Well I know that plenty of the players know which dragon and even which Immortal Elf matches which "screen name." However what are the chances that PCs would know. Any GMs take on this subject? I'm just wondering because it may come up for myself in the future and I'm trying to figure out just how easy is it for someone to figure it out. I mean there are hints galore, however can they be sure. I guess they can never be however, I guess I just don't know.

So what are your takes on this.

On a side note I really hope my Game Store gets this sourcebook in soon. I probably am going to have to wait at least another week.

There's a fair-to-middling chance. 'course, we're still debating who Loremaster is...

I was reading a reply from him in Port of a Dragon, and at first he strikes me as Lofwyr, infact from some of the other books I thought he was Lofwyr as well. (People who haven't read the book nod.) him and Orange Queen(Hestaby) argue. Then the other Screen Name associated with Lofwyr pops up the S-K one.

This brings me up to maybe the dragon has a split personality (everyone looks at me crazy.) I totally agree with you guys. That is a crazy thought.

So what is the answer? Well I look at it again a few times, and other passages with Lofwyr and I begin to feel that they both are the same guy. Maybe he was trying to sow some discord. Conspir-I-See, however then you have to figure he is letting out some pretty valuable information.

Okay so he wouldn't want to do it, right. No actually I think not, I don't know if it let's out that much information. It confuses a whole lot of people, perhaps even the dragons. And dragons love to "play chess." What better thing to do to all your opponents both the lowly informed as well as the upper ups, then to add a new side.

All of that aside.

I'm only certain about one thing Loremaster is definately a Dragon.

First, at least one dragon has split personalities.

Second, Hestaby is known to be Orange Queen to Shadowland reader following Dragons (as Eyebright reveals it). Two or three of Celedry's nicks are known to them as well, as are the three for the dragon of split personalities.

A Dragons 6 test should reveal one per success to the matrix savvy, perhaps Dragons 10 test for the avid dragon fanboy but 'Trix unaware. After Dot6W's Shadowland date anyway. The test could be opposed by a dragon's Charisma if they had been trying to hide it from the start.

But anyway, obviously the "match the IE" is much harder -very few know about (and even fewer believe in) immortal elves, though the skill could be developed in game...

Strange that someone has started this, cos just last night at round about the time 252 started this thread i was rereading DotSW. and was wondering weather there was a diffinative list on who's the dragons, Now granted i've looked a AH's site and he lists a few, but not many.
So can people list the who's who of the dragons, Ill start

Orange Queen- Hestaby
Script-Diver- Celedyr
Far Scholar- Dunklezahn
Ghost in the Machine- Ghost walker?
The Saeder Krupp address- Lofwyr

Now i think i know more but it's late, also i might be getting confused with what they call each other. Please feel free to correct me, or add to the list

This thread has most of them, IIRC.

(Wishes he had the book even more), come on guys this is hurting. I know it is my fault for not bugging the hell out of the store owner sooner, but hell ummm. Okay so it probably is entirely my fault.

Can't wait for two weeks from yesterday, oh tech. I just remembered that I work on wedsdays. I have to wait two weeks from this Saturday! Uhhhhh!

Being that i'm rereading DotSW i have a question.

Again there's some relevant shadowtalk in the Lofwyr chapter.

Ah! our good friend Sir tusk!

I don't have the book anymore, so im not sure if it's in there or not. But who was the elf mage that ends up saving Sir tusk's butt when someone tries t hit him?

Sean Lafferty, as I recall. He walked in to meet with Kham, Neko, and Dodger right before the hit went down.

Good news I got Dragons of the Sixth World. Oh it is so beautiful. Oh I like it so much, what great paydata. This is great, I'm all smiles. Ohhh I can't believe the kind of knowledge that a Shadowrunner who visits Shadowland has at his fingertips by 2063. This is so seriously kicking. Oh my gosh <continuality delete>

>Stop jibber jabbering, and start reading slot head.
Captain Chaos,
I am everywhere.

Hee hee. He said "jibber jabbering."

So that made an impression on others that read Year of the Comet. Impressive, most impressive. Why don't you guys respond to the other new thread.

Each of the Great Dragons not only has a 'proper' name (Lung, Hestaby, Dunkelzahn) but also some have matrix names, and all of them should have 'dragon' names- the names they are called at Council, for instance. Far Scholar, Gold Master, Wind-Master, Earth-Diver...

Do we know Ryumyo's dragon name?

Senchae: No. At least, I don't. But I'm updating that page, so if I run across anything I'll let you know.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

The background is that one of my PCs has expressed as a slightly early Drake, and Lofwyr and Hestaby are competing for her services (kinda. Long story. It isn't really as munchkin as it sounds. ). Hestaby was teaching her how to properly address the Dragons (I decided that when in dracoform she should use their dragon names), and so she got a list of the dragon names... and I discovered only about half of them exist in canon. So I ended up naming Ryumyo, Aden, Rhonabwy, Masaru, Hualpa, Arleesh, and Shwartzkopf.

I'm pretty sure that Hualpa is Jungle Cat. As in, the one that argues w/ Scriptdiver/Celedyr about protecting the White Tree.
Also, sort of a tangent, Wordsmyth if Ehran the Scribe.

Dunkelzahn himself would jump onto the matrix without his formal name. In the second edition Paranormal Creatures of North America Dunkelzahn leaves a message stating his interest in the speculative powers of meta humans.

So while in a situation like this it'd be obvious that it was Dunklezahn, but from Dragons of the Sixth World and Survival of the Fittest i was under the impression that while the books explain their formal names, they never really use them with runners or in public. Granted Lofwyr with his S-K avatar is going to lead to some thought, and I wouldn't be surprised if Hestaby let her name slide by.

But I really do think that very few people would know their formal names, because I often gather that the Dragons aren't all flashy, but intelligent. I don't think that they want to always be calling attention to themselves (well... except Lofwyr, but that's only because he is so arrogant and sure of his own power that I doubt he'd care whether people knew who he was).

When it comes down to it, I find that the dragons are either flashy with power, or calm and calculating effecting events from behind another face. The only exception that I can see to this is Dunkelzhan and look where that got him. So while Ghost Walker and Lofwyr have little to fear from others, i think that the rest of the dragons out there learned a valuable lesson from 2058.

I really can't imagine there ever being a situation where runners would amass the sig of all the dragons, because whoever gave that info out is breaking the first rule everyone learns as a kid, don't screw with a dragon.

Pretty close. he toasted himself to empower an item to stop the enemy.
The whole spirit thing was more of a side effect. He didn't even remember he was him.
Check out Ancient History's site. If you wanna know anything about SR's history/background/secrets, it's usually there.



Still wanna know Ryumyo's stupid name

I think I might know who loremaster might be.

Has anyone on this board read the Earthdawn dragon book? I think it may have only come out as an e-file, but I'm not sure.

Anywho, the Dragon that is used as a source for the first half of the book (Vasdenjas) is known as the Master of Secrets. He is also refered to as Loremaster once or twice. I'm not sure he would be that venomace about draconic tradition.

A thought.

Mortax: Little problem. Vasdenjas died, and the title of Loremaster was claimed by Dunkelzahn/Mountainshadow. Who at that point is also dead.

There was some speculation that it was Nachmeister trying to talk big from someone. No idea if it's true. If it was though, he must have been tougher than he seemed, since Hestaby referred to him as an "ancient". Makes me wonder just how old Hestaby is. Old enough to think of Masaru as a "youth" (SoTF), but call other ancient....


Still wanna know Ryumyo's damn name!

Eliohann.

I've never heard Eliohann has split personnalities ...

where did you find that ?

in DotSW, he only talks about him at third person
and in Dragun Hunt, he only suffers from amnesia

so, what's your source(s) ?

When dealing with a dragon, there are certain things you have to remember;

Be Courteous & Respectful, but not sycophantic.
Whatever the outcome, be polite & thank him/her for their consideration.
Shut the frag up, sit the frag down, and DON'T eat anything spicy or with onions before the meeting.

End of lesson.

I thought the main thing to remember when dealing with dragons was 'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for ye are cruncy and taste good with ketchup.'

This is quite true, Westiex. But there are just those rare occaisions when dealing with a dragon is inavoidable....especially when they're a quarter-meter away from your face......

How cute. An AR with APDS. You may just annoy it.

A non-Great Dragon has Hardened Armor 8, halved to 4 by the APDS, and 11-12 combat pool, depending on type.

Assuming an unwounded dragon, it will need TN 7 to dodge, and TN 14 to soak a 10-round burst.

Let's assume a relatively average street samurai with 6 in Assault Rifles, a smartlink, and 6 Combat Pool.

So, sammie opens up, 12 dice vs. TN 2, scores 10 successes. Dragon dodges, and scores 2 successes. Sammie has 8 net successes.

Dragon now rolls 12-15 Body dice vs. TN 14, and doesn't score any successes. Dragon takes a Deadly wound, possibly with 4 boxes of overdamage. Sammie shoots it again, dealing another 15 boxes of overdamage (it can't dodge), just to make sure the dargon's dead.

If it's a Great Dragon, the result is much the same. It'll score a few more successes on the Dodge test, but it'll still fail to score any net successes, and die.

Even if the Great Dragon casts a Force 12 Physical Armor spell (the most powerful it can cast without taking Physical drain), it'll still die. It'll actually score about 4 successes on the Soak test vs. TN 6, but the sammie will still score about 1 net success after all's said and done.

So, an assault rifle loaded with APDS in the hands of a competent street samurai = dead dragon. The only hope the dragon has is to kill the sammie before he opens fire, and a swarm of summoned elementals serve this purpose nicely.

Of course, this all presumes the dragon has no other defenses, which is just ludicrous; that the sam gets the drop on the dragon, which is ludicrous; and that the sam made it all the way to said dragon unharmed.

Nice try, though.

Well, dragons have initiatives of Reaction + 2d6 (unless they're using the Improved Initiative spell). Most Street Sams can probably do better (Wired 2 + Reaction 5-6 will).

As for other defenses... what other defenses? I suppose a summoned spirit with Confusion would stop the sammie from killing him, but that works for metahumans as well, and the group shaman could have already summoned a spirit with confusion, and have it use the power on the dragon to stop it from (easily) summoning a spirit itself.

Also, the implication of the original scenerio is that the dragon is trying to intimidate the PCs. Usually, this would happen when the PC isn't wounded, and as often as not, in the games I'm in, characters tend to either A: die, or B: stay unwounded the entire adventure.

well for one, how about the classic quickened/anchored detect bullet/bullet barrier. That'll take off a lot of that damage. Quicken an Incresed Reflexes +3d6 spell. Perhaps a few Inc Attribute spells as well. Say.. body, intelligence and Wuickenss, to up it's resistance and reaction. Then throw an ignite spell Force 8 on the street sam's ammo magazine and watch him resistst damage aganist his own ammunition. Or how about the dragon has a force 12 fire elemental that it commands to engulf the street sam to the same effect.

Let us not forget that Mr. Samurai is not the only one that can be augmented. Just a few metamagics can go a long way for boosting up a dragon. Failing metamagics, elementals sustaining the above spells will have much the same effect. Also, your target numbers to hit seem to be assuming short range, or a good sight. If it is short range, that dragon's going to be doing some nasty melee against the street sam. if it's at range, then he has spells and movement modifiers to worry about, because any dragon at range is going to be flying unless it is for some reason unable to. In which case it can use more spells to throw on more modifiers , like invisibilty, light and darkness spells, chameleon, etc. Once again, sustained by elementals or quickened if necessry . And there's nothign that says that a dragon can't use a sustaining foci.

Oh jesus, here we go again...

I'll point out that in the original situation, the dragon is '.25 meters away', so this doesn't really apply.

If it's in close combat... I've designed a giant street sam who could take out Oriental dragons on average (and the others about 50% of the time), because he had better reach, and only a few less dice to roll on the melee test.

As for bullet barrier... well, if the dragon's throwing both a Force 12 Physical Barrier and a Force 12 Armor spell up, he'll probably survive being shot at. However, he'll be taking Drain of 14M and 14S (no successes). So, he'll be taking +3 to all of his tests for the duration of the encounter, and all it'll take to knock it out is an L stun wound. So, no more spells.

Increasing Body is next to useless. It's already got so many Body dice that if it's shot at, whether or not it survives is a function of the Target Number.

how do you figure 14's as the t#? Drain is F/2+2 for armor, +2 for a second spell.

Yes, a well equipped street sam can take out a stock dragon straight out of the book. But if you run a dragon just straight off of stats and some spells, the nit becomes just another critter. That's not what they're about.

I stuffed up, and figured the Drain as Force + modifier, rather than 1/2 Force + Modifier. I realized my mistake right as I was settling in for bed.

one of those things where you're in bed at 3 am and go "HEY! Wait a minute!..."

I hate those

Just to get the thread back on track...

Scroll down to 'Aliases' for matrix psuedonyms.

Ancient, thats an excellent site you have there and i will be refering to it for my future games.

According to SoTF isnt loffy the new loremaster?

Yup