Dumpshock Forums > Shadow's Dawn: Diving into the past

BlackHat

Feb 21 2011, 07:34 PM

QUOTE (Seth @ Feb 21 2011, 03:49 AM)

I'm planning on 5..7 players, so the ones that have registered an interest here will be taken in "first come first served" basis. (that includes people that have already posted registering an interest).

QUOTE (Seth @ Feb 18 2011, 11:39 PM)

In no particular order, the players that I note have registered an interest are. If I have missed you - let me know

Blackhat
Ol'scratch - troll alchemist
Sabs
Pbangarth
Halinn
Zadine

I don't know if Drace and Sephiroth are still interested (Seph mentioned being on the fence about joining), but according to the first-come-first-serve I think they would both bump a couple of people if they are.

I think this game sounds interesting, and I'll work on putting together something in the next day or so (so I at least have a concept listed up there), but if Drace and/or Sephiroth end up wanting to play, I don't mind giving up my spot to let one of the those who might get bumped have a shot at it.

sabs

Feb 21 2011, 07:34 PM

Btw, Given that it says that Noone who has ever head a magic rating can have a resonance rating. How are you changing things to allow an immortal to become a Technomancer? That's a fairly significant change, i'm just curious how you're changing resonance to make it okay. (I'm neither for nor against.. just curious)

BlackHat

Feb 21 2011, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 21 2011, 02:34 PM)

Btw, Given that it says that Noone who has ever head a magic rating can have a resonance rating. How are you changing things to allow an immortal to become a Technomancer? That's a fairly significant change, i'm just curious how you're changing resonance to make it okay. (I'm neither for nor against.. just curious)

Can you be an immortal elf and not have a magic rating (like a mundane, who later becomes a technomancer)? I don't know much about immortal elves, but I did recently notice the conversation Seth started in the general forum, and noticed "Leonardo" was an immortal elf who "possesses the Channels of the Otaku" as well as developing a magical THEORIES (no idea if he was a mage or not). Either way, he might be a good precedent for a TM IE.

EDIT: Reference: http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm#44

sabs

Feb 21 2011, 07:40 PM

No, you really can't be an Immortal Elf and not have had magic. On top of that, one of the presets is, that we're a group of Immortal Elf/Drake adventurers with threadweaving who created a Group Pattern. Can't do that at all without Magic

Now personally, I think that Technomancers are actually Threadweavers who have learned to tie threads to the pattern of the matrix. But, that's not actually the official RAW or Fluff

And he's clearly cheating, he's way older than 18

and he's still got the Otaku stuff, which is supposed to fade with age. So Leo's a weird bird case.

pbangarth

Feb 21 2011, 07:52 PM

I'm working on a Free Spirit. Current format is Buddhist Tradition, spent much of the 5th Age that could be spent moving about in East and South Asia. Knowledge skills will heavily reflect a focus during that time on performing arts and other artisanry. Tentative name Mandala. Possible alternate street name Nelson.

From a quick read of AH's ancient file here are Mandala's tendencies in Relationships toward the big Names Seth provided ('-' means negative. '+' means positive, '~' means ambivalent):

Queen Alachia: --
Harlequin: -
Ehran the Scribe: ++
Prince Sean Laferty: ~
Prince Jenna Ni'Fairra: -
High Prince Lugh Surehand: ~
Dunkelzahn: ++
Hestaby: +

BlackHat

Feb 21 2011, 08:01 PM

QUOTE (BlackHat @ Feb 19 2011, 09:45 AM)

I'm also not sure what you meant by "Damage spells do your magic stat as damage". Does that mean it doesn't matter what force you cast the spell at, its base DV is equal to your magic instead of the force?

Was this ever clarified (if so, I missed it)?

EDIT: Or was it just pulled, I don't see it in the first post, anymore.
EDIT x2: Found it, so the question stands.

Ol' Scratch

Feb 21 2011, 08:07 PM

If it helps, here's a little bit about the character I'm planning to submit.

Ambrose (originally Ambran the Seeker when we all first met, and I have a picture available for him that I absolutely adore), was once a lowland troll Weaponsmith. He eventually met up and became the apprentice of the deep dwarf Jaron the Everliving, from whom he learned the secrets of the Philosopher's Stone and thus was the beginning of his fascination with alchemy. I was also considering the idea that he might have been a Lightbringer, thus giving him an "in" with Harlequinn and possibly Ehran the Scribe (I'm not sure if Ehran was a Lightbringer or not), but for the most part he hasn't had any serious relations with the other immortals listed in the aforementioned factions. Celedyr, Moleskin, and Sirrurg are key players in his lifetime, so I'll probably just delegate them to Contacts or some such. Still not sure how I'm going to handle that.

I have a lot more written about him, but I'm waiting for some feedback from Seth in private messages before I solidify anything. As I mentioned earlier in the tread, he's a master enchanter and there's a lot of possibilities that opens up for us as a group if we want to consider some more oddball possibilities. I think a lot of the big questions have already been answered though, particularly with us being in a threaded group and a unique example of friends/associates who have endured the ages. That, in and of itself, is saying quite a bit about us, I think. And i like what it has to say.

Would it be a fair assumption that we're all "good guys" as well? And if so, does any one have any ideas for some of the legendary feats we may have been associated with in the Age of Legends if not during the Fifth World?

Seth

Feb 21 2011, 08:11 PM

I'll try and answer the above questions tonight: the wife seems to think going to the zoo is more important than dumpshock. Ah well I will educate her eventually

BlackHat

Feb 21 2011, 08:16 PM

If its a paranormal zoo, maybe.

Sephiroth

Feb 21 2011, 08:19 PM

I think I may be able to play. It definitely sounds interesting, but it's an issue of available time for me.

also

QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 21 2011, 04:07 PM)

Celedyr, Moleskin, and Sirrurg are key players in his lifetime, so I'll probably just delegate them to Contacts or some such. Still not sure how I'm going to handle that.

What.

Ol' Scratch

Feb 21 2011, 08:30 PM

Well, Sirrurg will be an Enemy rather than a Contact. I just meant he's a "power player" in what I was considering. As it stands, I think Seth has another idea in mind to replace him.

BlackHat

Feb 21 2011, 08:52 PM

It would also be good to post which SR books you have/are not off-limits, if that information isn't posted somewhere else, already.

Drace

Feb 22 2011, 01:47 AM

While I would like to play, working on an freed orc slave who was turned into a Drake, I could easily step aside. All up to who Seth wants in the game

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 02:29 AM

Two other questions I've bumped into: Where and when are we actually starting the game? Should we all be based in the same general area, or will it be beneficial to have individual homes and such located around the globe?

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 05:08 AM

QUOTE

Btw, Given that it says that Noone who has ever head a magic rating can have a resonance rating. How are you changing things to allow an
immortal to become a Technomancer? That's a fairly significant change, i'm just curious how you're changing resonance to make it okay. (I'm
neither for nor against.. just curious)

Im not worried about it. If you have been mundane for a few thousand years thats ok with me.

QUOTE

Now personally, I think that Technomancers are actually Threadweavers who have learned to tie threads to the pattern of the matrix. But, that's not actually the official RAW or Fluf

I'm with sabs on this.

QUOTE

Can you be an immortal elf and not have a magic rating (like a mundane, who later becomes a technomancer)? I don't know much about immortal elves, but I did recently notice the conversation Seth started in the general forum, and noticed "Leonardo" was an immortal elf who "possesses the Channels of the Otaku" as well as developing a magical THEORIES (no idea if he was a mage or not). Either way, he might be a good precedent for a TM IE.

It might be worth posting a question on the general forum "are elves immortal". As far as I can see the question is unanswered in shadowrun: there are places that say yes, and places that say no. Those of you playing the game can answer "does a few thousand years count?". In other words I am happy for you to play a mundane now.

QUOTE

Would it be a fair assumption that we're all "good guys" as well?

In the early earth dawn times, just coming out the kaers, you were all horror hunters. Thats because you were some of the most powerful adepts around, and the unpleasant jobs fell to you. I would like it if at least most of you were good guys, and any bad guys put up with the good guys doing their thing: but its up to you. The first story I have planned mostly doesn't care about alignment, its about survival.

QUOTE

Two other questions I've bumped into: Where and when are we actually starting the game? Should we all be based in the same general area, or will it be beneficial to have individual homes and such located around the globe?

Feel free to live anywhere in the world. The nature of a group bond is that the fates pull you together.

QUOTE

It would also be good to post which SR books you have/are not off-limits, if that information isn't posted somewhere else, already

I am happy with the basics: SR4 (a), StreetMagic, Arsenal, Augmentation,Unwired, DigitalGrimoire. If there is something you really want from another book let me know. This isn't a low power game, so I am only bothered about avoiding the most broken elements. I will publish a (small) list of rule modifications: most of them are in the initial post of this thread.

Halinn

Feb 22 2011, 07:49 AM

Can adepts take a power point instead of a metamagic?

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 08:20 AM

QUOTE

Can adepts take a power point instead of a metamagic

Yes.

Note that as level 4 initiates you can easily have magic 9 or 10, as well as some magic points instead of metamagics. With 10 magic, and 3 initiate grades (See below) thats a potential max of 13 power points.

I think I would like everyone with high magic to have masking as a metamagic. As well as being generally useful, it will be difficult for you to be around other people with astral senses without them turning white in fear, gulping a lot, and maybe notifying all the guards. Nothing says "I am really tough" better than having magic 9 or 10.

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 09:03 AM

OK guys I am travelling a lot for the next 7 days (going back from New Zealand to the UK). So I may be pretty inactive. Please don't think the thread is dead: I will be starting on or about 1st March.

In the next week can all of you that want to play (and any new comers) post character ideas, and chat among yourselves. If you can come up with a group name that would be great: its much better if you come up with it, rather than me. It would be good if you have a competent hacker (someone who can take on a rating 6 system and maybe not die), otherwise I will put an NPC in with you. You might decide if you want to be lightbringers from Earthdawn, and if you followed some passions

The first post will look something like this:

[ Spoiler ]

Location: Somewhere in south America. Underneath Aztechnology research pyramid code name Huitzilopochtli.

Whose crazy idea was it to arrange for us to be arrested and shipped out as prisoners to Tzetlan camp 23? Well the idea had worked, and both the prison camp and the pyramid were inside the extremely challenging security cordon.

No one was absolutely sure why Tzetlan camp 23 was so close to the Aztechnology research pyramid, but statistical analysis had shown that for the last three months over 10,000 prisoners had been moved into the camp, and satellite imagery suggested there was probably only space for a few hundred. Ehran’s “guess”, and he was rarely wrong, was that the prisoners were being fed to a horror. Well he probably had some other information, and wasn’t going to share it with us!

Being blackmailed by Queen Alachia was nothing new. You remember her saying “Just pose as prisoners, tunnel into the pyramid, and then you have three tasks. I trust you will be adequate for this simple job:
1> Remove the internal astral ward by placing this item inside it
2> Deny any occupants access to storage room 27a.”
3> Hold until we capture the place”
“Why us” you asked. “Whats in room 27a” you asked. “What is the source of your information” you asked. “Need to know…and you don’t” was the answer. You considered protesting, but you suspect it would be futile. The phrase “control freak” was invented just for her. You have to wonder where the council gets their information from. The only good thing about this mission is working with the group again. That doesn’t happen often enough. The last time this happened must have been over 120 years ago.

At least you have been promised good Matrix cover, and a hot backup if you ask for it. The Queen may be a bitch, but you’ve never known her go back on her word. The external matrix will be controlled by her, but you will have to deal with any disconnected systems. You will be very surprised if the internal security is not on a separate isolated system.

At midnight on the 27th, the dark of the moon, you started tunnelling. 10 minutes later and here you are. The inner wall of the basement of the pyramid is shattered in front of you, the darkness of the inner store room only lit by the light of the two torches that you smuggled with you. If Ehran is right, and there is horror here, it will be the first time you have been near such a thing in over 5000 years. You hope you are ready.

You will be wearing prison fatigues. You were not heavily searched so items with good concealability / collapsability can be taken. Quite a bit of the game will be in flashbacks, so it is worth working out what sort of armour/equipment you normally wear.

I would like you to think what hold the Queen has over you. As an example, if you are a free spirit it is probably a copy of your formula that she will give back to you.

You have the first approximate post in the above spoiler, and I recommend you think about flashbacks in which you remember chasing down information and doing stuff. The council is Ehran, Lugh Surehand and Queen Alachia (I know this isn't the public facing Council of Princes, but you are fairly sure you know who holds the real power in Tir). Harliquin and Hestaby (in full dragon form) were present (but silent) for your briefing (short though it was) and you had the distinct impression that you were not the only group involved in this operation.

Your last three days looked a bit like this:

You had about 12 hours notice to get to the council, which was in Tir Tainglire
The council meeting lasted about 10 mins
One of you (probably the troll enchanter) is given a magic ring that enables magical tunneling. You thought this type of magic couldn't work at this level of magic: well you learn something every day.
You were taken straight from the meeting with the council to Aztlan, by private jet.
You had 6 hours to get arrested
24 hours after being arrested you were in the train on the way to Tzetlan camp 23
You arrived at dawn
During the day three bus loads of 20 prisoners each were taken to the research facility. The prisoners were selected at random it seemed. The prisoners didn't come back. If that's blood magic involved...its a lot of power.
Lights out at 8pm
You started digging at midnight

If this feels a bit like a railroad: it is. Some seriously powerful people want to use you as pawns and you don't have to like it, or just lie down. You do all end up in the tunnel though: the nice thing about a GM is that you can pick where to start the story.

Halinn

Feb 22 2011, 11:38 AM

I'm currently considering a Pixie/Windling who's good at stealth and the likes. I think that the spirit pact way of immortality is most likely.

Aria

Feb 22 2011, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 21 2011, 08:34 PM)

Btw, Given that it says that Noone who has ever head a magic rating can have a resonance rating. How are you changing things to allow an immortal to become a Technomancer? That's a fairly significant change, i'm just curious how you're changing resonance to make it okay. (I'm neither for nor against.. just curious)

I'm sure that the immortal elf that was posing as/was Leonardo daVinci was also a technomancer - although I can't remember which of the novels that was in (Lucifer Deck possibly, it's in my loft somewhere

)

Also expressing an interest in this game if it's not too late for a reserve spot?!? Always loved the Earthdawn/SR corssover even if the ED rules were impossible!

Always wanted a chance to use this character sketch I came up with ages ago! Drake

sabs

Feb 22 2011, 02:36 PM

I'm a bit torn right now..

I'm thinking a Dwarven Wizard, or an Orcish beastmaster.. moving forward.

I suspect I'll go with the Wizard. Logic tradition, a lot of languages, and a fair bit of face skills. Yes! All in a Dwarf Package.. sue me

Probably with a /little/ bit of Logic enhancing bio/cyberware (about 1 point)

pbangarth

Feb 22 2011, 03:30 PM

By the look of things, we don't actually need a fixer among our Contacts, do we?

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 03:33 PM

QUOTE

By the look of things, we don't actually need a fixer among our Contacts, do we?

Not to get work: its unlikely that any of you are actually hungry, and if you were you could just do something about it. You might want a fixer to recruit people, or to provide access to difficult to get equipment.

pbangarth

Feb 22 2011, 03:37 PM

Oh, good, you're still around, Seth. One more thing. Under the description of Free Spirit PCs in Runners Companion, we are told that their astral initiative is INT X 2. Does this imply that a Free Spirit PC's astral Attributes are based on their Mental Attributes rather than Force, as is the case for spirits in general?

BlackHat

Feb 22 2011, 03:41 PM

As interesting as this game sounds, I think I am going to bow out and give someone else a chance to fill my spot. It sounds like Drace, Sephiroth, and Aria are all still interested, and are farther along on their concepts than I am, anyway. Keep me on a reserve list, though, in case you lose people - which will give me more time to come up with something good (and maybe learn a bit about Earthdawn in the process).

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 03:49 PM

QUOTE

One more thing. Under the description of Free Spirit PCs in Runners Companion, we are told that their astral initiative is INT X 2. Does this imply that a Free Spirit PC's astral Attributes are based on their Mental Attributes rather than Force, as is the case for spirits in general?

Yes. As you know the spirits in the critters section basically have one attribute and everything is derived from it. All their mental stats are equal to their force. This makes it really easy for a GM in a hurry. For a free spirit we follow the more detailed player route, and use their mental attributes. So in astral combat for example: initiative is 2*int, attack is willpower + skill, defense is int + skill, and the damage done depends on charisma.

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 04:02 PM

QUOTE (Halinn @ Feb 22 2011, 05:38 AM)

I'm currently considering a Pixie/Windling who's good at stealth and the likes. I think that the spirit pact way of immortality is most likely.

Yay! I was hoping someone would try a Windling. That was going to be my second choice for a concept.

How are you planning on handling the Fifth World, though? Circumnavigating that was my biggest obstacle for the idea.

Halinn

Feb 22 2011, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 22 2011, 05:02 PM)

How are you planning on handling the Fifth World, though? Circumnavigating that was my biggest obstacle for the idea.

Very, very carefully. Rely on stealth and the innate concealment. All those old fairy myths and the like were from times things like me got spotted, I s'pose.
And of course by not being too close to anywhere a lot of people gather.

sabs

Feb 22 2011, 07:01 PM

Anyone else finding 450 BP hard to make a believable high-level operator

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 07:11 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 22 2011, 01:01 PM)

Anyone else finding 450 BP hard to make a believable high-level operator

Maybe a little.

(Okay, maybe a lot more than a little.

)

pbangarth

Feb 22 2011, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 22 2011, 02:01 PM)

Anyone else finding 450 BP hard to make a believable high-level operator

It's a challenging exercise for one who delights in creating PCs. My Free Spirit will have about 7 spells and 8 Skills. I rationalize those numbers as being artifacts of the 'long sleep' and forgetting stuff. And Skills and spells are relatively easy to buy with the Karma we will earn.

In the meantime, he will be Force 9 and have an Edge of 9. So 9 points of Powers along with the 4 Initiations, and 9 points to add to metmagic techniques (as a Free Spirit, he gets Edge rather than Initiate Grade). Speaking of which, he will have Shielding, Centering, Absorption and Cleansing, if anyone else is interested in meshing Initiatory metamagics.

I'm having a good time figuring out how he spent a few thousand years wandering around Asia, as an itinerant Artisan, absorbing philosophies, living the simple life, that sort of thing.

No, you may not call him Grasshopper.

sabs

Feb 22 2011, 07:21 PM

Gonna post my current idea as far as I've gotten.

[ Spoiler ]

* waiting for Seth to tell me if my live long and prosper background option is okay.

PS
I feel like this character should have Artisan skill
I'm contemplating dropping conjuring and self-gimping. Wizards in ED did not do much Spirit talking
This guy just doesn't feel "10,000 years old to me"

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 07:22 PM

My problem deals more with what I chose to focus on with my character, I think. He's basically a top-notch alchemist and enchanter (which consumes three Active Skills alone), as well as a skilled doctor, artisan (metalworking), and armorer. Throw in the skills needed for basic conjuring and assensing, as well as the few metamagics I'm considering taking (mostly Psychometry and Divination), and that really eats a massive chunk of my build points and free points. Nevermind the various shops and toolkits I have to buy, and the staggering amount of Knowledge Skills just to cover those same abilities. That leaves me with very little to get the traditional shadowrunner-type abilities like social skills, Dodge, Weapon Skills, and so on and so forth, even at really low ratings. Then there's lifestyles, fake SINs, vehicles, commlinks, flavorable Knowledge Skills, and etc.

So I hope there's going to be at least one or two combat types in the group. Cause I'mma need someone to hide behind.

That said, after having played around with some other ideas, I think I could make a very potent character if I had a concept that was more focused. Especially combat wise. Adepts, in particular, are quite powerful with these house rules. As is anyone else who would focus on skills such characters should have anyway (say, a Face).

BlackHat

Feb 22 2011, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 22 2011, 02:01 PM)

Anyone else finding 450 BP hard to make a believable high-level operator

With what little progress I made, I did, in fact.

Dunno if these observations will help anyone, but I noticed that as a spirit, attempting to get force/magic/edge as high as possible, you end up having to build all of your attributes up to 4 (by the design of the houserule), which makes you much more like a force-4 spirit than a force-9 spirit. Compared to the stock spirits in the BBB, your manifested form is actually a bit worse than a force-4, because their manifested physical attributes are usually a few points higher than their force. You could easily have most of the spirit powers you might want, of course, but if you have to throw down in astral combat, you're basically a force-4 spirit. Some of your powers will key off of your ridiculously high force/magic/edge, but for a lot of rolls you'll only be chucking 5-9 dice. I also noticed you can't actually become force-10, because raising all of your other attributes to 5 would cost more than half of your points (and you can't put more than half into attributes). Not that that is a huge deal-breaker, but it seemed strange that a non-spirit is welcome to have magic 10 and everything else a 2, but a spirit isn't allowed to do the same thing. My conclusion was that after dumping almost all of the BP into raising magic/edge/attributes, you end up as basically a force-4 spirit, who will probably be force-2 in the past.

Another thing I noticed when considering a mage, is that although you could easily have Magic 10, you wouldn't be unable to resist much more drain than usual. (Although being a grade 4 initiate with centering obviously helps). You might be able to spare the bonus points to max out your two resisting attributes, and pick focused concentration 2, but you're still talking about 16 dice (so 4-5 hits on average). So although you could cast force 10 spells, or summon force-10 great form spirits, and would have a lot of dice for the actual spellcasting roll (so you'd generate a lot of hits, and do something impressive), you'd probably knock yourself out with a couple of spells unless you reigned the force of your spells back down to something much more mediocre (like force 5). You still end up a good deal awesomer than a normal mage (getting 5 hits when a starting PC might get 3), but you are forced to act at a fraction of your true potential power.

Then again, I didn't really finish either of these designs, so my calculations might be off.

BlackHat

Feb 22 2011, 07:24 PM

QUOTE (pbangarth @ Feb 22 2011, 02:15 PM)

In the meantime, he will be Force 9 and have an Edge of 9. So 9 points of Powers along with the 4 Initiations, and 9 points to add to metmagic techniques (as a Free Spirit, he gets Edge rather than Initiate Grade). Speaking of which, he will have Shielding, Centering, Absorption and Cleansing, if anyone else is interested in meshing Initiatory metamagics.

Also, I dunno if you're interested, but in case you missed it, I noticed that Free Spirits have the option to take another power-point of Spirit Powers instead of a metamagic technique.

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 07:26 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 22 2011, 01:21 PM)

I'm contemplating dropping conjuring and self-gimping. Wizards in ED did not do much Spirit talking

That actually works rather well with my character, who has Incompetence (Spellcasting), but is (or at least likes to think he is) a decent conjurer.

sabs

Feb 22 2011, 07:46 PM

I updated my character, suggestions would be seriously welcome. I've never been really good at making Mages. (I usually make cybercharacters)

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 07:53 PM

Well, if you intend Sorcery to be his focus, my main advice would be to get Focused Concentration 2, perhaps offset with a Mild or Moderate Addiction to Psyche (or the redball combination of it and Red Mescaline), and splitting your Sorcery skill group up and grabbing Spellcasting 5 and Counterspelling 5, or Spellcasting 6 and Counterspelling 4. Those are the two big parts that jump out at me. Ritual Spellcasting is fine at 4 or even 3. I'd be surprised if it came up much, though it would have more use in a game like this than a traditional Shadowrun campaign.

If you plan on picking up a flashy Indirect Combat Spell, there's a new item in the War! sourcebook that basically functions like a laser sight for such spells. That could be a cool and interesting twist for him in the Sixth World era. Of course, Indirect spells are kind of hard to deal with Drain-wise compared to other offensive spells, but it's still something to consider.

You'll also definitely want to get Shielding and Centering as metamagic techniques. Absorption is pretty cool, too, and I bet it'd come in really handy in this game when dealing with other spellcasters; it basically turns counterspelling into a means of getting extra dice for your own spellcasting. Pretty cool stuff. Quickening is another nice one since you (and the rest of us) should have an easy time dealing with the usual obstacles that makes it sucky. Our high grades and Magic ratings, coupled with the Masking that Seth wants all of us to have, will make bypassing astral barriers a breeze.

Cybereyes are also pretty handy since you can't use technological aids to help with line of sight under normal circumstances. But I can certainly understand if you'd want to avoid that. Being a dwarf with natural Thermographic Vision certainly helps a lot in this area, but Vision Magnification is really hot, too.

BlackHat

Feb 22 2011, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (sabs @ Feb 22 2011, 02:46 PM)

I updated my character, suggestions would be seriously welcome. I've never been really good at making Mages. (I usually make cybercharacters)

If I'm not mistaken, Seth changed the initiation rule so that everyone (except mundanes) get grade 4 initiation for 0 BP. It looks like you've spend 30 BP on it.

sabs

Feb 22 2011, 07:55 PM

I need Ritual Sorcery to explain how he's still alive. He's doing a Blood Magic Ritual once every 100 years and 1 day. (Also why he's got the first box of his condition monitors filled in.)
Also, depending on how Seth rules, he's already at the -35 Quality Threshhold, so more neg qualities doesn't get him more points.

Mm, Did he? That's not listed in the first post, he still has 10/30/60/100 for the initiation grades.

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 07:59 PM

He changed it in a later post. We're all starting at a base Initiation Grade of 4 and Magic 4 for free. You can build both of them up from there using the normal cost as well as the house rules mentioned in the first post.

BlackHat

Feb 22 2011, 07:59 PM

Its at the bottom of page 1

QUOTE (Seth @ Feb 20 2011, 02:48 PM)

...After quite a bit of thought, I think the best option is to make you all grade 4 initiates as free present from me

You still have to pay for the magic attribute, but that should make you all feel a lot more potent. Magic 9 costs 80bps and Magic 10 costs 125bp. If you want to be a mundane, I will give 50 more bps to compensate. I am also adding a free spirit power that allows free spirits to ignore one point of background (this costs one edge).

BlackHat

Feb 22 2011, 08:00 PM

QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 22 2011, 02:59 PM)

He changed it in a later post. We're all starting at a base Initiation Grade of 4 and Magic 4 for free. You can build both of them up from there using the normal cost as well as the house rules mentioned in the first post.

I didn't see the thing about magic starting at 4, but it might have been in the other 3 pages of posts.

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 08:04 PM

I could have just misread it my first time through, too. Wouldn't be the first time!

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 08:23 PM

I'm considering refocusing my concept slightly, instead making him the equivalence of a Weaponsmith through the ages, rather than having him slowly turn into a Renaissance Man which is just eating up way too many resources for me to make him a viable teammate. Does anyone have any suggestions one way or the other? Most of my thoughts are in this post for the meat and potato ideas, and this post for the more flavorable side of things.

My alternate idea is to have him still focused on Arcana and Enchanting, but instead of delving into modern medicine and the myriad other things I mentioned, he'd be a mystic adept intermixing conjuring and melee combat (probably a hammer and shield as his preferred weapons). At least this way I'd be able to contribute if things go south, and it sounds like they will often, as well as still holding on to the key idea I originally had.

What do you guys think?

pbangarth

Feb 22 2011, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (BlackHat @ Feb 22 2011, 02:22 PM)

With what little progress I made, I did, in fact.

Dunno if these observations will help anyone, but I noticed that as a spirit, attempting to get force/magic/edge as high as possible, you end up having to build all of your attributes up to 4 (by the design of the houserule), which makes you much more like a force-4 spirit than a force-9 spirit. Compared to the stock spirits in the BBB, your manifested form is actually a bit worse than a force-4, because their manifested physical attributes are usually a few points higher than their force. You could easily have most of the spirit powers you might want, of course, but if you have to throw down in astral combat, you're basically a force-4 spirit. Some of your powers will key off of your ridiculously high force/magic/edge, but for a lot of rolls you'll only be chucking 5-9 dice. I also noticed you can't actually become force-10, because raising all of your other attributes to 5 would cost more than half of your points (and you can't put more than half into attributes).

I believe Seth's houserule limits only Edge out of the Special Attributes to the 1==>7, 2==>8, etc. limits. He doesn't mention Magic in that discussion.

QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 22 2011, 02:59 PM)

He changed it in a later post. We're all starting at a base Initiation Grade of 4 and Magic 4 for free. You can build both of them up from there using the normal cost as well as the house rules mentioned in the first post.

I don't think Magic is free, only the Initiate Grade 4. I'm also not sure he gives those costs for going above Grade 4, as he specifically says "Initiation grade = 10 points for level 1, 30 for level 2, 60 for level 3, 100 for level 4". I think he just gave the four to us for free. We may not be able to go above Initiate Grade 4.

Aria

Feb 22 2011, 09:23 PM

I'm considering a mystic adept/hacker drake but that may be spreading those luxurious 450BPs + freebies too thin...doesn't sound like it'll clash with anyone elses character specialisms though?!?

Thought Celedyr might be a good 'sire' for a techno wannabee

Ol' Scratch

Feb 22 2011, 09:28 PM

I'm fairly positive he intends for us to be able to initiate up to four more times above four. He mentioned a Magic of 13 as a possibility, and you can't do that without being able to.

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 09:37 PM

QUOTE

Anyone else finding 450 BP hard to make a believable high-level operator

I'm sorry if I am being a little too miserable in bp. I would rather start too miserable and give stuff out later. I will remind you that I am running the normal shadowrun characters pretty much as written: most people have 1 IP, dice pools are typically 8 to 12 for mundane opposition. The 4 grades of initiation, meaning that you can buy magic 9 or 10 with bps is worth a ton of karma: the initiation costs are around 40, upgrading magic from 5 to 9 is about another 150 karma for 40 bps. The free contacts, wealth, cyber/bio as deltaware and knowledge models, I thought represented well rounded characters, and are worth a load more bp.

The shadowrun games I tend to play in (pnp) tend to be low powered (the last game started at 550 karma-gen, which was seriously challenging), so I guess I have a distorted view of what makes a powerful character.

Given the number of voices agreeing, I am going to wimp out and give every one 20 karma as well. This allows people to get quite a few specialisations and stuff that are much cheaper with karma than bp, and lets them buy a few low level skills at 1 or a few spells. This should add a couple of die to peoples die pools.

I'll modify the post at the start of this thread

QUOTE

I don't think Magic is free, only the Initiate Grade 4. I'm also not sure he gives those costs for going above Grade 4, as he specifically says "Initiation grade = 10 points for level 1, 30 for level 2, 60 for level 3, 100 for level 4". I think he just gave the four to us for free. We may not be able to go above Initiate Grade 4.

Correct the initiation grade is free, but the magic costs bps: Magic starts at 1, then its 10bps per point except the natural maximum (10) which costs 25bp.
Level 4 initiation is a good top point: as I said you are the tier 2 immortals at the moment.

Seth

Feb 22 2011, 09:45 PM

QUOTE

I'm fairly positive he intends for us to be able to initiate up to four more times above four. He mentioned a Magic of 13 as a possibility, and you can't do that without being able to.

13 power points for an adept or mystic adept.
10 from your magic
3 from 4 grades on initiation (1 metamagic was spent on masking)

13 power points is seriously tough