidly equip themselves. And again they can choose to move, which could be interesting. Starting latent might actually work well. It'll leave them deeply starved for Karma and it will take some time before they really get up to speed and start being highly effective. Particularily if you don't allow them to awaken until more standard Shadowrun type nuyen starts coming in so it's more like the adept gets their ability and the cyberguy gets his muscel replacement at the same time. (Maybe the latents need expensive trainers or something). |
Hmm, you do have a point about it being too easy to get good guns and stuff if yakuzas are patrolling the streets (even if killing and looting them might be stupid). PCs have an odd way of being in the right place at the right time, and unless you ALWAYS have hidden witnesses around (metagaming), they won't necessarily get caught.
Starting latent... yeah this is exactly what I'm gunning for, the cyber and magic coming pretty much at the same rate, so that no type of runner is disadvantaged. If there is a discrepancy, I would rather it favor the cyber than the magic, as magic has alot of advantages as it is, and since I will make mages few and far between, it is very easy for mages to go astral, use spells discreetly, and so on. And the idea of an Adept being just as effective as a street samurai in combat, without having to spend a single nuyen on stuff aside from weapons
So if I err, I want to err on the side of cyber.
After all, cyberware is immensively more common than magic, apall me (at least it's not as bad as it was in 3rd ed!).
@ Spike:
Well in this word organized crime has moved forward. The Yakuza has discipline, respect for authority (within the yakuza), guns and skills. They may not be anywhere near SWAT teams or special forces, but they sure can fight as good and organized as normal soldiers. And the Mob had to evolve in order to compete, thus average thugs and goons might not be enough for them anymore. Not that they are not still used, but org. crime should also have disciplined teams for the heavy fighting.
The example of a Triad Posse in the RB actually has professional rating 4! That's above Lone Star squads even, although Corp spec. forces like Red Samurai are slightly above them (not to mention better equipped).
Nice example with Colombia, as I believe the crime levels in places like Pulyaup is pretty much the same as down there, and instead of cartels and guerilla running the show, the Yakuza and the Mob is.
Hey guys just wanted to let you know the show's on the road and we've played the first session. The characters are: Elf face/adept, Troll fighter/street samurai (player named him Trog without knowing what it means in SR - LOL!), Human sorcerer/mage and Human thief/hacker.
If you want I can make a new thread for an After Action Report... what do you guys think?
If you want I can make a new thread for an After Action Report... what do you guys think?
Well, I for one always enjoy reading a good war-story.
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Well, I for one always enjoy reading a good war-story. |
phew, finally
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.