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Waterlog Thistlebottom
Hey all.

I've been playing shadowrun since 3rd edition, but I've always played cybernetic combat type characters, but recently I have felt the need to stretch myself a bit with my roleplaying and have started to play magical characters.

One of the characters I am thinking about is an Adept (not much of a stretch but it's in the right direction). I was wondering if I take the Formula Spirit Pact positive quality is it possible for the Adept, providing she is on good terms with the spirit in question, to make the Free Spirit she has the pact with into an Inhabiting Ally Spirit? I would need to purchase the appropriate Arcana, Enchanting and Binding skills, and sink the appropriate Karma into it, but is it possible? Or are ally spirits only restricted to Mystic Adepts and Mages?

For the record I was thinking of Witchblade the whole time. biggrin.gif
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Waterlog Thistlebottom)

For the record I was thinking of Witchblade the whole time. biggrin.gif

I can see that. What you're after isn't really in the cards I'm afraid, a least not normally.

QUOTE
One of the characters I am thinking about is an Adept (not much of a stretch but it's in the right direction). I was wondering if I take the Formula Spirit Pact positive quality is it possible for the Adept, providing she is on good terms with the spirit in question, to make the Free Spirit she has the pact with into an Inhabiting Ally Spirit?


Generally not.
  1. Adepts can't do conjuring, so they can't get Allies.
  2. A Free Spirit that happened to once be an Ally is not your Ally even if you happen to make a pact with it or bind it.
  3. A ritual of change is not normally in the cards for a free spirit in any case.

That being said... if you really wanted you could be a Mystic Adept and get yourself an Ally spirit with Inhabitation and put it into a vessel that happened to be electromorphic bracelets. Sure, that's totally possible. Also you could have huge breasts and not wear pants.

Or you coud be a regular Adept and get yourself a Free Spirit associate who happened to be a Possession spirit to begin with, and then you could have that demon get into your electromorphic bracelets. And not wear pants.

-Frank
Thane36425
There are several kinds of pacts described in Street Magic, and if I recall, any character could get into such a Pact, not just full mages. The thing to keep in mind is that while the character may get certain abilities, varying with the kind of Pact, there is always a cost, again varying with the Pact. You can count on the spirit taking some of the character's Karma though, since that is what the spirit wants.

Spirits can't earn Karma on their own, so they have to get it from mortals. Thus the Spirit Pacts: a little power in exchange for Karma.

Unfortunately I don't have Street Magic to hand so I can't detail the Pacts.
Waterlog Thistlebottom
QUOTE

  1. Adepts can't do conjuring, so they can't get Allies.
  2. A Free Spirit that happened to once be an Ally is not your Ally even if you happen to make a pact with it or bind it.
  3. A ritual of change is not normally in the cards for a free spirit in any case.


1. A formula spirit pact with a Free Spirit circumvents the whole conjuring problem, as a Free Spirit can be summoned by anyone with possession of the formula (p108, even a mundane - all they have to do is concentrate), and the formula spirit pact (p108) means the characters body counts as the formula. As I understand this while my character is in possession of her body she can summon the Free Spirit.
2. Other way around. Its a Free Spirit that will become an Ally Spirit. It has never been an Ally Spirit before.
3. If the Free Spirit and the metahuman are good friends, and the free spirit feels it can achieve its goals better with the metahumans help (it will fall under one of the 6 different free spirit categories on p92-93), then it may be willing to become an Ally Spirit. If the Free Spirit then voluntarily inhabits a True Vessel (p88) you effectively have what I’m talking about, A Free Spirit who becomes an Inhabiting Ally Spirit.

QUOTE

if I recall, any character could get into such a Pact, not just full mages.


The Spirit Pact positive quality just says ‘Awakened character’, and as an Adept is awakened they qualify, conjuring skill or not (see point 1 above).

It does feel horribly munchkiny though… Am I just picking rules from all over the book to support my theory, or am I right, or am I partially right? I think I may have put too much thought into this, even if I am wearing pants... wink.gif

Note - all page references are from Street Magic.
tisoz
QUOTE (Waterlog Thistlebottom @ Mar 30 2007, 11:47 PM)
2. Other way around. Its a Free Spirit that will become an Ally Spirit. It has never been an Ally Spirit before.
3. If the Free Spirit and the metahuman are good friends, and the free spirit feels it can achieve its goals better with the metahumans help (it will fall under one of the 6 different free spirit categories on p92-93), then it may be willing to become an Ally Spirit.

2. See 3
3. You are using the general usage definition of the word Ally and trying to replace it with the specifically defined term from Shadowrun referred to as an Ally, with all of its specifically defined powers.

The types of free spirit categories listed on 92-92 are described in terms of motivation and personality, not origin.
The Entropic Wizard
RAW-fu, anyone?

QUOTE
1. A formula spirit pact with a Free Spirit circumvents the whole conjuring problem, as a Free Spirit can be summoned by anyone with possession of the formula (p108, even a mundane - all they have to do is concentrate), and the formula spirit pact (p108) means the characters body counts as the formula. As I understand this while my character is in possession of her body she can summon the Free Spirit.



Pg 103, Street Magic
QUOTE
To create an ally {spirit}, the initiate requires an appropriate sprit formula, spirit binding materials equal to the force of the ally, and must know the Ally Conjuration metamagic.


So, the Ally Spirit is created by the conjuror; who must also therefore be either a full Magician or Mystic Adept. It also means that a free spirit can never be a true Ally Spirit, RAW-wise. The Spirit Pact bit is a no-go, as well. You can indeed enter into a Formula pact with a spirit, but not for an Ally Spirit formula. That can only be obtained by a metaplanar quest (always a strictly individual thing), or by a thesis. The character who desires the Ally really has to be the one to conjure the spirit.

Read a bit deeper into what's in the book, me boyo. I think maybe you were just grabbit tidbits out of the book to support your characer, pants or no pants. biggrin.gif
knasser

You can't have it as an ally spirit in the strict rules sense of the word. You could get the character style and backstory that you wanted with a Free Spirit, though. Just keep feeding it karma to develop it. This is something that you will need to discuss with your GM. If a player came to me with that concept, then I would allow it if I trusted the player that they were intending to play it as they described it and weren't going to seek to exploit loopholes left, right and centre.

The biggest problem would be that for the price of a Spirit Pact (Formula) quality and a Force 1 spirit, at 5BP, the character has bought herself a +1 to all physical attributes via possession. Of course it's balanced because all of your mental stats then drop to 1. Eeek! (That's because you take the lowest mental stats of either the possessed or the possessor). Also, until you initiated and acquired the channelling metamagic, possession would have all sorts of negatives attached to it. I'm not familiar with Witchblade, but I'm assuming that you're talking about the spirit possessing or inhabiting (effectively killing her) your character to get the bonuses. If you're talking about the spirit inhabiting or possessing an item in your possession, then go for it, but I'm not sure what bonuses or effect you expect to get. At best, as a GM, I'd allow you to get better armour of sort when your possessed outfit gained Immunity to Normal Weapons (and it would be for the sake of a character build, rather than for the sake of RAW).

If you want an inhabited item as a Physical Adept, I would recommend getting the Spirit Pact (Formula) quality and specifying a weapon focus as the host. Free spirits have the magician quality so pay for a useful spell for it, such as Attribute Increase. You can feed the thing karma as you go, just like an Ally Spirit. Your GM should insist on using Inhabitation rather than Possession as otherwise your spirit will be far too useful. I think it would be balanced, but your GM is going to have to approve things and set a couple of BP costs for the non-RAW aspect such as designing your spirit. He'll also probably lay down some conditions stemming from the spirit's motivation and what it wants.

Hope this helps,

-K.
hyzmarca
The witchblade, for those who are unaware, is a sentient bracelet. Its primary ability allows alter its form, becoming armor and weapons for its wielder. It is also an absurdly powerful magical artifact with that can, among other things, heal, fire energy bolts, raise the dead, and turn back time (in the television series continuity).
It can only be wielded by a woman and will cause great arm to any man who tries to wear it, with the exception of a fellow who is a genetically altered clone of a woman from the bloodline which had a strong connection to the weapon. It is also very difficult to control. It will turn a weak-willed or unprepared wielder in to a bloodthirsty killer, can choose not to be used, and has a tendency to abandon its wielders at bad times, turning their certain victories into horrific deaths.

Certainly, it would be a Free Spirit. If your GM lets you stat your own contacts then he should also let you stat the Free Spirit that you have the pact with so long as you don't go overboard. Nothing stops a free spirit from being an inhabitating spirit, although it will have difficulty coming back if its body is destroyed.
knasser
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Nothing stops a free spirit from being an inhabitating spirit, although it will have difficulty coming back if its body is destroyed.


Well inhabitation isn't in the list of available powers for Free Spirits, so it would have to inherit the power from its type. And the only types I recall at present with Inhabitation are Ally and Insect spirits. So the Witchblade would have to have been created as an ally spirit at some time in the distant past. But that sounds like it could well suit the background.

Most of what you listed could be accomplished with the Magician quality (heal, enegy bolts, etc.) but obviously no time-travelling or dead raising. For the altering of forms, it could use Shape (Metal) on itself, and possibly Animate. But there might be a problem with mass (that would be one very heavy dagger created from a full suit of armour smile.gif ). Perhaps the best approach would be to have it as an actual spirit that could manifest in different forms, but then that opens up a whole load of other abilities that you don't want it to have.
Waterlog Thistlebottom
Wow... Awesome feedback guys.

I conlude that my idea had been PWND, and rightly so (Bad powergamer).

I guess it won't work for an Adept, because I need to make the unique spirit formula to shapes the Ally Spirits abilities, and know the Ally Spirit Metamagic thingy. My GM tends t be very flexable (infact we all take turns, so it pays to be flexable) so I might run the idea of a ready-made Ally Spirit buy him and see if I can subsitute the Karma cost for BPs at character creation (It should work because the Ally Spirit Karma costs are linear, like BPs). It's good to know I was picking bits that suited me though. Hussah for forums!

On a completely different note I want to say (to everyone with pants out there) that this could equally apply to the Venom symbiote from Spiderman fame, or something similar, so the Witchblade thing is neither here nor there (but still sucpiciously lacking in pants...)
knasser

I feel the need to point out that whilst pants are trousers in the USA and France, in the UK they are underwear. Quite whether your character wears underwear or not and the backstory behind that, I might consider taking the role-playing a little too far.
ornot
I have no pants.

(hey! It's a saturday and I'm alone:D)
hyzmarca
QUOTE (knasser)
I feel the need to point out that whilst pants are trousers in the USA and France, in the UK they are underwear. Quite whether your character wears underwear or not and the backstory behind that, I might consider taking the role-playing a little too far.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6..._Witchblade.jpg

Yeah.

Rule number one of mystically generated armor, it must destroy your clothes when it is generated.

Actually, that's would be a great geas for the Mystic Armor power.



A bound ally spirit isn't ideal for the Witchblade since as Ally can't abandon or betray its master, something that the Witchblade is known for.

Also, if you're going to conjure an Ally you'll have to wait for an initiation. But you might as well wait for two initiations so that you can Blood Invoke it because we all love that particular rules abuse. A Blood Ally can become as powerful as the Witchblade due to their accidental lack of an essence cap. But, it is really more Carnage than Venom,.
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