Really what is it like in 2070?

I can't run down the links at the moment but hasn't a large majority of it been pacified and turned into Corp-ville? Best bet is to wait for one of the Germans to show up since a lot of that stuff is a FanPro GmbH gig.

Funnily if my runners ever end up in Germany, I think I'll have Berlin gone completely schizoid again. However I always play it that really, very few people actually have any real control over anything that isn't specifically their territory, and not even that for governments.

West-Berlin has become a corp-controlled, calm, city. East-Berlin is walled up and has become a hotspot for anarchos and the like.
Personally, I don't like the anarchist undertone in most of the german sourcebooks and East-Berlin description is no difference.

OK, this is a really old post, but before I open up a new one let it be said that there's a growing (wholly unofficial) setting of Berlin in 2071+ on http://rabenwelten.wordpress.com

Yes, it's in English, but the person responsible for the blog (that would be me) speaks English, so if you have a question fire away.

The presented setting may not be official, but it is not contradicting existing material on Germany and Berlin. So it's not sn "Alternate" setting, just a more fleshed-out version in which a lot of the craziness of the first official Berlin setting was dumped.

The city itself is split into corporate-controlled sectors and an anarchistic containment zone, with some zones that are "in transition" in between.

There is a map of all major roads in and around Berlin here and a map of the zones/districts with short descriptions here

Seeya!

That's fucking interesting.

Let's just wait and see.

The mentioning of the possibility for new artwork or even new covers was vague at best (as it happened in the open forums – that tidbit is by no means "inside knowledge" on my part – with the possible exception of the Arsenal, for which there will be "some extras").

See here: http://www.foren.pegasus.de/foren/index.ph...ost&p=22122
Seems that there are new covers planned for the German edition of Arsenal, Augmentation und Emergence.

Sweeeeeet. Would be a reason to buy the books.

Meanwhile, the new German cover has been revealed:
http://www.pegasus.de/uploads/pics/46000G_03.jpg

Shit. Now I have a reason to buy the german book too. Will the books also have different interior art as well?

Yup, there will be new art and new equipment as well:

http://www.pegasus.de/137+M5648b5d56aa.html


Nahkampfwaffen:

* Athame
* Injektionsdolch
* Stockdegen


Projektil- und Wurfwaffen:

* Nutzlastspitze


Feuerwaffen:

* AS-113o "Assassin"
* Enfield Merlin
* Zastava CZ49
* AK-127
* Altmayr SP
* Ruhrmetall R506 Balmung


Kleidung und Panzerung:

* Anielski-Joop: reconquista-Kollektion
* dressCODE: CYBERPIRATE-Kollektion
* Rheingold: Aurora-Kollektion
* SK Myrmidon Kampfpanzerung


Umwelt- und Überlebensausrüstung:

* Proteus Monoschlitten


Dies und Das:

* (Inlineskates)/Powerboard


Fahrzeuge und Drohnen:

* BMW 2065 Mjöllnir (Rennmaschine)
* BMW Trollhammer (Chopper)
* BMW RV430 (Limousine)
* Eurocar President (Limousine)
* Mercedes IG310 Igel (ATV)
* Peugeot 11e ElectroCar (Kleinwagen)
* Volkswagen Lingus (Mittelklassewagen)
* Renault-Fiat 264 „Fattorina“ (Lieferwagen)
* Scania VM 42 (Transporter)
* Messerschmidt-Kawasaki Wandervogel (Kippflügel)
* Mercedes Multimog Greif (Kommandowagen)
* Mercedes PE Commando (Sicherheits-Lieferwagen)
* Ruhrmetall Wolf II (Mehrzweckpanzer)
* Jena Robotnik Cyclone (Spionagedrohne)
* Renraku Shrew (Zerlegbare Rad-Spionagedrohne)
* Ruhrmetall Wolfsspinne (Arachnide Läuferdrohne)

So it has become like Seattle =/

So who's going to volunteer to translate the "New" gear once the book comes and post it up on Dumpshock for us?

Hey, won't you get the supplements? As I have heard, it is possible, that there will be some pdfs for you with the additional german equipment. Not sure what's the status there. But it is possible
But we have to wait until we get the book, it isn't there yet. I'm just waiting for it.

Is that right.

Well guess If they do release supplementals I'll be downloading them ASAP.

There will be no german language pdf's for the forseeable future, but since Catalyst is also working on (english language) ebooks, chances are good that the additional material will be made available for the international audience as well.

Batshit.


Not really, it used to be munchkin paradise with the whole city being total anarchy (while maintaining an infrastructure, somehow, possibly through magic) and a favoured corp investment zone (as can be seen in Somalia, investment skyrockets as soon as a bunch of loons with nothing to do and way too many heavy weapons are around).

The new Berlin setting actually IS an improvement, though it's not that hard to improve on the shittiest SR setting ever (including California and the Black Forest troll kingdom).

Yup. They had mages work as subway guards to defend it against toxic earth spirits, remember?

Berlin has vastly improved as a setting, while still keeping a different flavor than Seattle. Berlin ist still only an "associated state" of Germany (ADL), and since it was the corps that "freed" the city what parts of the city are controlled are extraterritorial too. So you don't have any "federal law" (or rights) in the corporate zones (as they belong to the corp that freed the respective zone) or the East (as there are no laws at all and infrastructure etc. HAS crumbled and the remaining populace is starving).

If you like, Berlin is now more like Berlin after World War Two – a split city in a cold war, lots of districts in ruins, "secret agents" (aka shadowrunners and corporate black ops men) carrying out hidden agendas etc.

If you ever wanted to play something like the COLD CITY Rpg (LINK) in a SR universe, visit Berlin anytime

Urg. Yes. Spontaneously manifesting toxic spirits. Doesn't stop anyone from using the subway, of course.


Well, kinda, yes. Somehow, even more arcologies popped up in Berlin (propably the corps had a few spares lying about in a back room in Nagoya), but except for Renraku's Seattle project, arcologies in SR seem to be insta-buildable anyway.

I still maintain that the setting can only be properly playable if Verjigorme devours the current city and a new one is built in it's place, but there you go.

I always enjoyed playing in Berlin, but that may be due to the fact that i never fell for the completely unfounded idea of SR being "realistic" or at least not totally gonzo.
Or that i never considered RPGs to be something to be taken completely serious.
Others sometimes seem to lack that capability, which may be a pain in the ass if you are confronted with the AGS, the CFS or Japanese world domination in general, the concept that, all of a sudden, magic returns at a point in time that coincides with a wrongly quoted date from a Mayan calendar and happens to be modelled after 20th century fantasy stereotypes, or, heavens forbid, the NAN.

The problem with the Germany setting is that the original authors didn't take the game seriously, or so it seems. The original Deutschland in den Schatten of 1992 is so full of over-the-top silly ideas it reads (at least in parts) more like a satire or parody than an actual sourcebook.
Granted, AFAIK elements like the Troll Kingdom or flooded Hamburg had been introduced earlier by the American-written Harlequin adventure so the German authors had to work with it but "weird = cool" seems to have been one of the design concepts of the AGS setting.

I always had the impression that the German authors of the early 90s were influenced by Paranoia (a somewhat dark and dystopian world as background for a comedy RPG) and by comic books like Judge Dredd. SR's Berlin (pre-2055) could be transferred to Dredd's world without problems if you change metahumans into mutants and magic into psi powers.

Make no mistake, I love the German setting but I'm willing to admit its shortcomings.

Cry me a river.

Yes, it's not believable, and for a make-believe game set in a future derived from the present, it better should be. YMMV, but keep that arrogance down, will you?


No. That only included elements from Germany SB, like Anarchist Berlin and the Troll Kingdom. Hens and eggs.

Depending on your POV, that's either a problem or the main adavantage of the setting.




Make-believe game does not automatically boil down to sound speculative simulation game.
It can certainly (i've heard Traveller did particularly well in this regard), but it can also entail genre convention emulation, it can mean style over substance to the extreme, it can mean all physics are subject to action movie dramatic conventions.
Or that the NAN exists because the original devs thought a fragmented USA would be cool.

Suspension of disbelieve is only strained when basic assumptions about the gameworld are violated by a specific subsetting.
So what if the basic assumption is anything goes?

Actually, it's propably more because once upon a time a guy called William Gibson did.


And you get that from where? The pages and pages of writing in the companions, SSG, the little black book, the BBB and elsewhere that say it doesn't?

You're welcome to use the setting like that, of course, but don't pretend it's the only feasible way to.

Publication dates:
1990 - Harlequin
1992 - Deutschland in den Schatten
1994 - Germany Sourcebook

Hamelmann, T. and Lonsing, C. (eds.): Shadowrun - Die 6. Welt, pp. 404 and 426

Ah, I looked up in a German edition of Harlekin (where it says 1995). Silly me.

Though, since Lonsing had a hand in it, it might well be badly researched.

Who cares about the past, anyway? So there were some f*ckups in the old DidS. There were f*ckups in early SR everywhere. It was the nineties and everyone was on dope anyway.

Now it's chilly-frilly 2008, the edition is 4th, a lot of the old mess has already been cleaned up, and as far as foreshadowing and forum's buzz is concerned the setting will be "de-weirded" some more.

De-weirding the Berlin setting will be kind of hard (and I'm fairly glad I'm not Californian, since they have it about as bad). Eismann, Medic and Lab-Rat seemed to have some ideas for a berlin setting book, though.

But I guess if there's to be such a thing, you'd be better informed than I am.

I certainly hope so

A quick update on things in Berlin: As you may have heard, a new and official Berlin sourcebook will be released in October this year, FINALLY answering the question of this thread once and for all

Berlin as a setting will be de-weirded without boring it down to "just another SR city" level. As I can't reveal more: It's a setting with wild and chaotic areas, totalitarian corporate enclaves, hidden conspiracies, terrorist bombings, greedy organized crime syndicates, infighting on all levels, and evil agendas on all sides.

Also, the book will feature a lot of detailed locations and more mission hooks than Dunkelzahn had scales
As you might have guessed I'm HUGELY looking forward to the book

Will feature 90+% raben-aas art, too

EDIT: And Berlin 2070+ will NOT! be the Berlin you see on Rabenwelten (link below). If you are esp. fond of "my" Berlin setting, be sure to download/copy everything for your own use, since I will rewrite/restructure the Rabenwelten when Berlin releases so that the Rabenwelten will be fully compatible with the canonical Berlin setting.

Are you sure you're not describing a Denver book there?

Jokes aside, I'm really looking forward to a de-crazed Germany sourcebook, and a book which has not been rushed out amidst several rewrites.

Actually, there will NOT be a Germany sourcebook. The upcoming book is about BERLIN and nothing else. I'm quite confident that there will be 2–3 other German citybooks (or maybe one other citybook and some other cities collected in one (third) book), but that is pure speculation.

It all depends on how well the Berlin book will be received and what the demand for additional German setting-books is (in Germany – I know nothing about any plans to translate any German setting book into English).

Seems like another reason to start learning German.

I was using "Germany sourcebook" as a generic term - Berlin will be a Germany sourcebook, a hypothetical Hamburg book would be a Germany sourcebook...

Ah. OK.

Two quick peex 4 those who are interested.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/244...aas-d2xrbdo.jpg
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/244...aas-d2xrb6p.jpg

Thanks to Google translator we can stalk the German SR sites. Now is there a translator for pdf's or would we have to cut and paste the text? Arts awesome as usual by the way.

There is no pdf, and AFAIK there is none planned, but I may be wrong.

A while back there was some talk about Pegasus considering .pdf releases, but not word since then whether they have reached a decision or what that decision might be.
So for the time being you will have to pay transatlantic shipping and learn German.

Yeah, there was some solid material in CFS, but like Berlin, we never used either. Imagine being from San Diego and finding out that you're now Mexican. But really, the worst transgression against California came in 4e when somebody leaped off the deep end and decided to write in the incredibly cliche and unlikely "Big One" scenario which sinks half the state. Still trying to figure out how LA and SD function since the map shows them to be essentially gone.

I'm with you that the setting has to make sense if it's derived from reality. If I'm supposed to believe that all the shit in the game works, then you can't really develop a setting in the game where it doesn't. People are more than free to use the Berlin setting as it was originally written. I think the R-guy seems to take it personally that people didn't like that it didn't make sense. There are different interpretations of Shadowrun, and none of them are wrong, unless you sit down at a table with a GM who has a vastly different one than your own.

But there's no need for the gonzo crowd to get offended when people discuss "realism". That term really strikes a chord with some people who apparently think if somebody else on the Internet doesn't think it's realistic that they are threatening to kick in the door of the game session and force that on them. Now, while that's probably the way it should be (because door kicking is fun), it isn't the reality.

Some new info on the upcoming release of the Berlin sourcebook:
http://sirdoomsbadcompany.wordpress.com/20...2073-shadowrun/

With the Berlin "double cover" revealed (Berlin limited edition can be read from both ends of the book, one offering the corporate POV, the other detailing the Anarchist POV):
http://sirdoomsbadcompany.files.wordpress....n-cover-kon.png
http://sirdoomsbadcompany.files.wordpress....in-cover-sg.jpg

I'm really looking forward to this book - hopefully it will bring Berlin closer to become a realistic sprawl, as much as this is possible for Shadowrun. Still wonder how many of the old wanna-be-anarchists have been working on this book (the last german-only books suffered a lot from the influx of teenage-punkish anarchism).

What would be interesting to me.. is more what the Re-Awakened Black Forest looks like.

To me the only way the Shadowrun Sprawl + massive depopulation of the world works.. is if most of the world is just too dangerous to live in, so people congregate into the cities.. creating these highly dense sprawls.. because outside is Nature with all her awakened bitchiness.

As an update: BERLIN has been released, and here is a link to some PDF preview pages:
http://www.pegasus.de/1984.html