I improved some attributes and skills by dropping intuition and magic to 5 and getting rid of the expensive cyberware.
Here he is as of now.....
[ Spoiler ]
Sherlock Holmes
Race: Human
Qualities________________________
Positive qualities: Adept(5)
Negative Qualities: Moderate addiction to cocaine (10) Astral Beacon (5)
Stats_______________
Body:3
Agility:3
Reaction:3
Strength:3
Charisma:3
Intuition:5
Logic:4
Willpower:4
Edge:2
Magic:5
Essence:6
Active Skills____________
Perception (visual) 6 (9 with adept power)
Influence group 3
Biotech group 1
Pistols (semi auto) 2
Stealth group 4
Electronics group 1
Tracking (urban) 2
Pilot ground craft (wheeled) 1
Close combat 1
Knowledge Skills_____________
English N
Chemistry 4
Violin 4
Forensics 4
Corporate 2 (he had a decent knowledge ... more than he let on at least)
Underworld Politics 4
Famous Crimes 4
Gang ID 3
Street Drugs 2
Adept Powers________
Enhanced perception 6
Improved ability perception 3 (max for skill according to rules)
Eididetic sense memory
Multi Tasking
Sustenance
Linguistics
Analytics 3
Vehicle_______
Honda spirit
Armor______
Lind coat with all mods at 6
Helmet
Armor vest (just in case)
Weapons________
Ares Viper slivergun smart and gas vent 3
Sword
Club
Contacts__ L C
Dr. Watson 6 3
Fixer Loyalty 2 3
Beat cop 3 3
Ancient ganger 2 2
Novatech airware commlink
Fake sin (4)
visual and hearing aids (helps with obscene dice)
Various other misc. gear
This gives him roughly 26 dice (with gear) on a visual perception test even more if analytics can be added
with perfect 3d memory that never forgets and can sense things faster than anyone
He can learn a language in no time and will have most if not all of them at rating one before too long
[ Spoiler ]
Therumancer
May 1 2007, 04:31 AM
Hmmm, well...
My major concern with such a character is that it doesn't strike me as being very playable (despite being a cool idea). You might notice that there was a detective character in the original (1st edition) of Shadowrun, and it didn't seem to be continued as a viable archetype from there.
The thing is that he is based around what is arguably a 'support' skill, and is likely to be dead weight for practical purposes in 98% of the Shadowrun games out there. He's observant, but ultimatly his stealth skills aren't really good enough to keep up with more specialized characters in a full team of infiltrators, and his combat skills are going to make him dead weight/a walking medical bill in the majority of groups which are more combat oriented.
He's not really set up to operate remotely through Drones or purely within The Matrix/AR (which many GMs hate PCs to do anyway despite making sense), so that doesn't really appear to be an option.
What's more I'd be concerned about his abillity to survive routine hazards like a few gang members or a ghoul, since he'd be doing legwork in person.
I suppose a GM could build an entire single player campaign around him (or the concept) and it could be made to work, but it's not something you could just throw out there and use.
As far as him being a "starting" version of Sherlock Holmes, consider that by this time develops the rest of his skills, the other PCs are going to be increasing more practical specialties. The GM is also going to be increasingly the cooresponding threat level. So thus while "Holmes" is now able to survive the low end threats above, most threats are now coming from things like Prototype Cyber Zombies, serious magical threats,Custom Brewed Critters, and the like.
What's more most SR games don't revolve around solving (but rather comitting) crimes. If the game was based on solving crimes almost entirely, it's doubtful that most of those abillities would be as useful as you think as for practical purposes the GM couldn't let you use them. Sherlock Holmes is a fine character to read in a book (where the reader is entertained by a revelation Holmes figured out long ago in many cases) but a rough one to RP.
With the character above you would basically walk into a crime scene, roll a few dice, spout some dialogue, and then have the GM give you the answer before going onto the next "adventure" where you do the same thing. It would be quite dull especially seeing as you'd probably be relying on NPCs to do all serious fighting and heavy lifting (which is a way is fairly loyal to some of the early Holmes stories, he didn't confront villains himself through his entire career..
that came later).
At any rate, it's an interesting idea, and an interesting build, but I'd advise you against making it as anything other than an academic exercise. I think you might have some trouble trying to make it work under the rigors of actual gaming.
>>>----Therumancer--->
lunchbox311
May 1 2007, 05:20 AM
I agree, he is a very hard one to pull off. Honestly the more I look him over the more he will probably become a contact more than a character.
Or a plot device.
JonathanC
May 1 2007, 05:46 AM
QUOTE (Demerzel @ May 1 2007, 12:10 AM) |
That addiction should be to Heroin if you want to be Sherlock Holmes.
Also:
QUOTE (SR4 p.80) | A character with the Addiction quality is addicted to alcohol, drugs, BTL chips, or a similar substance with a detrimental eff ect on the character’s health (note that nicotine, caff eine, and sugar do not count). |
If nicotine does not count, puzzles should not.
|
Cocaine, actually. He dissolved it in water and injected it.
ornot
May 1 2007, 04:56 PM
I seem to recall in one Holmes story, the great man bent a poker with his bare hands, so his strength would realistically be a lot higher. But that's by the by.
I think Holmes would be more of a face character, capable of reading people and situations. And how many times did he disguise himself and go slumming with the dregs of society? And not get called out? That bespeaks a very high level of etiquette and disguise.
As a face he would even make a very valuable addition to a runner team.
bibliophile20
May 1 2007, 05:54 PM
QUOTE (ornot) |
I seem to recall in one Holmes story, the great man bent a poker with his bare hands, so his strength would realistically be a lot higher. But that's by the by.
I think Holmes would be more of a face character, capable of reading people and situations. And how many times did he disguise himself and go slumming with the dregs of society? And not get called out? That bespeaks a very high level of etiquette and disguise.
As a face he would even make a very valuable addition to a runner team. |
Personally, I would build him as a high level NPC who might hire the runners to help him along the lines of the Irregulars.
lunchbox311
May 1 2007, 06:15 PM
He will probably become an NPC. I just wanted to really see what was possible with 400 points and some nifty adept powers that most people would not take.
Who knows, with enough cover and planning with his skills he could manipulate others into thinking he was a more powerful being. Perhaps he would masquerade as a dragon (lesser) and try to manipulate people accordingly.
He could be a fun helpful NPC, new knight errant CSI detective following the runners trails or even an interesting villain for a mystery campaign.
So all in all, it was an exercise in the rules and may turn into a plot device.
Thane36425
May 1 2007, 07:26 PM
The Stealth Grou poses a problem. Holmes was so stealthy that he could follow a life-long hunter across the barren moors without being seen. He could also disguise himself so well that he could appear in character to friends and they wouldn't know him.
For negative qualities, you might want to add Mysogeny. Holmes viewed women as inferior, especially intellectually, and that caused him trouble more than once when a woman outwitted him. He was capable of respecting certain women, but in general terms, he looked down on them.
SR3 had one called something like Clueless. That NQ meant that a character was inept at interpersonal relations. Holmes can interrogate very well, but he often misses the subtelties of relationships. When he does catch on, usually when he's hit over the head by it, he did apologise and make amends, in his own fashion.
Speaking of interrogation, definitely make that a specialization in verbal.
The following are roleplaying points and I'm not sure if they would be worth build points.
Holmes would very often give orders and run off without explanation. For that matter, he would also just plain take off without telling anyone what he was up to. That caused his friends a lot of worry and got him into trouble sometimes.
Remember, Holmes reputation worked for and against him. As many or more police resented his "interference" as appreciated it. Once the character builds a rep, it could be the same for them.
If he were a full mage or mystical adept, I would suggest an Ally Spirit named Watson. Since he isn't, perhaps either a metahuman companion, someone with hacking and data mining skills would be very good, or a Free Spirit, perhaps even with a spirit pact of some kind.
Thane36425
May 1 2007, 07:29 PM
Just remembered something. There was an SR novel called Wolf and Raven, which was something of a collection of short stories about a man and character like what is proposed here. I can't remember the name, but the character was a mage, free spirit or something that was rather like a fixer, I guess. He was resepected in the shadows and had his little stable of runners. Been years since I read it though.
Did find a link to a brief synopsis.
Wolf and Raven
lunchbox311
May 1 2007, 08:55 PM
QUOTE (Thane36425) |
If he were a full mage or mystical adept, I would suggest an Ally Spirit named Watson. Since he isn't, perhaps either a metahuman companion, someone with hacking and data mining skills would be very good, or a Free Spirit, perhaps even with a spirit pact of some kind. |
In the original form we had him in, (before I posted him here,) he was a mystic adept. I gave him an owl spirit called dr watson for flavor.
As is it proved to be too cost prohibitive so I just went straight adept.
Thane36425
May 1 2007, 08:58 PM
QUOTE (lunchbox311) |
In the original form we had him in, (before I posted him here,) he was a mystic adept. I gave him an owl spirit called dr watson for flavor.
As is it proved to be too cost prohibitive so I just went straight adept. |
I can see that. As an adept, there are so many abilities to choose from that need the magic. Since the Ally's biggest appeal is to act as a power focus, well one of the appeals, even a mystic adept wouldn't get as much from that as a full mage.
toturi
May 2 2007, 01:18 AM
QUOTE (ornot) |
I seem to recall in one Holmes story, the great man bent a poker with his bare hands, so his strength would realistically be a lot higher. But that's by the by.
I think Holmes would be more of a face character, capable of reading people and situations. And how many times did he disguise himself and go slumming with the dregs of society? And not get called out? That bespeaks a very high level of etiquette and disguise.
As a face he would even make a very valuable addition to a runner team. |
Speckled Band - the one with the snake.
Anyway, I do not think that Holmes is particularly good at anything else except Perception, but I do think that he is lucky. Need stealth? Edge. Holmes has the Edge, do you?
hyzmarca
May 2 2007, 02:03 AM
QUOTE (JonathanC) |
QUOTE (Demerzel @ May 1 2007, 12:10 AM) | That addiction should be to Heroin if you want to be Sherlock Holmes.
Also:
QUOTE (SR4 p.80) | A character with the Addiction quality is addicted to alcohol, drugs, BTL chips, or a similar substance with a detrimental eff ect on the character’s health (note that nicotine, caff eine, and sugar do not count). |
If nicotine does not count, puzzles should not.
|
Cocaine, actually. He dissolved it in water and injected it.
|
Cocaine and morphine, actually. Heroin is turns into morphine in the body so the two are roughly the same. The only reason it seems more powerful is that the actyl groups allow it to pass through the blood-brain barrier more easily, but this only works if it is snorted or ijected. Oral heroin would turn into morphine in the digestive tract, although it is much easier on the stomach and is far less likely to cause nausea.
A detective character is viable, but I wouldn't start him off with Holmes as an archetype. Rather, I would start off using a street detective archetype and then adjust his stats to make him more Holmes-like.
And Watson really should be a sort of henchman contact, if your GM allows those.
Thane36425
May 2 2007, 03:13 AM
QUOTE (toturi) |
Speckled Band - the one with the snake.
Anyway, I do not think that Holmes is particularly good at anything else except Perception, but I do think that he is lucky. Need stealth? Edge. Holmes has the Edge, do you? |
He had many talents. Boxing, what he called Japanese Wrestling (probably Jujutsu), could play the violin, etc. He would probably be closer to a 600 point character than a 400 pointer, at least.
Something else about Holmes: he prefers justice to the law. Several times he let's the "guilty" party go rather than turn them over to police because he thinks what they did was right. Like the man who killed his true love's abusive husband when he saw him hit the woman so hard he thought she was dead. A couple of cases like that.
Whipstitch
May 2 2007, 05:53 AM
QUOTE (Thane36425) |
He would probably be closer to a 600 point character than a 400 pointer, at least.
|
See, I think you can come fairly close, actually, aside from his perception, which should always be a 7. But as long as you stay away from cyberware and expensive gear (and Sherlock obviously wasn't a cybered combat monster
), it's not too hard to fit in his many talents, really. I think the problem is that we're comparing him to a world where it's easy to be as good as him because you have jacked up tools to help you every step of the way if you really want.
Anyway, here's how I'd make a fairly traditional Sherlock if I was limiting myself to a beginning character's BP:
[ Spoiler ]
Metatype : Human
Mundane
Attributes
Body: 3
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 5
Logic: 5
Willpower: 3
Edge: 2
Initiative: 8
Essence: 6
Knowledge Skills
English : N
Chemistry: 4
Crook Hangouts : 2
History (Criminal) : 2 (+2)
Poison antidotes : 1
Biology (Anatomy) : 2 (+2)
Area Knowledge : 2
Street Drugs (Opium) : 1 (+2)
Current Events (Crimes) : 1 (+2)
Active Skills
Con : 3
Etiquette : 3
Leadership : 3
Negotiation : 3
Disguise : 3
Inflitration : 3
Palming : 3
Shadowing : 3
Blades : 3
Clubs : 3
Unarmed Combat : 3
Pistols (Revolvers) : 1 (+2)
Perception : 6
Artisan (Violin) : 1 (+2)
Longarms (Sporting Rifles) : 1
Intimidation (Interrogation) : 2 (+2)
Locksmith (Cylinder) : 2 (+2)
Dodge (Ranged): 1 (+2)
Positive Qualities
Photographic Memory
Negative Qualities
Addiction, mild, Opiates
SINner (Loyal Englishman)
Weapons
Staff
Knife
Ruger Super Warhawk
Ruger 100
3x Regular Ammo (10 shots)
Armors
Clothing (Chic)
7x Clothing (Regular)
Lined Coat
Equipments
Tool Kit (Chemistry)
Metal Restraint
Lockpick Set
Chisel
Wire clippers
Flashlight
Survival Kit
Disposable Syringe
Binoculars
Contacts
Mycroft Holmes (L:6 C:4)
Dr. Watson (L:6 C:3)
Gang Member (L:1 C:2)
Scotland Yard Inspector (L:2 C:4)
Lifestyle: 3 Months, Middle
Not really uber in anything but perception, but he's as talented as a professional in many areas.
pbangarth
May 3 2007, 10:08 PM
Please forgive the off-topic question, but I can't find the answer in any Help file I see.
How do I include a "Spoiler" in a post?
And where could I have looked to get the answer to this question?
Demerzel
May 3 2007, 10:24 PM
pbangarth
May 3 2007, 11:14 PM
Thanks.
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