Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate
Oct 30 2003, 03:48 AM
Hey, folks. Where do you figure the Shadowrun plot will go next? Anybody think the Shedim will get bigger, or something else will turn up? Right now we seem to be in a kind of quiet space...so what's next?
Ancient History
Oct 30 2003, 03:50 AM
Background noises. The focus is back-to-the-streets now.
Kanada Ten
Oct 30 2003, 04:01 AM
The New RevolutionPCC gets a seat on the Corporate Court
UNAN forms (United North American Nations)
Hestaby is elected president of said group.
Ares takes over Sacramento leaving Saito SanFran and surrounding.
Ute and Sioux merge
SS-Council takes Tsimshian
AztlanConquers Yucatan
Loses Texas and California holdings
LofwyrWins Europe
Loses Middle East
Japan, China, PhilippinesWAR! HUH! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?
hp_warcraft
Nov 1 2003, 10:02 PM
QUOTE |
Japan, China, Philippines WAR! HUH! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? |
Biz!
Diesel
Nov 1 2003, 10:09 PM
Television!
Kanada Ten
Nov 1 2003, 10:13 PM
I just now figured out you name, HP Warcraft, and it conjures visions I like very much. Giant mecha verse Cthulhu on a scarred and hedonistic Earth. The next great action interactive Sim from VisionQuest.
Shadow
Nov 1 2003, 10:13 PM
Outer space. I think very soon we are going to hear about a colony program for Mars from Ares. What ever corp gets there first can claim the whole planet.
Dogsoup
Nov 2 2003, 12:13 AM
Arse becomes influenced to an unhealthy degree by the bug spirits they experiment on, and slowly evolves into the "Aztechnology of bugs".
Nath
Nov 2 2003, 02:08 PM
QUOTE ("Shadow") |
Outer space. I think very soon we are going to hear about a colony program for Mars from Ares. What ever corp gets there first can claim the whole planet. |
Well, I guess there could be long debate about this both on DSF and inside SR universe, especially since we don't know among other things the exact provisions of extraterritoriality and how things like the 1967 Outer Space Treaty would be interpreted for extraterritorial megacorporations. Among other things, land claims are strongly tied to the notion of sovereignity. The fact that the Corporate Court can demote a corp from its extraterritorial status suggests megacorp are not sovereign. A standard for such claim stays "use & occupation" which is not at all simple on the scale of a planet...
There are some other things that might impact this. First, the fact that Fuchi/Novatech could install a base on the Moon long after Ares and S-K did the same, suggests the same could happen on any other non-terrestrial body (Target: Wastelands). Also, the dispute between Boeing and Wuxing concerning the "unamed island" has yet to be settled by the Corporate Court as a legal precedent for land claim by megacorporations (Year of the Comet). But finally, my guess is that the agreemant reached by the Big Ten to build the Kilimandjaro magnetic rail propeller included provisions for a fair enough distribution of space conquest at least between the Big Ten.
This being said, according to Target: Wastelands, Yamatetsu is aiming to go on Mars with a launch in 2063. Ares is on the something else, namely a mission for Jupiter's moon Europa to be launched in 2064. And Saeder-Krupp is working on mining operation in the asteroids belt.
BTW, speaking of laws and that...
QUOTE ("Kanada Ten") |
PCC gets a seat on the Corporate Court |
In spite of all the yuppie's corporate governance thingie, the Pueblo Corporate Council (or Singapore) stays a nation with attribute, the main one being a recognized sovereignity on its land, and the possibility for people to create private companies incorporated there (period, if it was possible in SR to incorporate a company within megacorporates' "territory" the system would collapse and be completely different from what we know). With the possibility to raise taxes, or the obligation for persons who want to do business to own a share, the PCC would be a can of worms for the megacorporate system. Without even speaking of AAA status, I'm not even sure it would get the AA one (or apply for it first).
It reminds me Man & Machine was planting the seed of a possible big plot, a bit forgotten since. Concerning Nanotechnology, Ares lacked the stuff to match its space ambition, and it suggested possible alliance with either Mitsuhama, worrying the UCAS Senate, or Pueblo companies. Mix in the bugs and the possible end of Haeffner-Daviar reign in 2065, there could be some big moves.
Playing Games
Nov 2 2003, 06:40 PM
I think Ares is leaving Saito is power long enough to hit him, when his gaurd is down and when said actions would be most welcomed by the people of said area. to conquer is a bad thing, to liberate it is a good thing.
What bothers me is why No one has used monterey bay.I think this should come up shortly.As I recall it is bigger than the one in big sur...But hey people in the 2060's really love the eviorement.....
Kanada Ten
Nov 8 2003, 08:32 PM
Art will break up Novatech and the CAS will buy RJR Reynolds (thus getting the Court seat), making them the third nation (PCC and UCAS both get Ares' two seats, the former from Vogel and the latter from buying Ares!).
NMAth, I think that S-K would love the powers of a nation (merging with the NEEC). Also, Companies can form inside companies (now even), think about the Reraku Mall. It had a Weapons World in it, and so on. I think if the CAS buys RJR then nothing can stop it from getting the seat (the same with the UCAS and Ares).
Squire
Nov 9 2003, 03:54 AM
I'm hoping Ancient History is right.
We had some fun with the Uberplots for a while, but it's time to get back to the roots of the game. We need more stuff about the streets and more freelance corporate espionage kinds stuff.
Adam
Nov 9 2003, 05:01 AM
QUOTE (Squire) |
We had some fun with the Uberplots for a while, but it's time to get back to the roots of the game. We need more stuff about the streets and more freelance corporate espionage kinds stuff. |
They aren't mutually exclusive, though. I can think of tons of short and simple plot hooks based around "uberplots" that don't require direct interact with the uberplot, leave plenty of control within the hands of the gaming group, and create further plot hooks to drag the players into the plot if the GM chooses.
I'm all for back to the streets, but every single Shadowrun uberplot creates falldown all the way to street level.
Cheese Emperor
Nov 9 2003, 05:14 AM
Don't you mean fallout, not falldown?
Anyways, I find it rather repulsive that Ares would ignore their namesake in Mars, but that's just me.
Kagetenshi
Nov 9 2003, 05:49 AM
Ares execs played Doom back in the day. They don't want to get caught in the crossfire when Hell breaks loose over Phobos and Deimos.
~J
Sphynx
Nov 9 2003, 10:13 AM
Denver becomes the central point (instead of Seattle) and in addition to increasing the scope of Shadowrun to include a more Merc type feel (people vs the corp is a very 80's theme), and watch as UCAS starts reclaiming lost lands via the Confederated States. Atzlan is 'cleaned up' with the Merc jobs available, and becomes a much more nature-attuned, nation, comparable to Amazonia, but led by Avenger Shamans (Corrupted).
(Earthdawn merges...) Somewhere in between there, Drakes are added as a PC race minus-wings.

And a new race of 'Elementals' are discovered which aren't summonable, but just appear from the rock and are permanently manifested....

A certain kinda Sprite/Faerie gains the rights to Citizen status within UCAS.
Overall, plots continue happening on a Global scale, but games tend to run a more Merc attitude as Countries, not Corps become the big hitters again, and maybe bring in a few (or the rest) of the ED races.
Sphynx
Large Mike
Nov 9 2003, 07:48 PM
Screw that. Let's get back to the barely-scraping-by, hiding-from-the-man, megalith-corperation street level. Come on, Shadowrun, reclaim the streets.
Kagetenshi
Nov 9 2003, 08:06 PM
For what it's worth, countries will not be the big hitters in my games so long as I'm GM.
~J
Sphynx
Nov 9 2003, 08:28 PM
That's too bad really Kage. The game reaches a whole new level as soon as you break from the 'hit building' 'achieve goal' 'return to johnson' 'get cash' routine.

The funnest games I've played have been InsectHive cleanups, Toxic Shaman removals, defending areas from attacks, protecting environments from evils, etc, etc. I just have alot of trouble believing people find the Corp scenario fun still, but maybe that's cause we overdid it back when we started it. I just noticed one day that it was repitious and each game started to feel just like the previous.
Anyhows, even if countries aren't the big hitters, the 'runs' you can do for a government are alot funner IMHO.
Sphynx
Kanada Ten
Nov 9 2003, 09:48 PM
I would argue that Shadowrun with out an Archplot is not Shadowrun. It is a dead game called Cyberpunk. The Archplot is what drives the game forward, what propels book purchases (because you back to the street people don't buy the f'ing books anyway).
Back to the street? What the !!!! does that mean? They never left. The world is complete - not "ONLY THIS" or "ONLY THAT" - it is all. You need street bulldrek? Go buy the Sprawl Survival Guide, Corporate Download, Mob War, Blood in the Boardroom, and Underworld. Uberplot: Threats & Threats 2. Archplot? Year of the Comet , Shadows of BLANK. Metaplot? EVERY BOOK.
As far as countries becoming big hitters, not within ten years of game time. I'd guess moderate hitters.
[Now]
GANGS
GOVERNMENTS
SYNDICATES
CORPORATIONS
MEGACORPORATIONS
[Five Years]
GANGS
SYNDICATES
GOVERNMENTS
CORPORATIONS
MEGACORPORATIONS
[Ten Years]
GANGS
SYNDICATES
CORPORATIONS
GOVERNMENTS
MEGACORPORATIONS
However, I see governments becoming more corporate in the process. I see the need for nationalizing & subsidizing companies to employ people as automation and AI take over everything.
Kagetenshi
Nov 9 2003, 10:40 PM
QUOTE (Sphynx) |
That's too bad really Kage. The game reaches a whole new level as soon as you break from the 'hit building' 'achieve goal' 'return to johnson' 'get cash' routine. 
The funnest games I've played have been InsectHive cleanups, Toxic Shaman removals, defending areas from attacks, protecting environments from evils, etc, etc. I just have alot of trouble believing people find the Corp scenario fun still, but maybe that's cause we overdid it back when we started it. I just noticed one day that it was repitious and each game started to feel just like the previous.
Anyhows, even if countries aren't the big hitters, the 'runs' you can do for a government are alot funner IMHO. |
Did I say I used that routine? Did I say countries didn't do anything? In my games major countries have far more military might, both overt and covert, than the corps, they just also have vastly less room to use it in, resulting in them not being the "big hitters". The gummint rarely hires runners, but they do occasionally. Furthermore, the corp runs don't always want a building hit; sometimes it's a van to hijack, sometimes they want a package to get from point A to point B unobserved, sometimes they need someone to hunt down the Piasma that's been killing their researchers somewhere, sometimes they need someone to bring them the heelprint of an honest man.
If corp runs are boring, it's your fault (or your GM's)

~J
Buzzed
Nov 9 2003, 11:46 PM
I suspect the ice caps will finally have their day. The dragons are merely advocates. Creating empires and molding a world to satisfy the vision of their master. The sleeping masters are deep deep down inside the ice, one in the north and one in the south. The dragons are competing to gain ground. The dragons are taking sides and preparing. When the day finally comes, the world will never be the same again. The northern master and the southern master will begin their epic struggle for global domination at last.
Better go for high ground. This isn't going to be pretty.
Userlimit
Nov 10 2003, 02:27 AM
Where'd that come from Buzzed!?
Anyway, while rereading Target: Matrix last night, I thought of something that I think could add a lot of excitement at the "street level". In the section regarding the Mosaic Datahaven, the Cap drops a warning to the Megacorps that they'd be sorry if another action (as was taken against the Beppu Datahaven) was taken against a major Datahaven. I think it would be ridiculously awesome if the Megacorps tried to take out a North American based Shadowland datahaven, maybe even the Seattle Shadowland, illiciting whatever response the Cap and his sysops have prepared. That type of war could make for some awesome missions. (i.e. shadowrun group hired on the fly to immediately help pack up one of the locations where the physical Shadowland computers are held, and transfer them to a truck, and then gaurd them as they make their way to a safehouse, but then the safehouse is compromised, etc etc)
This might also give reason to move the focus over to Denver, since the ebooks would probably be published by Bash (the Denver sysop) or a refuge Cap in the Nexus.
Pistons
Nov 10 2003, 02:10 PM
Other than the fact that Shiva, not Bash, is the Denver sysop (last I checked

), that's an interesting idea, Userlimit. Something like that could kick off a major shadow war.
Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate
Nov 10 2003, 02:58 PM
Indeed. We've seen corp wars and nation wars and even syndicate and gang wars, but never a shadows war.
Nobody has threatened the shadows seriously enough thus far to get the big runners to decide that they need to invest some time and money into kicking copious amounts of rear.
Having one or two megacorps decide to 'prune' the shadows would make for a kind of neo-Cyberpunk theme, it would seem to me...it would just be a little less hopeless than what has been displayed previously, but still pretty daunting, especially for player groups who are just starting out.
Playing a campaign like that, I'd want Seige and his forty dice
Sphynx
Nov 10 2003, 03:04 PM
No kiddin.... that would be awesome... I will definitely start that kinda campaign when I pick up the reigns in December. Every Runner being hunted down by both Gov't and Corp alike would be a far more interesting game concept than all this magic-flux type we currently hit.

You know the kinda team a gov't would put together to hunt down Runners would be scary. A Forensics team that will find every possible piece of evidence and a kick-ass team that will hunt them down through the help of the Gov'ts Magickal Group team. (replace the word Gov't with Corp for the same effect as they team-up to stop the Shadows).
Sphynx
Nath
Nov 10 2003, 08:12 PM
QUOTE ("Kanada Ten") |
Art will break up Novatech and the CAS will buy RJR Reynolds (thus getting the Court seat), making them the third nation (PCC and UCAS both get Ares' two seats, the former from Vogel and the latter from buying Ares!). |
Richard Villiers precisely owns personally all JRJ shares to be sure, even if Novatech should break up, he would stays in the Court (Corporate Download page 71). Even if he should die as all his heir (I guess Samantha, Caroline and maybe Lanier would be potential heir), he's an UCAS citizen. That only let to the CAS two way to acquire JRJ: nationalization (assuming it is headquartered in the CAS) which would undoubtly result in an loss of the Corp Court seat ; or offering more money than all the other people, corps and governments in the world who'd like a permanent AAA slot and a Z-OG share.
QUOTE |
Also, Companies can form inside companies (now even), think about the Reraku Mall. It had a Weapons World in it, and so on. I think if the CAS buys RJR then nothing can stop it from getting the seat (the same with the UCAS and Ares). |
World Weapons is a company incorporated in the Seattle state, UCAS by Diderson Ksyogy (see Seattle Guide) and later acquired by Monobe International and then by Ares Arms (both being extraterritorial). Chartering a company and doing business somewhere are two different things. To do business in a foreign country, a company can obtain a license of some sort to do business, rent or acquire a building and employ people ; or charter a local company, 100% or partially owned. Some countries only accept the second option (IIRC in SR Tir Tairngire for instance). There is nothing that says if Weapons World rent its shop placement and do business inside Renraku territory with a license or through a "local" subsidiary chartered in "Renraku-land". Then you can argue over which of these are first possible and then likely. On my own, I think it would create so much loopholes and abuses the system wouldn't resist more than a month. Think about Enron, Andersen and similar stuff, then consider a situation in which the big corps could rewrite as they want the rules of accountancy, bankruptcy and corporate governance each passing month... Even the Corporate Court wouldn't allow that.
Kanada Ten
Nov 11 2003, 12:04 AM
I'm lost. But I've worked in companies before the had subsidiaries inside the same building. You'd have to make work manifests to get the products from one side, and bill of ladens when delivered. Maybe they were only on paper, or just different becuase it is all the same corporation?
As for the rewriting of rules, the reason it wouldn't happen would be to attract and keep businesses inside the corp land -the same a governments. We could easily nationalize everything, rewrite all the rules, ect, but that isn't good for long-term business or investments.
Why would nationalizing JRJ make it lose the Court seat? What if the PCC or UCAS already had a seat at that point?
BitBasher
Nov 11 2003, 12:39 AM
QUOTE |
Indeed. We've seen corp wars and nation wars and even syndicate and gang wars, but never a shadows war. Nobody has threatened the shadows seriously enough thus far to get the big runners to decide that they need to invest some time and money into kicking copious amounts of rear. |
Probably because it was explicitly stated in one of the corp books that the only reason the shadow community exists is because the corps allow them to. If the corps collectively decide to eradicate the shadow community, then the community as we know it is toast. It cannot exist without the corp's consent. Period. That was stated directly in canon. I would hate to see them take a completely implausible storyline and go against established canon to do it.
Kanada Ten
Nov 11 2003, 12:48 AM
Unless it was just one corp that decided to do it.
The reasoning behinde the shadows existing because of corps is becuase the corps are the ones that play for the runs more than anything, IMO.
If they collectivly decided to kill the shadows, simply not hiring shadowrunners would work easier than a bloody war.
Kagetenshi
Nov 11 2003, 12:59 AM
The problem with that method, though, would be the Prisoner's Dilemma. It might be in the best interests for all the corps to cease using runners, but it's in the even better interest of any given corp to employ runners while everyone else doesn't hire them. The only way to ensure compliance would be for the runner pool to cease to exist.
~J
BitBasher
Nov 11 2003, 02:18 AM
All you have to do is to start massacring every runner that shows up for meets, randomly. One corp could do that and do it easlily enough to virtually eliminate the shadow community. Corps have after all effectively unlimited resources for this sort of thing.
Userlimit
Nov 11 2003, 02:55 AM
Well as Kagetenshi pointed out, it would always be profitable for corps to use runners, especially when other corps aren't. So even if you were able to kill off the Shadowrun community for awhile, it'd come back because the market for it would still exist.
On the other hand, I don't think it'd be a good campaign idea to have corps just go after runners in general, but instead what I was saying was that, the corps decide that it's not a good idea to afford runners the luxury of Shadowland, which a lot of information (that they dont want out) crops up on, so they decide to destroy one, and the campaign would be about the shadow reprisal that the Cap mentions in Target: Matrix. The campaign could focus either more on individual teams being hunted because they were hired to get the Shadowland physical hardware to safety, or focus more on teams hired as part of the reprisal against the corps.
Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate
Nov 11 2003, 03:28 AM
I said 'one or two' corps going after runners because I knew that having a plotline where the Court goes after runners is just about suicide. Having the Corporate Court after your hide is a death sentence, period.
I was thinking more along the lines of what Userlimit is saying...have a megacorp like, say, I don't know, Aztechnology get a bug up its ass and try to take out some data havens. The Shadows react, and the other corps just kind of stay at the sidelines to see what happens.
Dogsoup
Nov 11 2003, 06:35 AM
Maybe a powerful independent, like Chimera, Tamanous or whomever, decides to try a hostile takeover of the shadow community in a limited area say Seattle?
It begins slowly and stealthy, some fixers and others from 'backdrop professions' getting bribed or coerced into working with this unknown group. Not long after that, "the offer you won't refuse" will be made to runners. It'll all seem like some "underworld super-network", but still be safe enough to not frighten people off. Sure there'll be some rumors or someone knows of someone who has quietly disappeared after saying no to something. But that's the common talk in the underworld, right?
The plot behind the network could be to gain enough intel to wipe out a majority of the shadowrunning society and emulate their methods, or scoop up those deemed valuable and loyal enough, and wipe out the rest (why not use the first group against the other...).
As mentioned; The network group could be a rogue threat org or/and be a project with megacorp backing to secretly gain hold of the SR community, complete with staged runs against themselves, every now and then.
The bottom line will be: Layers and layers of subterfuge, red herrings aplenty about who's pulling the strings and a touch of 'Bodysnatchers'.
BitBasher
Nov 11 2003, 07:23 AM
And what's their motivation, what do they gain from that?
Crimsondude 2.0
Nov 11 2003, 08:24 AM
QUOTE (Dogsoup) |
Maybe a powerful independent, like Chimera, Tamanous or whomever, decides to try a hostile takeover of the shadow community in a limited area say Seattle? It begins slowly and stealthy, some fixers and others from 'backdrop professions' getting bribed or coerced into working with this unknown group. Not long after that, "the offer you won't refuse" will be made to runners. It'll all seem like some "underworld super-network", but still be safe enough to not frighten people off. Sure there'll be some rumors or someone knows of someone who has quietly disappeared after saying no to something. But that's the common talk in the underworld, right? |
Isn't this basically Dunkelzahn's network of Watchers (many being Fixers) that was revealed in POAD: DS seven years ago?
Dogsoup
Nov 11 2003, 10:23 AM
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) |
QUOTE (Dogsoup @ Nov 11 2003, 12:35 AM) | Maybe a powerful independent, like Chimera, Tamanous or whomever, decides to try a hostile takeover of the shadow community in a limited area say Seattle? It begins slowly and stealthy, some fixers and others from 'backdrop professions' getting bribed or coerced into working with this unknown group. Not long after that, "the offer you won't refuse" will be made to runners. It'll all seem like some "underworld super-network", but still be safe enough to not frighten people off. Sure there'll be some rumors or someone knows of someone who has quietly disappeared after saying no to something. But that's the common talk in the underworld, right? |
Isn't this basically Dunkelzahn's network of Watchers (many being Fixers) that was revealed in POAD: DS seven years ago?
|
You know, immediately after I wrote the post, I realized that too.
Well, it only proves it can be pulled off. But this time, add Evil Intent to the mix

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