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Baphomet69
So...I was reading over the Traveller books again (LBB 1-3) and once again it occurred to me how stupid the computer rules were. Not only are they dreadfully obsolete by today's standards, we're talking 3,000 years from NOW!

So I got to thinking, they should have wireless networks and computer systems at least similar to Shadowrun (4th Ed.). That got me thinking that they should also have things like cybernetics, nanotech, etc. So I started thinking that it would be cool to convert those ideas into Traveller. Then I realized that that would be a vast undertaking.

And not only the 'tech' side of Traveller has always seemed a bit wonky to me, but also their combat system (though gritty, it also seemed...odd).

Then it dawned on me. Instead of taking parts of Shadowrun and trying to fit them into Traveller, what if you took the good parts of Traveller, the fluff, the Imperium, the starships and interstellar travel and the background and used that as the setting for a Shadowrun game. Just strip out the magic, awakened races and setting, make new skills related to spacecraft and the like, make only one kind of adept character, Psionic, and give him 'abilities' that match Traveller Psionics, and viola!

The biggest drawback is that I always liked Traveller's character creation, though they always seemed a bit light on skills, especially compared to SR. One possible solution would be to kludge something together...or better yet, maybe use the Traveller character creation but increase the number of skills earned?

-=OBLIGATORY DISCLAIMER=-
I'm not looking to get flamed here, and I know this isn't 'Shadowrun' canon, but the SR game mechanics are great (as is the setting). I'm just brainstorming on what it would be like to combine two of the best games of all time...

I considered posting this on the Traveller forums as well, but I figured I'd get flamed there worse, at least here, I'm using this game's mechanics...

P.P.P.S. I already know the phrase, "Just strip out the magic, awakened races and setting" is going to draw comments of 'then it isn't Shadowrun!' However, I'm talking about making a hybrid with the weapons, cyber, combat and other game mechanics (even Shadowrunning) and putting them in a different set of clothes. No there is nothing wrong with SR's current set of clothes, but why can't SR have two sets of clothes? (to extend a metaphor waaay too far...
Baphomet69
Now that I think about it, you could even include the meta-human races as 'alien' races suitable for making PC's from too...Yeah, the SR background for them wouldn't fit, but it'd be cool to see a Troll sitting on the deck of a ship in an over-sized commanders chair...hehe
Ravor
You know, not being that familiar with Traveller I'm not really qualified to discuss its char-gen other then to say that I think it'd really suck to roll up a character who died before the game even started...

Still, if I were you I think I'd just file the serial numbers off the existing Shadowrun skills/weapons and not bother making anything new.
Baphomet69
Well for new skills, I only meant to add ones such as starship piloting, starship engineering, etc. The current skills for SR are fine for what I have in mind, and the equipment is better IMHO in SR than most in Traveller, for the time-period.

As for the dying in character creation thing, the Traveller character gen system was so cool (again, IMHO) that it was a fun process. If your character died, rolling up another wasn't a chore, it was an opportunity to play with the char gen again... wink.gif
Garrowolf
I am doing something like this already. Just create templates like the archetypes for Shadowrun. Don't try to make them all the same point value. In fact try to make a few that are different. Then just give the PCs a set number of points and they can use anything extra to flesh out their characters. This way you can have a template for each service. Create a series of qualities to reflect the setting.

Here is the skill list I used:

Academics - This covers most of those knowledges.
Astrogation This allows you to plot complex courses and figure out where things are. It also covers some area knowledge.
Athletics This covers dodge as well, Ambidexterity This removes the penalty to off hand use (-2), Diving requires swimming, Escape Artist, Parachuting, Swimming, Zero-G Adaptation This removes the penalty to low G (-2) and ZG (-4) movement.
Brawling This covers basic strikes and such. More effects can be gained through specialties into full martial arts.
Corporations This covers knowledge and etiquette of corporations.
Cultures Each specialty covers different cultural habits as well as dialects and languages
Cybertechnology This covers the construction and repair of cybernetic devices.
Drive This covers 2d movement.
Electronic Warfare This covers signal processing, cryptography, interception, and jamming.
Electronics This covers the electrical systems of anything from ships to door locks.
Engineering This covers management of power systems and damage control.
Explosives Those things that go boom.
Firearms Each category beyond pistols and shotguns will require a specialty: Automatics, Longarms This covers use of rifles.
Grappling This assumes soft grappling. This is important because it will actually work versus most armor.
Hard Grappling - Damages joints instead of locking them up.
Gunnery Shooting from a ship.
Cold Shot Gunnery This covers firing without targeting lasers.
Hacking This is specifically computer security circumvention.
Instruction This covers teaching others and limits how much you can teach.
Intimidation This covers aggressive communications.
Investigation This covers gathering information and asking the right questions.
Leadership Can give bonuses to others
Mechanical This covers hardware repairs and construction on a ship, well as fabrication of parts with a minifac.
Medicine This reflects larger amount of understanding of medical procedures. At a basic level it covers first aid. More specialties are required for more depth.
Melee This will cover basic knives and clubs. Each type beyond that will require a specialty. Archery and thrown are placed in this because they are not particularly important to the setting and mostly the same kind of person is going to be mastering them. Specialties: Archery, Quick Draw, Shields, Swords, Thrown
Negotiation Important for getting a good deal.
Operations This is a skill for knowing the correct procedures to use station or ship board equipment.
Perception Noticing things
Performance Each type is a specialty.
Pilot This covers basic flight. Different types require a specialty: Aerofighter, Capitol Ship, Drones, Heavy Transports, Shuttlecraft This covers basic use of workbees, OTVs, and shuttle piloting, Starfighter, Transports
Power Armor This allows you to control a suit of powered armor. Gunnery is still used to shoot with.
Resistance This covers resistance to torture and harsh elements such as space.
Science Each science is a specialty
Security This is the understanding of security procedures and circumventing them.
Socialize This covers nicer situations. Each type of etiquette is a specialty.
Sensors - This allows you to sift through large amounts of data from sensors and focus them at greater ranges.
Stealth This covers sneaking around.
Streetwise Knowing what to do in bad parts of a city.
Subterfuge This covers lying well. Specialties: Blend, Disguise, Innuendo, Forgery
Survival Each type is a specialty: Airless Moon/Space, Ice World, Navigation, Tracking, Water World
Tactics Different types are covered as specialties.

Skills are broad categories. Specialties are more specific instances but if you don't have a specialty and you need one then you are still defaulting - just to the skill. If you don't have the skill at all you can only default to general skill use and not to a specialty.

That is some of the basic stuff that I did.
Baphomet69
That's cool, Garrowolf, thanks! Do you have any Templates made up yet? I suppose aside from the various services listed in Traveller, other viable options might be Mercenary, Corp Employee, Criminal (or break this into different types).
Garrowolf
Yes but not typed up yet. I probably will in the next day or too.

I made a few changes to the attributes too. I got rid of the quickness and reaction and just had dex because I have no twitch cyberware in my setting. Personally I think that it leads to a situation where you have to have it (or somebody does in the group) and it forces the character choices too much. Plus for a scifi adventure setting it seems to work better without extra IPs for anyone.

I also made composure as an attribute because I use it all the time. I wanted people to choose the either have it higher or lower. And I replaced intuition with wits because it sounds better for the setting.

Other then that it is pretty basic.

Have you though about how you want to deal with Education and Social Status. For education I used the Academic skill. You can put a lot of specialties under it.

Oh that reminds me. In my game the skill ratings run from 1-5 and the specialties run +1 to +4. You can have as many specialties as you want. Most people have a 1 in something they are trained in but don't focus on, 2 for something they do pretty well and a 3 for something they are good at. All the templates are based around this. Then they will have a +1 or +2 in specialties. It gives the PCs somewhere to go. Specialties at character creation cost the same (1 bp for 1 skill rating) as skills do.

For social status you will need a list of qualities. I remember it being pretty important in Traveller. I would also suggest any false IDs cost based on what social status it fakes.

I'll try and type some of the templates up tonight. I am working on figuring out the qualities as well. I'll be up all night anyway.
Garrowolf
Character Templates

Early Life

Academic Upbringing
Academics
Cultures
Science
Socialize

Belter Upbringing
Astrogation
Athletics: ZG adaptation
Operations
Science
Streetwise

Criminal Upbringing
Athletics
Brawling
Intimidation
Stealth
Streetwise
Subterfuge

Frontier Upbringing
Athletics
Brawling
Cultures
Drive
Survival

Mercantile Upbringing
Corporations
Negotiations
Streetwise
Subterfuge

Military Brat
Academics
Athletics
Brawling
Cultures
Drive
Intimidation

Scientific Upbringing
Academics
Electronics
Operations
Science

Station Upbringing
Astrogation
Athletics: ZG adaptation
Corporations
Cultures
Drive
Operations
Science

Wealthy Upbringing
Academics
Corporations
Cultures
Performance
Socialize
Subterfuge

Profession Templates

Bounty Hunter (attributes 15, skills 39)
Frontier Upbringing (Mars)
Strength: 3
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 4
Intelligence: 2
Wits: 3
Charisma: 2
Composure: 3

Athletics 3, Brawling 3, Cultures 2, Drive 2, Electronics 1 (Maglocks +1), Firearms 3, Grappling 2, Hacking 2, Intimidation 3, Investigation 2, Negotiation 2, Perception 3, Security 2, Stealth 1, Streetwise 2, Subterfuge 2, Survival 1 (Tracking +2)

Enforcer (attributes 11, skills 30)
Criminal Upbringing
Strength: 4
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 3
Intelligence: 1
Wits: 2
Charisma: 1
Composure: 2

Athletics 3, Brawling 3, Drive 2, Electronics 1 (Maglocks +1), Firearms 2, Grappling 2 (Hard Grappling +1), Intimidation 2 (Torture +1),
Melee 2, Perception 2, Resistance 3, Security 1, Stealth 1, Streetwise 2, Subterfuge 1

Engineer (attributes 13, skills 42)
Belter Upbringing, Station Upbringing, Titan Terraforming
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 2
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 2
Intelligence: 4
Wits: 3
Charisma: 2
Composure: 3

Academics 2, Astrogation 1, Athletics 1(ZG Adaptation +1), Cultures 1, Drive 1, Electronics 3 (Power Systems +1, Computers +1), Engineering 3 (Power Allocation +1, Damage Control +1), Mechanical 3 (Plasma Torch Engines +2, Inertial Displacement Drive +2, Life Support +1), Operations 3, Pilot 1 (Shuttlecraft +1, Drones +1), Science 3 (Structural Engineering +1), Security 2, Sensors 2, Streetwise 1, Socialize 1(Titan Corporate +1)

Explorer
Academic Upbringing, Wealthy Upbringing
Strength: 3
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 4
Intelligence: 4
Wits: 4
Charisma: 3
Composure: 4

Academics 3 (History +1), Astrogation 3, Athletics 3, Corporations 3, Cultures 3, Drive 1, Firearms 1, Instruction 3, Investigation 3 (Archeology +1), Leadership 1, Medicine 1, Negotiation 2 (Grants +1), Operations 2, Perception 1 (Search +2), Performance 1 (Piano +2, Speech +1), Science 2 (Chemistry +1), Socialize 1(Science Community +1), Sensors 1(Deep Imaging +2), Survival 2 (Navigation +1, Ice World +1)

Intruder (attributes 13, skills 42)
Belter Upbringing, Criminal Upbringing
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 2
Willpower: 3
Intelligence: 2
Wits: 3
Charisma: 3
Composure: 3

Astrogation 1, Athletics 2 (ZG adaptation +1), Brawling 1, Corporations 2, Cultures 2, Electronics 2 (Alarms +1, Maglocks +1), Explosives 2, Hacking 3, Intimidation 1, Investigation 1(Casing +1), Negotiations 2 (Fencing +1), Operations 2, Perception 3, Science 1, Security 3, Stealth 3, Streetwise 2 (Black Market +1), Subterfuge 2 (Disguise +1)


Merchant (attributes 15, skills 31)
Belter Upbringing, Merchantile Upbringing
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 2
Stamina: 2
Willpower: 4
Intelligence: 3
Wits: 4
Charisma: 4
Composure: 3

Academics 2, Astrogation 3, Athletics 1 (ZG Adapt +1), Corporations 3, Cultures 3, Investigation 2, Negotiation 3, Operations 1, Perception 2, Science 1, Socialize 3, Streetwise 3, Subterfuge 3

Naval Officier (attributes 13, skills 60)
Station Upbringing, Academic Upbringing, Earth Alliance
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 3
Intelligence: 3
Wits: 2
Charisma: 2
Composure: 3

Academics 3, Astrogation 2 (Belter System +1, EA Space +1), Athletics 2 (ZG Adapt +1), Corporations 2 (Ship Recognition +2), Cultures 2, Drive 1, Electronic Warfare 2, Electronics 2, Engineering 2, Firearms 1, Gunnery 2, Instruction 2, Intimidation 1 (Military +1), Leadership 2, Medicine 1, Negotiation 1 (Reqisitions +1), Operations 3, Perception 2, Pilot 1 (Capitol Ship +1, Drones +2, Shuttlecraft +1), Science 2, Security 2, Socialize 1 (Military +2, Government Officials +1), Sensors 3, Tactics 2 (Space Combat +2)

Security Forces (attributes 13, skills 49)
Station Upbringing
Strength: 3
Dexterity: 2
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 3
Intelligence: 2
Wits: 3
Charisma: 2
Composure: 3

Astrogation 1, Atheltics 2 (ZG adapt +1), Brawling 1, Corporations 2, Cultures 3, Drive 2, Firearms 3, Grappling 1 (Hard Grappling +2), Instruction 1, Intimidation 2 (Criminals +1), Investigation 2 (Forensics +1), Leadership 1, Medicine 1 (First Aid +2), Melee 1 (Stun Baton +1), Operations 2, Perception 2 (Suspicious Behavior +1), Science 1, Security 3, Sensors 1 (Personal Scanners +1), Stealth 1, Streetwise 1 (Gather Information +1), Subterfuge 1, Tactics 1 (Security +1)


Smuggler (attributes 19, skills 38)
Criminal Upbringing, Belter Upbringing
Strength: 3
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 4
Intelligence: 2
Wits: 4
Charisma: 3
Composure: 4

Astrogation 3, Athletics 2 (ZG Adaptation +1), Brawling 2, Corporations 1, Cultures 2, Electronics Warfare 2, Electronics 1, Firearms 2, Gunnery 2, Intimidation 2, Negotiation 2, Operations 1, Perception 2, Pilot 1 (Shuttlecraft +1, Transports +1), Science 1, Security 2, Sensors 2, Streetwise 3, Subterfuge 2

Soldier - Army or Marine (attributes 12, skills 43)
Military Brat, Belter Upbringing, Earth Alliance
Strength: 3
Dexterity: 4
Stamina: 4
Willpower: 3
Intelligence: 1
Wits: 2
Charisma: 1
Composure: 2

Athletics 3, Brawling 2, Corporations 1, Culture 1 (Military +1), Drive 1, Explosives 3, Firearms 2 (Automatics +1, Longarms +1), Grappling 2 (Hard Grappling +1), Gunnery 2, Intimidation 3, Leadership 2, Medicine 1, Melee 2, Perception 2, Power Armor 2, Resistance 3, Security 1, Stealth 1, Survival 1 (Navigation +1, Tracking +1), Tactics 1 (Small Unit +1)

Add skills to reflect specific type of soldier.

Space Monkey (attributes 11, skills 39)
Station Upbringing
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 2
Intelligence: 2
Wits: 3
Charisma: 1
Composure: 3

Astrogation 2, Athletics 1 (ZG Adaptation +2), Brawling 1, Corporations 1, Cultures 1, Drive 1, Electronics 2, Engineering 1(Damage Control +2), Explosives 2, Firearms 1, Grappling 1 (ZG Combat +2), Mechanical 2 (Salvage +1), Medicine 1, Melee 1, Operations 3, Perception 1, Pilot 1 (Drones +1, Shuttlecraft +1), Resistance 2, Science 1, Sensors 2, Survival 1 (Space +1)

Starfighter Pilot (attributes 18, skills 50)
Station Upbringing, Arasaka Corporate Security Forces
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 4
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 4
Intelligence: 4
Wits: 4
Charisma: 2
Composure: 3

Academics 1, Astrogation 3, Athletics 1 (ZG Adaptation +1), Brawling 2, Corporations 2, (Arasaka +1), Culture 1, Drive 2, Electronic Warfare 3, Engineering 2, Firearms 1, Gunnery 3, Leadership 1, Medicine 1, Operations 2, Perception 3, Pilot 1 (Aerofighter +1, Drone +2, Shuttlecraft +1, Starfighter +2), Resistance 2, Science 2, Socialize 1 (Arasaka Corporate +1,Military Officers +1), Sensors 1 (Short Range +1), Survival 1 (Space +1), Tactics 1 (Space Combat +1)

Tactical Officer (attributes 15, skills 46)
Station Upbringing, Saeder Krupp
Strength: 2
Dexterity: 3
Stamina: 3
Willpower: 3
Intelligence: 3
Wits: 4
Charisma: 2
Composure: 3

Astrogation 3, Athletics 1(ZG Adapt +1), Corporations 1 (Saeder Krupp +2, Titan +1, CSC +1, Ship Recognition +2), Cultures 2, Drive 1, Electronics Warfare 3, Engineering 1, Firearms 1, Grappling 2, Gunnery 3, Operations 3, Perception 2, Pilot 1 (Drones +2), Science 2, Security 3, Sensors 2 (Short Range +1), Socialize 1 (SK corporate +1), Tactics 1 (Space Combat +2)

Garrowolf
You can probably modify these for your game. They are set up for my game which is a STL punk setting.

Any other character types you can think of?

Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Baphomet69)
P.P.P.S. I already know the phrase, "Just strip out the magic, awakened races and setting" is going to draw comments of 'then it isn't Shadowrun!'

...no flame from me. I applaud the idea. For one (as I mentioned in the Shadowrun Variants thread) I find the need to have to include some form of showy "mystical" power, be it Psionics, the Force, Lime Jello, or what ever you want to call it, to be ridiculous. This was one of the features I liked about the original Traveller. It was all tech, and at super high levels, tech took on an almost mystical quality of its own.

Including templates for the known alien races of the Traveller universe (Droyne, Aslan Vargr, etc), would be simple using the build point system.

As I also mentioned, I have been working up a futuristic setting of my own design using the SR3 game engine, as well as the alternate BP system, and Edges/Flaws from Shadowrun Companion. Starship design and rules are extrapolated from the naval design framework in Rigger 3 and autonomous drones are rather commonplace. Most other gear concepts are left pretty much as presented, just the names changed here & there along with some new gear specifically designed for the setting (...and no @#!% flying cars either!).

There are adepts of a sort but their concept and abilities derive from a different basis. There is a low level form of empathic ability that is primarily link and sensory based. It cannot be used to read thoughts, force others to do one's bidding, or "confuse the weak minded".
Thane36425
GURPS Traveller had many templates and different races. It also gave tips for doing crossover campaigns, crossing with magic or cyberpunk campaigns. I played a campaign that used GURPS Cyberpunk, Robots and Biotech. My personal character started out with cyber and biotech mods and ended up going full cyborg, which was helpful since he was in the scout services.
Garrowolf
But then you would have to run it in GURPS and who really wants that?
Baphomet69
I've been thinking about it some more and it seems the biggest difference between SR and Trav characters (at least from the player's POV) is that in SR, all your attributes, skills, etc. are chosen by you, whereas in Traveller, they are all random.

Aside from your template idea (which I like a lot but am not yet sold on), some that I've been tossing around:
1) Just use SR character creation system. Players get what skills they want, but this to me doesn't have the Traveller 'infrastructure' feel to it; with no prior service, etc. -not crazy about this option-

2) Use the Traveller character creation system (with SR skills). Has the Traveller feel, but players wouldn't have any direct say (or very little) in the form their character takes. -not crazy about this one either-

3) Something like: Let the characters decide their attributes, but then use the 'Prior Service Tables' system from Traveller, only making new skill tables using the SR skills instead of Trav's. Also could add new 'Specialist Schools' as possible assignments. Such as Special Forces School (for aspiring Street Sams), Electronic Warfare (for aspiring Deckers), etc.

Also, other prior services I've though of: Law Enforcement, Entertainment, Sports
TheRedRightHand
The more I think about it, the more I think ShadowTraveller could kick some serious ass.

I did a short HeroTraveller a while back, just so the players could have cyberware, bioware, etc... in a balanced way with the rest of the group. It worked out quite well, but as some people moved away and others joined that campaign (which was fully set up and based around the original characters) kind of feel to the wayside.

But a Shadowrun version of Traveller... now that is interesting....
Thane36425
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
But then you would have to run it in GURPS and who really wants that?

My point was that is is groundwork already done for this kind of campaign that could be used as a reference.
Baphomet69
Ooh, I just thought of something else. If you use the SR stats with Traveller career paths method of char gen, then each term roll for injury (replace or in addition to Survival roll?). If injured, the player doesn't leave service, his service gives him a replacement cyber (or biotech) part for the affected area...
Garrowolf
Have you looked at the lifepath system in Fusion or Cyberpunk? Basically it is a series of tables for each few years past a certain point.

What I would suggest is to start your players with a concept. Then have them roll on the tables. They can choose to stop there or keep rolling. The tables have a chance of something bad happening each year. Good things could be an increase in money, a free contact, or a bonus skill point. Each time they roll they get a set of skills at a certain rating in service skills or the equivalent skill points if they have those. Have being drummed out of the service one of bad things that is always possible. That will end the service rolls. If you want to you can have the table increase it's danger level after a while.

Then give the players the rest of the BPs after this stage.
Synner667
Hi,

I think the whole ShadowTrav thing is good and just the thing to keep things fresh, but I think it proves the point about 'pure' Cyberpunk and what it actually means ["it must have xx and yy and zz" type thinking]

Almost any RPG set in the future can end up being a Cyber game, as long as it allows Cybertechnology, computers, Bioware, Nanoware, etc.

It also shows how narrow some people's definitions are, if settting an RPG 3,000 years in the future can't include Magic and MetaRaces.


As an aside, I think the Buck Rogers game from TSR had gene engineered Humans as alien races - to be the Dwarfs and Elves.
WarHammer 40K does a good job of mixing 'fantasy' races into a future setting.


Anyways, an RPG is what you make of it, and I do think it's a good thing to mix'n'match to get what you want - I used the Aeon rules as a foundation, then bolted on everything from call of Cthulhu to Indiana Jones to Shadowrun to Traveller.

Once I had a rules and mechanics base that I was happy with [rules light, fun, flexible], everything else was just source material [nothing scares PCs more than realising there's no guarantee of what they might be involved in, or what they might encounter].


Then I wrote my own and now use them spin.gif



Just my thruppence..
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