Full Version: So... Whatever happened to Lars J. Matthews?
Don't forget, Dunkalzahn was a dragon, he might have target Lars because of some pattern he saw, and wanted changed for the next 5 to 7 generations.. maybe he saw a destiny for Lars, or one of Lars grandchildren become Blood Mages/Toxic Mages... or something worse, maybe Lars was starting on that path himself? On the other hand, maybe he knew Lars was on the track of some infomation he never wanted anyone to know?
QUOTE (Synner667 @ Sep 18 2008, 08:32 AM) 
If I recall, it was something akin to the Otaku [remember those, before SR v4 retconned them away]...
i would say evolved rather then retconned...
QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Sep 18 2008, 02:02 AM)
I really like the Fake Sin explanation.
But that aside, I think the question is "What are you going to do about it?"
Yup, there might be public outcry. But so what? What is the "public" going to do about it? What is a Senator going to do? "I use my legislative powers to make this thing that can't happen, not happen."
The long and the short is that is did happen. Everyone freaks out because it does potentially destroy the whole point having a SIN (crashes aside). So experts are called in, the FBI and anyone else who matters ICE his SIN to the gills... and it happens anyway.
There is always a way to do something like that. This is Shadowrun, encryption (for example) means jack. So the guy wakes up on the date (probably somewhere remote, since who knows what might happen, right?) goes to buy coffee... and his accounts are useless. Despite everything he, the goverment, and countless experts could do. And there is no proof he is himself. He procedes to a police station, and the cops go "Really? Your THAT guy? Sure. What are you doing in Montana?" And then a rent a cop follows him and kills him for the money while on his lunch break. Bad idea, and he probably knows it. Even if the cops put him under their protectection, people are going to find out where he is, and now he can't run because the cops won't let him.
Also can you imagine now many SINless are probably going to the police and the institute trying to prove they are this guy? A chance to take over his life, when you don't have a SIN? Probably going to cause a bit of chaos, what with bounty hunters killing the imposters, so the police have to protect ever crazy person who makes the claim.
Once the "impossible" has happened, what do you do about it? How do you prove who you are, when all the procautions you took were for naught?
And as for legal responce... "Ahh, you killed the target. I was told that if someone could prove this, I should give them this serial number. Have a nice day." Said runner finds out it's a black offshore account, and no one can prove anything.
But that aside, I think the question is "What are you going to do about it?"
Yup, there might be public outcry. But so what? What is the "public" going to do about it? What is a Senator going to do? "I use my legislative powers to make this thing that can't happen, not happen."
The long and the short is that is did happen. Everyone freaks out because it does potentially destroy the whole point having a SIN (crashes aside). So experts are called in, the FBI and anyone else who matters ICE his SIN to the gills... and it happens anyway.
There is always a way to do something like that. This is Shadowrun, encryption (for example) means jack. So the guy wakes up on the date (probably somewhere remote, since who knows what might happen, right?) goes to buy coffee... and his accounts are useless. Despite everything he, the goverment, and countless experts could do. And there is no proof he is himself. He procedes to a police station, and the cops go "Really? Your THAT guy? Sure. What are you doing in Montana?" And then a rent a cop follows him and kills him for the money while on his lunch break. Bad idea, and he probably knows it. Even if the cops put him under their protectection, people are going to find out where he is, and now he can't run because the cops won't let him.
Also can you imagine now many SINless are probably going to the police and the institute trying to prove they are this guy? A chance to take over his life, when you don't have a SIN? Probably going to cause a bit of chaos, what with bounty hunters killing the imposters, so the police have to protect ever crazy person who makes the claim.
Once the "impossible" has happened, what do you do about it? How do you prove who you are, when all the procautions you took were for naught?
And as for legal responce... "Ahh, you killed the target. I was told that if someone could prove this, I should give them this serial number. Have a nice day." Said runner finds out it's a black offshore account, and no one can prove anything.
Who cares about Lars?
It's the fact that someone -- doesn't matter who -- can just say that they're going to eliminate all traces of a person, SIN included, and then pay someone to murder that person (why they're even bothering to remove the SIN and identity, I don't know -- it doesn't make a death contract any more legal). It's the complete and total lack of fall-out from it that I have a problem with.
All right then. You find Dunkie's Body, and we'll arrest him on the legal charges for this.
If I understand things properly, this would be a charge of "Uttering Threats", or it might be argued "Conspiracy to Commit Identity Theft" and "Conspiracy to Commit Murder".
Second off, we're going to have to find a courtroom big enough for a Dragon...
Oh, and his team of Lawyers.
Wait... You mean he hired every Lawyer in the UCAS (Where he has Citizenship)? DA's going to have some issues with that.
If I understand things properly, this would be a charge of "Uttering Threats", or it might be argued "Conspiracy to Commit Identity Theft" and "Conspiracy to Commit Murder".
Second off, we're going to have to find a courtroom big enough for a Dragon...
Oh, and his team of Lawyers.
Wait... You mean he hired every Lawyer in the UCAS (Where he has Citizenship)? DA's going to have some issues with that.
well one could possibly go after the draco foundation. but the ice is thin even there as unless one can prove that someone showed up to cash in on it, they have basically done nothing.
As for other dragons, let's look at their citizenship...
Um...
Ah! Lofwyr! He's a citizen of Saeder-Krupp! No, wait, he's a CEO, and thus is given a lot of the same protections that the Leader of a country is given. Diplomatic Immunity. So much for that.
Who else?
Um...
Ah! Lofwyr! He's a citizen of Saeder-Krupp! No, wait, he's a CEO, and thus is given a lot of the same protections that the Leader of a country is given. Diplomatic Immunity. So much for that.
Who else?
Hestaby is/was on the Tir Council of Princes. I assume that grants her automatic citizenship in Tir Tairngirie.
This subject is exactly what I liked about Dunkelzahn's Secrets, the revelation that far from being the garrulous media-whore that he appeared, the Big D was just as vengeful, manipulative and, well, draconic as any other dragon.
He was just like Lofwyr but with better PR.
He was just like Lofwyr but with better PR.
Actually, I believe in the case of the Tir, Dragons are citizens. I think it mentions that several aided them in battle. Anyone have any obscure references to any other relatively unknown Greats?
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 18 2008, 10:14 AM)
well one could possibly go after the draco foundation. but the ice is thin even there as unless one can prove that someone showed up to cash in on it, they have basically done nothing.
And, beyond that, it's probably got the same extraterritoriality of all the good corps.
QUOTE (Athanatos @ Sep 18 2008, 03:39 PM)
Anyone have any obscure references to any other relatively unknown Greats?
Yeah, *you* can go try and arrest Aden for trashing Tehran. I'll sit right where I am in Kirkuk, Iraq and enjoy the fireworks. Should be able to see them from here. . .
Ok, so say Dunkelzahn arranged for some shadowrunners (lets say FastJack, just for argument's sake) to go into the UCAS SIN databases and erase any evidence of someone named "Lars J. Matthews" ever having existed. Now let's say FastJack does a really good job. At this point, Lars J. Matthews is just some random SINless. He can go ahead and tell anyone he wants that he's Lars J. Matthews. He could even go and tell the Star. But he can't actually prove who he is, because as far as the government knows, there never was any Lars J. Matthews. The Star is going to assume any physical documents he has is a forgery. So now Lars J. Matthews is just some random SINless, so some runner can go geek him and as far as the government is concerned, no one's been killed because there never was a Lars J. Matthews.
And before you say that everyone knows there was a Lars J. Matthews because he's in Dunkelzahn's will, how do they know that Dunkelzahn isn't just bullshitting everyone? Maybe it's a big inside joke, maybe it's a message to someone else, or maybe there actually is a Lars J. Matthews. No one knows, and no one's probably going to second guess the Big D anyways.
And before you say that everyone knows there was a Lars J. Matthews because he's in Dunkelzahn's will, how do they know that Dunkelzahn isn't just bullshitting everyone? Maybe it's a big inside joke, maybe it's a message to someone else, or maybe there actually is a Lars J. Matthews. No one knows, and no one's probably going to second guess the Big D anyways.
Basically, they stuck that in there to make this discussion possible.
Think about it people
Think about it people
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Sep 19 2008, 06:34 AM)
Basically, they stuck that in there to make this discussion possible.
Think about it people
Think about it people
A very intriguing metagame explanation, but I like it. They put Lars J. Matthews in the Big D's will just so GM's could make up interesting things regarding what actually happened to him. So "what happened to Lars J. Matthews?" depends entirely on what game you played in and what the GM decided.
QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Sep 19 2008, 11:24 AM)
A very intriguing metagame explanation, but I like it. They put Lars J. Matthews in the Big D's will just so GM's could make up interesting things regarding what actually happened to him. So "what happened to Lars J. Matthews?" depends entirely on what game you played in and what the GM decided.
Or, as people have stated here, entire runs that could be spun off of the resultant scandal such a listing would cause. Take the pro and the con argument we've had here - people saying that that's illegal, that it's something that no person in power should do (even those that aren't a dragon or a president), and that it's morally reprehensible and the people who say, "hey man, he'll be SINless. Who knows / cares?"
Imagine the story potential behind something like that. That we're having a discussion regarding a fictional element of a fictional will just proves my point. This is something you'd see on Sixth World News with various talking heads spouting off about it. Hell, watching the fireworks would be half the fun.
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