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Full Version: Mercy, Vindictive or both
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Jack Kain
Ok after shooting down this vory enforcer, my street samurai decides to show some mercy. As he was only unconscious my character decided to stabilize him with his medkit. After that was done my character took the Vory's armor, his gun, his comlink and his clothing and then leaving him naked in the gunshot house for the Knight Errant who were likely called after the sound of machine pistols woke the neighbor.

So which was it?
Mercy, Vindictive, Both
Or just plain funny
NightmareX
IMO, it was none of the above - it was dumb. Because now that Vory guy, when he wakes up, can finger you to KE and give them a positive lead in the case. Further, unless a hacker spoofs the Vory guys commlink or changes it's access numbers, KE will be able to find you by tracking said commlink (when they match it to the Vory guy) if you keep the commlink with you. Better to leave the commlink and the Vory guy's dead body behind IMO.
Ryu
How one can think of this as "mercy" is beyond me. "Stupid" on the other hand...

It was vindictive. The vory lost some property and much pride, and likely goes to prison. And he is alive. Fingering you to LoneStar is only the first thing he will do.

Now wait, it isn´t even vindictive - you didn´t tell us what he did to your character.

Just stupid.

And maybe a bit funny.
Mistwalker
I voted for both.

Not knowing the backstory, I can't say if it was stupid or smart.

Possibly stupid for leaving an underworld enforcer alive after almost killing him.
Possibly smart, as the enforcer knows that he could have been killed, but was deliberately spared.
Will depend on the enforcer and his bosses outlook.

Looting, possibly smart, as with no evidence to the contrary, the enforcer would not be charged (no weapons). He would be considered a "victim", and probably would not co-operate with KE regarding on who/what did this to him. KE would probably know he was an enforcer, assume some kind of gangland activity and not put much resources into looking into it.
Possibly stupid, if the enforcer had "important" information on any of his gear that the organization would want back.
hyzmarca
Vindictive is kidnapping taking him with you, kidnapping his closest loved ones, torturing him in front of them for several months before severing his spine at the neck, torturing them to death in front of him over a period of several months, scooping out his eyeballs, punching through his eardrums, and cutting out his vocal cords so that he is unable to see speak or hear in addition to his inability to move or feel anything, and then take him to a don't-ask-don't-tell long-term care hospital with instructions to keep him for as long as is possible but to never attempt to correct his injuries via cyberware or communicate him via telepathy or DNI because those things are against his religion and pay the hospital enough money every year that they actually pretend to believe you.

Now that's vindictive.

What the Samurai did was just plain funny.
eidolon
I don't really see the Vory guy cooperating with the KE officers, so I don't think there's too much to worry about in the KE tracking down the characters department (at least, he wouldn't if I were GMing). More likely would be he feeds KE some lines about being unconscious or something, just enough to get let go, and then he goes back and rallies some other Vory guys to help him with his new personal vendetta against said sam.
ChicagosFinest
He ruined his life. The Vory enforcer is either going to go to jail or die at the hands of the russian mob. This isnt "Rounders" where the russian say "He won fair and square... give that man his money" in a horrible russian accent.
Butterblume
Beeing killed would have ruined the enforcers life also biggrin.gif.

This way he has a, well, not-quite-fighting chance. Maybe he can skip out before the Law enforcers arrive, conceal his misfortune from the vory and live happily ever after.

Or he gets caught, strikes a deal with the Law, rats out the rory, gets into witness protection and lives happily ever after.
blakkie
QUOTE (Ryu @ Nov 30 2006, 05:21 AM)
Fingering you to LoneStar is only the first thing he will do.

Fingering Jack's PC to LS is the last thing he'd do.....and even then would only happen if he fell on his head and stopped forgetting who the fuck he was but somehow still remembered who Jack's PC was.

Or LS pulled one of them inadmissible evidence Mind Probes on him.

Remember that the "vory v zakone" were born resisting giving any info at all to Stalin. Their hate and resistance to cooperation with The Man pretty much defines them.
Fortune
For those interested in a little data about the Vory (and how they may relate to the Sixth World), DV8 has written this essay.
Jack Kain
Perhaps I should have mentioned my character was still wearing his helmet and googles making a visual ID on his face a bit hard. Maybe you can ID someone by his chin, but that be a bit hard.
The comlink's wireless connection was of course shut off, making tracking impossible. I just dumped the thing in the trash after the technomancer found no vaulible data.

The Vory was encountered on one of the missons from
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/missions/downloads/
I didn't want to list back story as that would be spoilers, I will say as much that the Vory was important enougth to have a last name.
He may have actually been a Avtoritey, with close ties to the Vory. We didn't do the legwork to check upon either group.
Grinder
It was funny.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Vindictive is kidnapping taking him with you, kidnapping his closest loved ones, torturing him in front of them for several months before severing his spine at the neck, torturing them to death in front of him over a period of several months, scooping out his eyeballs, punching through his eardrums, and cutting out his vocal cords so that he is unable to see speak or hear in addition to his inability to move or feel anything, and then take him to a don't-ask-don't-tell long-term care hospital with instructions to keep him for as long as is possible but to never attempt to correct his injuries via cyberware or communicate him via telepathy or DNI because those things are against his religion and pay the hospital enough money every year that they actually pretend to believe you.

Now that's vindictive.

Has anybody read the comic 'A history of violence'? Not the movie, the actual comic. That's all I'll say to avoid spoiling.
ChicagosFinest
QUOTE (Fortune)
For those interested in a little data about the Vory (and how they may relate to the Sixth World), DV8 has written this essay.

From a quick glance that is an awesome site
Charon
I wouldn't steal the commlink (unless of course it was the whole point of attacking the Vory in the first place).

It's not worth that much on its own, the info it contains could be used to track you down if you try to sell it and who knows what's in it ; there could even be a GPS tracker in it so even by turning it off you could still get tracked down. If I'm worried about security of information and am not currently doing field work it's certainly something I would consider.

I wouldn't steal the weapon either unless I need one right now. The Vory henchman should be pro enough to be carrying clean weapons but you never know. There are idiots in every organization. If that weapon has been used in a significant crime, like killing a FBI informant, it can only cause trouble.

Aside from that, I'd say it is funny and stupid.

You either kill him or let him live, without stealing anything.

But you don't let him live and then embarass him. Not when he belongs to an organization that can teach you thr true meaning of the word vindictive.

It's the middle ground for morons.

(Not that I'm saying you are a moron. You just play one in a fantasy world! wink.gif

Seriously, it's easy in hindsight to pick at a PCs actions. As long as you know your GM won't use that an excuse to have Vory try to track you down, no harm's done)
Fortune
QUOTE (ChicagosFinest)
From a quick glance that is an awesome site

It is indeed! One of the very best Shadowrun sites on the net ... ever!

I had to use the Wayback Machine to actually access that page though, as DV8 is currently putting together a new one.
BishopMcQ
Out of Curiousity, which Mission was it? The Vory have shown up in 3 of them...If it's the Avtoritey, then I'm voting Stupid if he is left alive...
Jack Kain
Well first off in responce to Charon.
He didn't steal his stuff or any measure of profit. He did it to be an •••hole.
The only item kept was the armor jacket.

QUOTE (McQuillan @ Nov 30 2006, 06:42 PM)
Out of Curiousity, which Mission was it?  The Vory have shown up in 3 of them...If it's the Avtoritey, then I'm voting Stupid if he is left alive...


Now as for McQuillan... wait... you wouldn't happend to be to Stephen McQuillan by anychance?
Well I didn't want to post any spoilers for that mission. But I didn't know how to make spoiler tags. That has now changed so I can reveal a bit more.
[ Spoiler ]
Fortune
Spoilers are made thus ...

CODE
[spoiler]Stuff that spoils![/spoiler]
Charon
QUOTE (Jack Kain)
Well first off in responce to Charon.
He didn't steal his stuff or any measure of profit. He did it to be an •••hole.
The only item kept was the armor jacket.

Well, that was the only sensible item to keep.

That only leave the matter of poking the bear for the sake of poking the bear.

Shoot the bear or avoid the bear. Never poke the bear!
Jack Kain
QUOTE (Charon)
QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Nov 30 2006, 08:13 PM)
Well first off in responce to Charon.
He didn't steal his stuff or any measure of profit. He did it to be an •••hole.
The only item kept was the armor jacket.

Well, that was the only sensible item to keep.

That only leave the matter of poking the bear for the sake of poking the bear.

Shoot the bear or avoid the bear. Never poke the bear!

ah but a bit of better advice comes from Lightning Jack.
"Don't mess with Lightning"
fistandantilus4.0
Wasn't the Vory founded by a bunch of criminals that were all in jail and got good at running their operations from prison? Hell the guy might tak it as a badge of honor. 'Course he'll still try to hunt down the sam when he gets out, or have his pals do it, but that's the price of doing business. And I agree, I really don't a career criminal ratting to the cops.
Charon
QUOTE (Jack Kain)
ah but a bit of better advice comes from Lightning Jack.
"Don't mess with Lightning"


Or what?

It seems rather safe. If you fail to shoot him in the back of the head, he'll clown around, leave you naked in an alley and give you a second chance to shoot a bullet in the back of his head.

I'd be more worried of messing with the Vory.
Jack Kain
Well if everyone dies hows the message supposed to get out. After all "If you kill him, he won't learn nothin."
Jack's not a cold blooded killer. He conciders geting through a run with out anyone dying a victory.
But if someone is foolish enougth to throw away a second chance he gives them they will receive no mercy.
What they should expect, is a Steytr TMP loaded with EXEX and firing in short narrow bursts. Maybe I'll give full auto a shot.
Charon
QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Nov 30 2006, 10:20 PM)
Well if everyone dies hows the message supposed to get out. The next time they meet it, there will be no mercy, no quarter. Just a few short narrow bursts with EXEX

You're (presumably) a runner, not a gangster.

You have no message for the Vory, Mafia, Yakuza or any other mob.

They need a reputation as someone you don't mess with. It directly reflects on their bottom line (for protection rackets for example). Therefore to them your message is just a challenge to be answered in kind with far more firepower than you can muster. Because if they don't do it, their reputation will suffer.

As a runner, the only persons you really need to send a message to are your employers and fixers. And the message is ;

I can do this job discreetly, leaving no evidence behind. Furthermore, I will not by my actions create further complications. Like a pointless feud with the Vory that could potentially splash on my employers.

That's the reputation you want to foster and leaving naked, furious gangster in your wake does nothing to improve it.

(As an aside, while leaving a naked gangster behind is just plain bad idea with only disadvantages for a runner, it makes a lot of sense for certain type of mobsters, especially groups who appreciate panache : In such a group that kind of stunt has several advantage such as increasing your standing in the organization and goading your opponent into a confrontation that you are presumably ready for)
Jack Kain
There was already a good chance of a feud with the vory after a previous encounter. Those guys had been the only thing between us and the target the entire run.
Fortune
Should have just put a bullet in his brainpan.

Not too late though. Hunt him down and put him out of your future once and for all. wink.gif
Jack Kain
QUOTE (Fortune)
Should have just put a bullet in his brainpan.

Not too late though. Hunt him down and put him out of your future once and for all. wink.gif

Why hunt him down, it will be so much more fun to have him show up in a future adventure.
NightmareX
QUOTE (Jack Kain)
Perhaps I should have mentioned my character was still wearing his helmet and googles making a visual ID on his face a bit hard. Maybe you can ID someone by his chin, but that be a bit hard.
The comlink's wireless connection was of course shut off, making tracking impossible. I just dumped the thing in the trash after the technomancer found no vaulible data.

Ah, that changes things - now it's just funny wink.gif
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