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eidolon
Thank WR. wink.gif
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
I think it's very important to start new threads about personal takes on firearms statistics. It gives me the chance to act like someone with down's syndrome and fill an entire post with 45 ACP OR 9MM GUYS WHICH IS T3H B3st F0R T3H STR33tt!!!?????!!!!!!!!

Here you go. First a couple of disclaimers/notes:
- The Shotguns and SMGs pages were done a few months ago, and I haven't looked them over in any detail since, really.
- Next to no effort was made to ensure that these conform to the CC weapon design rules. I did try to keep the weights and availabilities somewhat within the ranges of the given weapon type though.
- I'd love feedback. You can post here or email me (addy in the files).
- Further disclaimers at the bottom of the pages.
- Oh, and I'm Grungydan just about everywhere on the internet but here.

SR3 Weapons

edit: replaced zip file with a link to a page where you can grab the individual PDFs

With that, I inflict my late-in-the-game, probably not of much interest to anyone but me weapon thingies on you all.
TheOneRonin
You also need one of these.

One of these.

Oh, and one of these.
MYST1C
QUOTE (eidolon)
- I'd love feedback.  You can post here or email me (addy in the files).
  • Why is your "Franchi SPAS-15" an assault rifle instead of the real-life shotgun? BTW, "SPAS" is an acronym for "Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun"...
  • Why is your "SCAR-1" built by Walther instead of real-life FN?
  • "Brugger+Thommet MP-9" - In the SR universe Steyr apparently never ceased producing the TMP (it's listed in Cannon Companion and SR4*) and thus most likely never sold the gun's blueprints to Brugger & Thomet (only one "m") who consequently never produced the MP-9...
Nevertheless, nice work!

* <shameless>With a picture I drew years ago for the German CC.</shameless>
TheOneRonin
A couple more comments from the peanut gallery:

-The Nova is a slug gun with a rifled barrel. You don't want to be firing shot ammunition through it. And the price seems really drastic since I picked up my RL Nova for $350 just a couple of years ago.

-Where did you find the image from the JS-9? I have a couple of pics of that weapon saved on my computer, but I don't have the associated real word weapon name? I did a brief search on World Guns, and did find it either.
eidolon
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I should have noted that I haven't made a consistent attempt at making sure that my "Shadowrun" versions of the pictured weapons are named for the real weapon. Some are, some aren't. I mostly just make up babble that I like. I didn't really give much more thought to it than "hmmm...there aren't many weapons from X company in the CC and main book, so I'll say that X company made this to fill out the selection a bit while sticking predominately to SR companies". smile.gif

As far as prices, I just went with "that sounds good". I have no idea what 99.9% of these would cost in RL. I just looked at prices and availabilities of SR guns and assigned ones to these based on where I felt like they should fall.

@Mystic: I didn't know what the acronym stood for. I got the name for that one from the name of the jpeg, and had no idea it was a shotgun. I made that AR page in a hurry because I was expecting my players to show up at any time (they didn't...another story). I shall now be removing it from the AR page and adding it to the next Shotgun page, and feeling like a moron. biggrin.gif Thanks for the heads up.

@TheOneRonin: JS-9
Sinodefence.com is a great site.
And thanks for the weapon suggestions. I'm not taking to that 2nd one, much, but the other two are cool.

Heh, yeah, at least 90% of my thought process when deciding to pick a weapon to do up is "that looks awesome". Some of them I research beyond that, some I'm just using for a sweet ass picture. I always thought the Street Samurai Catalog was one of the best supplements for its inclusion of visuals for the weapons. That was my main basis for the way I'm doing these. Little connection to reality should be expected (although if it's a shotgun and I have it as an AR...I'll be changing it).

Upcoming (when I get a chance, maybe tonight) are Assault Rifles vol1 revised, Shotguns vol2, Weapon Systems vol1 (stuff like the XM8), and maybe SMGs vol2.

Oh, and I'd like to hear what you guys think about the shadowtalk if you don't mind.
MYST1C
QUOTE (eidolon)
@Mystic:  I didn't know what the acronym stood for.  I got the name for that one from the name of the jpeg, and had no idea it was a shotgun.

Actually, I had to look up the acronym, too. But concerning the shotgun issue - SR's own "SPAS-22" and real life's quite well known SPAS-12 (you've surely seen that one in some movie) should've served as hints...

QUOTE
Upcoming (when I get a chance, maybe tonight) are Assault Rifles vol1 revised, Shotguns vol2, Weapon Systems vol1 (stuff like the XM8), and maybe SMGs vol2.

As the XM8 project has been cancelled in real life that gun will never see production. In fact it was never more than a slightly modified Heckler & Koch G36 with a new outer shell.
Take, as suggested before, the Magpul Masada instead.
eidolon
Thanks, but as I said, I'm making these with less than very little grounding in reality. smile.gif

I have a nifty picture of the XM8 system, so it needs a SR writeup. I'm probably going to put it on the same page as the Masada. I think there's one other that I have, so that will probably be a 3 weapon page.
MYST1C
QUOTE (eidolon)
I have a nifty picture of the XM8 system, so it needs a SR writeup.  I'm probably going to put it on the same page as the Masada.  I think there's one other that I have, so that will probably be a 3 weapon page.

Unless you already have that one I'd like to suggest the Robinson Arms XCR. It's not that well known but looks nice and might have a future.
Darkest Angel
Only thing I'm interested in seeing is the L86 LSW or some such SR equivalent. Basically it's an SA80 with a longer barrel and bipod, more than doubles the effective range and gives it a bit of extra kick, without the need for much additional training.
eidolon
QUOTE (MYST1C)
Unless you already have that one I'd like to suggest the Robinson Arms XCR.


Hmm...I'd need a niftier picture, preferably showing all configs in one shot. The image I have for the XM8 is here, from this site. A quick search turned up Robinson's official site, and it pretty much looks like all they have is the assault rifle version.

QUOTE (Darkest Angel)
...L86 LSW...


This one? I don't have a New LMGs in the works yet, but I saved that pic and might do one up sometime. (Rules wise, in SR you'd treat that configuration as an LMG, IMO. That's how the systems are treated now, basically the weapon systems have a full line of stats for each config.)


Darkest Angel
That's the fella. I guess it would be treated as an LMG with a poor clip "technically", but it should actually use the AR skill, given what it's built from.
eidolon
Hmm. I could just put that in the "rules" bit for that weapon. It's actually a neat idea. A lot of the ARs in SR can fire in FA already, and the damage codes aren't that far apart. Most of the power of the LMG in SR is just the auto-fire, anyway.

MYST1C
QUOTE (Darkest Angel)
I guess it would be treated as an LMG with a poor clip "technically", but it should actually use the AR skill, given what it's built from.

While the L86 was originally meant as an LMG the low ammo capacity and lack of quick-change barrels have led to it now being used more as a Designated Marksman Rifle.

I would rather treat it as an assault rifle with the "longer barrel" design option (= 10% range increase) and 1 point of internal recoil compensation due to the exeptional weight.
nezumi
I don't suppose you could post that in a non 'download this file and run it' format, could you? I read this stuff from work, and the firewall has fits.

Man, looking at the pictures that are posted makes me hope the National Firearms Act expires soon... Some of those guns are too cool for words.
eidolon
Here you go.

I just made a page with links to the PDFs.
nezumi
Not knowing anything about guns beyond what I've read...

The Mag-7 looks like it's what, 6 inches long? 8 at most? With such a short barrel, the damage code should be well below average.

Why does the Nova have such a high avail rating? It looks like a pretty standard shotgun to me... It also appears to me to be a pump, would it be SS?

XM-26, second line, "shotfun". While it does look FUN and it is a shotgun, shotfun is catchy but not linguistically correct.

mmm... love me some bullpups... Too bad none come into my price range for at least another few years...

Why does the SCAR have a 9M damage code? I seem to recollect (no books open in front of me) that ARs cap out at around 8M. Unless there's a good reason for the higher damage code, I'd knock it down.

As has been said, SPAS refers to a shotgun

Why is the 'uber light polymer framed AR' the second heaviest of the bunch?

Why bother giving the taser a GVII? It can only benefit from 1 point of recoil. Also seems a little powerful as tasers go, especially for one so itty bitty...

You need to specify the pistol class with those. Is the VIP a light pistol or medium? What's the difference between a 'small frame heavy pistol' and a medium pistol?

Related, guns with shorter barrels will have less power when firing the same caliber bullet. So the Bond and Thunder, which seem smaller than preds, should have a code closer to 8M, but the concealability would be high (as it is). The Bond seems a little small for a 14 bullet mag.


As I said though, I'm not a gun bunny. I've never owned a gun, never fired a pistol, so if someone more experienced (like maybe yourself) says otherwise, go with the more experienced voice. However, I wouldn't see any reason not to allow most of these in my game.
Kagetenshi
Indeed, giving SCAR 9M damage is pretty unprecedented. I'd say avoid, unless you're reworking the entire set of AR/HP Power ratings.

Also, I'm highly dubious about the usefulness of a gas vent on a taser.

~J
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (nezumi)
mmm... love me some bullpups... Too bad none come into my price range for at least another few years...

What's the price range? They're selling FS-2000s for around 2k now. Well, I got mine for a little bit less awhile ago, but the price have gone up.
eidolon
Cool, thanks guys.

QUOTE (nezumi)
The Mag-7 looks like it's what, 6 inches long? 8 at most? With such a short barrel, the damage code should be well below average.


Hmm. Actually, going off the size that the magazine would have to be to hold a 12 guage shell, it looks to be at least 12 if not 14 inches in length or a little more. Also, the whole idea of it is "big power small package". I do think I should drop the concealability by one though. Actually, regarding the barrel length, I'm more enticed to drop the range than I am the power.

I'm going home. I'll post more when I get a chance.
eidolon
QUOTE (nezumi)
Why does the Nova have such a high avail rating? It looks like a pretty standard shotgun to me... It also appears to me to be a pump, would it be SS?


Good point on the avail. I had just glanced at shotgun avails in CC, and mirrored the first two. I see farther down the list that a "common" shotgun has an avail of 3. I'll fix that. Ditto on the action. I was after a semi-auto shotgun, and didn't pay enough attention to the picture.

Introducing Shotfuns™, from Ares. Now even the smallest child can throw clouds of lead with reckless abandon! (No, I'll change that too. I'm awesome.)

QUOTE (nezumi)
Why does the SCAR have a 9M damage code? I seem to recollect (no books open in front of me) that ARs cap out at around 8M. Unless there's a good reason for the higher damage code, I'd knock it down.
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Indeed, giving SCAR 9M damage is pretty unprecedented. I'd say avoid, unless you're reworking the entire set of AR/HP Power ratings.


Well, they can have up to one level of Increased Power according to CC. I gave it that and upped the price, mainly because it doesn't have a whole lot else going for it. Bare bones weapon that you'd have to spend more money upgrading, it's a little pricey to start with, but you get the extra 1 power. I think I'll leave that one. You're right about lack of precedent as far as canon weapons go, but heck, that's half of why I'm doing these.

QUOTE (nezumi)
Why is the 'uber light polymer framed AR' the second heaviest of the bunch?


Well, I don't think I intended that to happen, and I'm pretty sure the weight I have there for the SCAR-1 is off too. When I start up one of these, I just open an existing one and cut/paste new stuff in over the old. I've caught myself accidentally leaving old info on them a couple of times, so that's probably what happened here. Of the bunch, the AR page was the most rushed, so I'm not surprised that it's the one catching the most flack. smile.gif Actually, I just realized that the Vector has no reason to have a point of RC. I'll nix that too.

QUOTE (nezumi)
Why bother giving the taser a GVII? It can only benefit from 1 point of recoil. Also seems a little powerful as tasers go, especially for one so itty bitty...
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Also, I'm highly dubious about the usefulness of a gas vent on a taser.


Good catch on it only needing 1 point. However, a GV I system doesn't exist. I suppose I could just go the "special venting built into the body of this weapon gives it one point of recoil compensation" route. Yeah, that sounds better. I want to give the option of firing 2 darts with no recoil, basically.

As to power, it is a bit high. I think I'll just make it 8D like the Pulsar. Concealability (itty bitty) is the same as the Pulsar already, and is on par with some of the HPs.

QUOTE (nezumi)
You need to specify the pistol class with those.


Well, I thought what I had would be enough. The description of the VIP starts with "this light pistol". Keep in mind that a lot of that is supposed to be "marketing lingo". "Small Frame Heavy Pistol" is really "high concealability heavy pistol" is really just a "Heavy Pistol" when it comes to mechanics. The Bond is just marked as a HP.

QUOTE (nezumi)
So the Bond and Thunder, which seem smaller than preds, should have a code closer to 8M, but the concealability would be high (as it is). The Bond seems a little small for a 14 bullet mag.


Hmm. I can see dropping the Thunder to 8M. It is definitely supposed to be smaller. The Bond is supposed to basically be a one-to-one comparison/competitor to the Predator, so ammo cap, concealability, power are the same. As to the picture making it look small...think bigger. smile.gif

Replacement PDFs will go up as soon as I can verify these changes and upload them. I'll post when they're ready.

eidolon
The revised PDFs are up. Thanks again guys, and let me know if you see anything else.

I'll probably do some work on some new stuff now. MTF.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (eidolon)
QUOTE (nezumi)
The Mag-7 looks like it's what, 6 inches long? 8 at most? With such a short barrel, the damage code should be well below average.

Hmm. Actually, going off the size that the magazine would have to be to hold a 12 guage shell, it looks to be at least 12 if not 14 inches in length or a little more. Also, the whole idea of it is "big power small package". I do think I should drop the concealability by one though. Actually, regarding the barrel length, I'm more enticed to drop the range than I am the power.

12.6" seems to be the official barrel length. The cartridge is a particularly short 12 gauge, which combined with the relatively short barrel means smaller payloads -- less shot or lighter slugs -- fired at significantly lower velocities than even a 2-3/4" 12 gauge from a 16" barrel, nevermind 3½" magnums from a 20" barrel (which is what I assume 10S pretty much is). There is ample reason for a damage code, and ranges, lower than those of regular shotguns.

Which is not to say that a lower damage code is what it must have. As long as it fits in your game, and you know which bits are realistic and which aren't.
eidolon
I was wondering when our gun guys would notice this atrocity. biggrin.gif

Thanks, AE.
fourstring_samurai
QUOTE
Wounded Ronin]I think it's very important to start new threads about personal takes on firearms statistics. It gives me the chance to act like someone with down's syndrome and fill an entire post with 45 ACP OR 9MM GUYS WHICH IS T3H B3st F0R T3H STR33tt!!!?????!!!!!!!!


i'm not sure what the context of the original post was, but guys please realize that some people on this board have family or friends who are persons with downs syndrome. Equating them to idiots is extremely disrespectful and furthers a negative stereotype.
Denicalis
Internet. Serious business. You've all been warned.
MYST1C
QUOTE (eidolon)
Well, they can have up to one level of Increased Power according to CC.  I gave it that and upped the price, mainly because it doesn't have a whole lot else going for it.

You might want to use a picture of the 7.62x51 SCAR-H instead of the 5.56x45 SCAR-L then...
nezumi
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 13 2007, 04:39 PM)
mmm...  love me some bullpups...  Too bad none come into my price range for at least another few years...

What's the price range? They're selling FS-2000s for around 2k now. Well, I got mine for a little bit less awhile ago, but the price have gone up.

Cheapest I've seen is $1.2k but I forgot what for. Kel-tec is making one for next year or the year after and I'd be interested in that. Regardless, right now bullpups cost 2-3 times as much as an AR-15, up to 10 times as much as an AK. Hrmm... Makes me sad. I'm guessing it's just because bullpups are almost always of high-quality bits and pieces, made for a limited market. Should we expect bullpups to be more in line with other ARs in Shadowrun's time?
PBTHHHHT
Well, if you ever want to try out a bullpup rifle at a range, lemme know. I also have a friend who has a full auto mp-5. Well, he has the special trigger device that can port over to other HK rifles. The only problem is all the ranges around DC can't support full auto rifles. The NRA range used to allow it but too many law enforcement agents using the range kept making holes in the ceiling. frown.gif

The only problem I with the bullpup is that you can't exactly add a betamag to it, unlike AR's and such because of where the magazine is placed against the body. Yes, it's an amazing thing to watch someone dump a hundred round mag on full auto from a rifle.
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