That an elf, ork or dwarf with the human looking quality is still recognisable as their respective metatype under closer inspection.
Read the quality. It uses terms as "pass as human in most social circumstances" and "trying to hard to "look human""

Most, however, does mean exactly that... MOST.

You'd probably still look odd for a "human"

Not really; if you did, you would defeat the purpose of Human Looking. *shrug*
Please don't think I am touting Human Looking as a be-all end-all, becasue I do not think that. It just seems that your POV horribly clashes with the material presented.

What goes as human looking although?
Would a human looking Ork look like Dolph Lundgren or That Football hooligan with bad teeth?

Nothing implies that you're ordinary looking, just that your meta-expressions are subtle enough for you to pass as a human most of the time.

Yes, in real life there is a great variance of human night vision. Some humans have exceptionally keen night vision. Others, not so much. Where do you draw the line? Hard to say.


How do you explain the Night Vision positive quality? It's not exclusively metagenetic. Any mundane, non-Surged human can have low light vision. Dermal deposits, however, arguably are exclusively metagenetic, in that they are only present in trolls and changelings.


What does it actually mean to be an elf, though? It means that the metagenes in your DNA coded for "Elf Traits" are switched "On". You are correct that you can't dilute metagenes, and that you can't be half-meta. If your parents are of two different metatypes, you'll either only have one set of metagenes activated, or if both are active you'll end up human because they cancel each other out.

Metagenes are an important factor in what makes a metatype a metatype, yes. For example, Elven metagenes clearly result in extended lifespans compared to humans, a trait which is distinctly and exclusively metagenetic. Pointed ears are likewise a metagenetic trait, expressed by both elves and orks, but they're clearly not exclusively metagenetic, as humans can and do possess naturally pointed ears. Greater than average height and slimmer than average builds may also be metagenetic, but again, they aren't exclusively so, as humans are just as capable of having those same builds.

Metagenes are still genes, and they don't create exact results. Metagenes influence physical expression, just as ordinary genes do. An Ork may always be going to express Tusks, sure, as that's a trait which is coded for by the Orkish metagenes. But those tusks aren't always going to be the same size. Some orks will have massive tusks, others will have tiny ones. Similarly, while the Orkish metagenes code for heavier, more muscular builds, the degree of influence those genes actually have is going to vary greatly dependant on the individual. Some orks will be hulking monstrosities, while others might be more comparable to a human who is simply in decent athletic shape. The metagenes code for the heavy build, but how much or how little that trait is expressed can vary wildly.


Source for the part after the first sentence, please? I know that in terms of magical theory, yes, they are distinctly not human (as well as "sufficiently human" at the same time), but we're not talking magical theory.

I'll admit that metatypes have their own averages for their physical forms. Elves "tend" to be taller and slimmer, Orks "tend" to be more heavily built, etc. But the upper and lower bounds of the variances overlap with human appearances. Being tall and slight of build is not unique to elves. You do not need Elven metagenes to have those traits. And likewise, being of average height and average build is not unique to humans. You do not need to lack Elven metagenes to have those traits, even if you're more likely to express those traits if you do lack them.

~Umi

Unexpressed elven traits due to our low magic level.

Last point? Assumptions mostly, Dwarves clearly have higher muscle density given the fact that they are stronger then humans despite their size.
Elves are more lightly built as their average weight is only 2kg more despite having over a decimeter in length advantage, either they have lower body fat, lighter bony structure or are generally more "stretched out".
Orks are markantly heavier and sturdier then humans, despite having "human like proportions" surely length alone doesn't account for 40kg?
Stuff like that...

You know what they say about assumptions...

Dwarves on average are stronger than humans, despite their average smaller size. Some dwarves are weaker than humans. Some humans are dwarf height.

Same response, we're talking averages. Elves aren't magically exactly 2kg heavier and 10 centimeters taller than humans (which humans, by the way? Oh right, average ones). Some humans are "average" elf height and weight. Some elves are "average" human height and weight.

You know the drill by now, I'm sure. Not all orks are 40 kilos heavier than all humans, some humans are 40 kilos heavier than other humans of identical proportions, some orks are scrawnier than humans of identical proportions, et cetera.

Now how about any of the other points?

~Umi

You're getting hooked up on averages, they're not arbitrary numbers either. They show trends and correlations, and if the average falls within a certain range you can make certain deductions.
Like, elves are generally taller then human but they're also generally lighter.
Why is that? The average human of that length would be expected to be much heavier...
Also you need to reference within the same frame. Some dwarves are stronger then humans, most dwarves are stronger then dwarf sized humans. There's another correlation that makes you look for causation.
Even then Averages function off a bell curve so the shortest elf is still beyond the range of the shortest human, variables have limits.

What other points are you refering to?
Metagenetics is stupid on so many levels that it's not even worth trying to argue what's genetic or not, it's all macguffin.

The point I'm making about averages is that they are derived from, as you yourself say, a certain range of qualities.

There is absolutely no reason why an Elf cannot look like, and I quote, "a generic human only with pointy ears". It falls well within reasonable extremes of the spectrum of Elven physiology. Yes, the average elf is typically taller and thinner than a generic human. That does not, however, in any way preclude the possibility of a somewhat non-average elf looking like the "generic human only with pointy ears" that you claimed shouldn't ever exist.

As for the "other points" I'm referring to, those would be all the points I made in my prior post? The post which you responded to the "Last Point" of with your "assumptions" argument, and which you ignored all the rest of?

And considering you were the one who even brought up metagenes in the first place, to suddenly turn around and now say they're stupid and unfit to argue over, that just smacks of "Sour Grapes" to my ears, and I am genuinely astounded at your having done so.

~Umi

I remember this picture from last year, and I remember the person the character was made for commenting about it. She's an oni, and she dresses like that to 1) have fun, and 2) cause people to underestimate her (IIRC). I actually love this picture, I love the concept. Fun was had by all.

(Or, 'don't yuk another person's yum')

Heh... Awesome.

I'm going to have to steal this at some point.
I will, however, say that you can question it (e.g. "why do you like it?")

Oh, of course.
Oh, and the usual way to say it is: 'Don't yuk my yum'.

From an artistic point of view?
Yes, it's lazy and show lack creativity or talent.
From an game point of view... I'm going to stick with, close enough to be mistaken for one.
Dogs and wolves.


I used the canon explanations to back up my claims, that doesn't mean I think it's sound. Metagenetics is hella stupid and it's kinda pointless arguing the mechanics of it (I only stated the "facts" put forth)
It's hard to reasonably argue something when the basis is: Because magic.

So I simply answered how I justified my assumptions because that's something I can attend to using facts.


Browse 4chan or Deviantart long enough and you'll regret you said that...

Thanks...

Been there. I don't have to like what I see, but I'm willing to accept someone else likes it. The rule still stands.

Caveat: I draw the line when it involves hurting someone (or something, such as an animal), of course. Cruelty isn't to be tolerated, but I'm pretty sure people can understand that.

Someone once told me that the reason you see so many strange things come out of Japan, is because the culture embraces the fact that a fantasy is just that... A fantasy, it can't harm anyone and it everyone should be allowed to let their mind wander how they please.
(Also stuff about how restrictive working life can be and the stark separation between personal time and work time)
Don't know how true it is, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me.

I just made Cupcake's player squee, BTW.

Oh, that's just awesome.

Get that bitch a rainbow cannon. Bitches love rainbow cannons.

~Umi

Where can I order a Set?

While I agree with you, there's a point where even that has to be set aside.

I'm not kidding. I have seen the following text role-play ad, from a female character:
"I like large boys! Rape her until you get bored or she expires!"

Think about it for a minute.

Yes.

That's exactly what she wanted people to do to her.

How does that line go? You can't rape the willing?

Well. Yes. But keep in mind that it's a text role-play, so you can play a character that is unwilling and be willing to do it. Doesn't mean the character wanted it.

The rape wasn't really what I was trying to point out. It was the...ah...other complications. "Extreme size play" I think is all I can say without getting into trouble.

Fair enough.

There's something for everyone on the internet.

There sure is...there sure is...

And some of it really creepy.

I have seen rule 34 clippy porn. I am no longer surprised by discovering the existence of anything on the internet.

BIG MEH.

Clippy porn is by far on of the more tame things I've seen on (or off*) the internet.

*I've got an intentionally badly written** MLP....fan slash fiction in my email. Also one of the Peanuts gang that ends in a mass murder/suicide (also I'm in it, sort of).

**I can't actually describe why this one is bad on the forums without getting a 3 day suspension.

It's because friendship is magic - isn't it.

Oh, I quite agree. It's more the novelty value of it.

Clippy rule 34 is a bit like a shaved wookiee, you don't see it coming and you end up wondering why it exists...
(There's a shaved wookiee in extended universe for the record)

Not really. Rule 35.

What makes me scratch my head are people who role play tiny lizards hoping to get eaten by larger things.

To the point of "jump down someone's throat when they yawn" level of "hoping to get eaten."

*Draco18s has had it happen to him twice

'voreism. I've always been creeped out by that kind of roleplay. But, to each their own - if people enjoy that kind of roleplay, more power to them. Just don't point it at me.

Mhm.

I... what... I don't even....

--



Go big or go home!

--

In all seriousness, I started reading this thread thinking it was new. Then I noticed I was writing responses to posts that were over a year old.

That said... I still have to say....

I'd kill her on the principle that she looks like Strawberry Shortcake, regardless of whether she looks stupid or not. I can't stand that bitch. She peddles the crack that is strawberry shortcakes.

Now Rainbow Brite? She's cool.

Personally I love silly campy madness, it reminds me of lollipop chainsaw. The kind of ridiculous shit that's intentionally so bad it breaks the limit and achieve negative horrible.
Awesome, hilaribad or terrigood!
However she's a human, not an ork...

She is, in fact, and Ork (or Ork Metavariant).

Yeah.

I was a judge of a contest.

We had to invent new scoring mechanisms for most of the entries.

Those two though...those two are the only two that scored any number of "hazmat decontamination scrubs"

So, um, yeah... Another of Shortcake's Posse of Cute!

OP: Look at those knees...

"If ye hud a chunse tae chaynge yer fayte, wid ye?"

?

~Umi

The question is, if you were playing and you ran into that rigger with her little fairy drones and what not.. how would YOUR character react?

I'd probably scoff at her outfit and try to swat the fairies or something

I cry foul on that Ray, denne try to pass that of as an ork!

She's not an ork. But she's just as colorful as Shortcake.

Brighter colors paint a better target....

What you fail to consider PJ, the crazier the chick, the better she is...

lol Depends on what she's 'better' at. *Grins*