Here for those who haven't seen it already. Personally I think it looks awesome. Like the style very much. Not too sure about the Orks but I'll get used to it

Looks promising

Enjoy

Damn, it took me far too long to understand your thread title. I was like "What? Who are they returning it to?", "What does that even mean? Shadowrun is returning Art? Huh?" ..

After my brain worked properly though, I particularly enjoy the skyline with the Renraku building.

Love the art, except the orks.

Orks have never been green in Shadowrun, I hope Jordan puts his feet down here, and make it "Shadowrun in 2050" instead of "Warhammer/Warcraft in 2050".

I'll make a commet on the page, and hope that they see how many complaints there are about the green orks.

The game draws heavily from the SNES games, where orks were green too.
But I hope they'll change that for this one.

Me too. It's my new desktop background

I actually really, really dig these concepts. Way better than what I thought they'd look like.

Agreed on the orks; it's cool to leave them with green skin, but make it an option, not a default. I especially love the one with the wolf head though The jaws need to be fixed too, now that I look at them. The teeth are too spaced out and jagged, and they need their tusks.

However, prime troll there. That's the way to make 'em look. Let's hope for some troll girls too, they need better representation.

The teeth and face/general appearance was the first thing I noticed before even the green skin. I expected them to be more human looking. I'm so used to seeing green-skinned orks that I completely skipped over that in my assessment of it. Scrolling down though it does indeed seem like there have been many complaints about the orks...

I agree on the orks but remember this is concept art. I do really like the indian looking shoulder-plate. Reminds me of alaskan indian art.

The orks made me sad....

Also, I think that the Arcology looks too sloped in that skyline pic - it needs to be steeper imo.

Please take care to reinforce (negatively) the behavior of coloring orks green, not sharing concept art with us.

I already yelled at them. HBS response was "Those responsible for the green orks have been sacked"

And I'll make sure to reinforce it next weekend if we get the chance to visit HBS while I'm in Seattle

Drool

Otherwise those responsible for sacking those who were supposed to be sacked will be sacked?

i like them.
and as for orks being green in shadowrun:
Dorfs, Orks and Trolls come in all kinds of earthly colour tones.
dark/leaf-green, brown, black and the normal human skin colours.
elves in shadowrun come in all kinds of pastel colours to almost translucent in addition to the normal human skin colour tones.
and then there is still albinism, mutation and SURGE. Hell, even Bioware and Genware will make your skin into different colours.

seriously people, please don't tell me you are okay with half a ton living weight in 3m tall muscle packages as long as the skin colour is not green . .


skyline kinda reminds me a bit of this one:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3284/4596965...07ec0f837_b.jpg
and damn it, i just noticed that flickr cropped it <.<

two more from the old SRO Project:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4048/4596349...5bff1ab43_z.jpg
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1365/4596965...f278600d8_b.jpg

That is sorta a verbatim description of trolls, though.

which is, basically, my entire point . .
people are okay with:
magic.
Orks.
Trolls
Dorfs
Elves.
BUT DON'T YOU DARE MAKE THEM GREEN! @.@

The problem is... They're not green. <shrug>

Orks and Trolls are simply people. Which means they're people colored. You can have black trolls and native american trolls and asian trolls and pasty-white "Never been out of the basement" trolls. And I can accept some degree of darker skin, even when not entirely appropriate.

But they're not funky colors, because... Well... they're not.

And more important... Green Skin Orks end up looking like Warhammer orks or D&D orks, which Shadowrun orks most definitely are not.

Orks and Trolls are people too.

(Now, nanotattoos and skindyes are a whole other subject. You can HAVE your oddly colored character if you really want, but... )

Do you guys seriously want to "discuss" the orc issue? What the hell? I really am flabbergasted, how keen to "debate" some people are, however unimportant the topic may be.
Green is not the default color of an orc in Shadowrun, therefor people complain, because for them it does not look right. That's it, I saved you a lot of time and energy, there isn't really much to talk about.


Can you tell me, where this picture is from, please?

D&D Orks were never green to begin with. In the original D&D description they were pink to brown (just like humans?) with pigs snouths and pointed teeth.

The green color first appeared after Warhammer had it's influence.

Green Orc/Orks in warhammer make "sense" after all. They are part fungus (or plant depending on the current fluff), so green makes a sort of sense.

The killed off by M$ SRO Project.

Scenery looks nice, but the character art...dafuq? Did the art direction say "Japanese influences" and the artist read that as "anime", or is that the style we've got to expect? And what it with the orks' teeth, is that the new straight outta Mordor chic?

Green Orks are only avail 4 and 1,500 nuyen from SR reality.

I could totally see green biopigmentation as an ork pride thing.

this is totally awesome, I had no idea that Shadowrun Returns was even a thing. In the kickstarter video, he talks about re-acquiring the license, does that mean that the whole license for Shadowrun is back in his hands?

I'm gonna quote you and I'm sorry but I saw this complaint on that page as well.

I've never been a fan of when people go off on things for being too "anime". Just because something is stylized a certain way, and there are Japanese influences to their work, that does not make it immediately anime. You're not going to be seeing giant gag boobs and Hello Kitty popping out of shit and lots of WAIIII!! Or anything.

This is concept work, and with that you're going to get a certain level of stylization. Personally, the art did a lot to convince me to give the game a shot; if it ended up being Yet Another Game that uses the palette of brown, black, white and grey, I'd skip it, despite what else I liked about it. Using those colors and calling it "gritty" is the worst thing to ever happen to concepts, video games, and other related media.

(If you ask me, I thought it was very Jamie Hewlett inspired - especially Smoke Break)

Besides, these are concept images - if you'd like, I can pull up images from many different video games and show you how things can change between concept and final presentation.

You also have to remember that your hate of anime is so anti-shadowrun it's a joke. Especially when shadowrun has crap like emote hair, body modifications, etc, it's all anime context that came out long before shadowrun even existed.

This is indeed concept art and left up to the artists for style, that said I don't know what anime you are watching but none of the art I saw was particularly anime-esque. Unless you account for the fact that anime, which is drawn, is almost never hyper realistic, and none of this art is hyper realistic.

Considering the nature of shadowrun returns, top down, vibrant 2d turn based game, the highly emphasized stylized art is THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT LOOK NOT LIKE FALLOUT LEVEL OF GRAPHICS. Because in a game with limitations (2d, or as another example technical limitations to touch a large range of users like world of warcraft), instead of going high tech hyper realistic (like say elder scrolls skyrim) you need to go stylized (less polygons, more art) which instantly makes the characters look more cartoony, or artsy depending on your opinion. A prime example is borderlands, a wonderful well developed and loved game that was supposed to be hyper realistic but instead went down a unique route (a better one in my opinion) of using anime-esque or comicbook-esque skin work to color the sprites of the game.

What? Are you talking about SRO from Cliffhanger Productions?

EDIT: Ah, didn't notice the FASA Studios logo on the picture.

No, THAT SRO was a FanMade Project that had so much promise . .

Also another thing... we have oni, japanese meta-varient orks that includes (natural) red, blue, and orange skin hues. So that makes green skinned orcs even less of a stretch.

Yes it does. Anime/manga does not necessitate small child pattern and tentacle rape, it is merely a term for Japanese-style comics.



And why do you think people create concept images? Hint, it's not for shit and giggles, and usually not to express what you are totally not going to do, either...

You realize that studios request concept art from dozens of artists both internal and outsourced, a majority of it is simply for ideas or thoughts as well as how the art should look. Studio's may never use or reference the hundreds of pieces of concept art they have made, THAT IS THE POINT OF CONCEPT ART. It's brainstorming in art form.

Additionally you are sorely mistaken if you believe all japanese style comics are "big eyes and child-like pattern". Sorry but you are literally describing anything that isn't hyper-realistic as anime style. Especially considering that not a single piece of art shown falls into traditional "anime" categories. Sorry but you're wrong, and unless you want me to provide a complete sample study of anime-esque art just to prove it, I suggest you let it go.


Most of the images are done in photo-brush style art, especially the city scenes, the line-art slide is done in western-style semi-realistic cartoon style, the orc is akin to semi-western style cartoon art that is done today for most modern cartoons that aren't hyper stylized.

From Wikipedia
"In Tolkien's writings, Orcs are of human shape, of varying size but always smaller than Men. They are depicted as ugly and filthy, with a taste for human flesh. They are fanged, bow-legged and long-armed and some have dark skin as if burned. In a private letter, Tolkien describes them as "squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes... ...degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types".[14] They are portrayed as miserable, crafty and vicious beings."

Orks be Azn.

Furthermore, in the Earthdawn Time, Orks were greenish too, if i remember correctly.

ED: olive green, beige, pinkish-white, tan, and ebony (in all editions)

You used the wrong quote, as they are not Tolkien orcs, but Shadowrun orks:

Yet no one has accepted that orks can come in any damn color they please based on the fact that oni-varient orks exist.

Don't see the point o deh dicussion after this.

*nods*
Oni look as if Homers Make-Up-Shotgun got applied to them at point blank range . .

Which is obviously not the case if a studio releases artwork for PR.


So allegedly I narrow down "anime" to "big eyes and child-like pattern"


...or maybe I broaden the term to just about everything which is not hyper-realistic...

Are you planning on presenting a consistent point anytime?

You're right, instead of paying any attention to the points I made you are allowed to just glaze over it and ignore what is said.

No, studio's realizing concept art does not neccesarily mean it will all be used. (WoW, GW2, and others are all prime examples, with plenty of concept that doesn't get used)

As far as narrowing, you did by posting your concept of it.

So at what point are you gonna present a consistent point other than, the idea that if it's not hyper-realistic it's anime style and that doesn't jive with you?

If that's your stance then state it and move on, instead of arguing like you have any understanding of art-work style or concept art. If you did in fact have an understanding you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself by claiming that the above art falls even remotely into the "japanese anime/manga" style, which it doesn't as a classic anime. Additionally the anime/manga style is so evolved that currently the art that is produced for those genre's is so varied it can't be classed into anime/manga anymore. Western styles are more present in the art, and asian styles have bleed into western styles creating such a vast variety of art and style that you can't classify it except by direct artistic concepts.

Western styles corrected!

Looks like your idea of geography is about as good as your reading skills. Plonk

Oni might come in different colors, but that doesn't mean that other orks do. That's like saying "because Night Ones exist, all elves can be drawn furry and blue."

Looks like your attack on the point of the thread lost so you swapped over to a mistake.

Yes Eastern in my previous post is supposed to mean western, or american styles.

The point on Oni is that just because concept art depicts an Orc as green does not mean:

A: That it's wrong.
B: That it absolutely obliterates your suspension of disbelief as stahl stated.
C: Is the only color orcs come in.

I actually fall under Answer B. It DOES obliterate my suspension of disbelief, and therefore reinforces Answer A, because it IS wrong. As it obviously does/is for a lot of others too...

But...it is wrong. We know what colors orks -- not oni, orks -- come in, and that's "normal human skin tones." That's not green. If those were pictures of oni, they could be some crazy color, sure. But they're not, so to be honest I'm confused why you keep bringing oni up at all.

Because if a Subspecies can be born looking like Pennywise the Clown, then why can't the superspecies not have more colour tones to chose from?
Subspecies should need to get them from somewhere afterall . . and yes, i know, magic yadda yadda yadda, they don't need to have these colours in normal orks for them to appear in Oni . .
But that works the other way around too . . magic yadda yadda yadda Orks can be green too!

Because in a world where you have Meta varients of Meta Humanity, why are you questioning what color, shape, horn structure, eyeball number, limb number, natural dermal armor, fur or no fur, etc when it comes to any species of Meta humanity or its subvarients?

And saying it's wrong? Lol

That's like saying "People of one color ain't people no more! Because their different colored! It's Wrong!"

Then again if you knew about this sort of stuff you might recognize that the concept art may be of a meta-human varient, a hob-goblin or european/central asian/arabic orc to be exact. But again, how do you play this game with your lack of suspension of disbelief?

Because there is a difference between a metavariant and a non-metavariant. That's why they're called variants. Again, you're arguing that the existence of night ones means everyday elves should be drawn as fuzzy or blue, the existence of satyrs means normal orks should have horns and hooved legs covered in fur, the existence of cyclops means it's totally normal for trolls to have just one eye, etc, etc.

And if that is your argument, then I don't see what the point is in continuing this conversation, because while you're playing in a very interesting and colorful game world, it's one that is barely recognizable to me, and one that is incompatible with the world as presented (especially the parts that describe each metatype, and say nothing at all about any of that).


1) It's laughable and offensive of you to liken "orks shouldn't be green, because they're not green anywhere else in the source material" to us making some sort of racist argument. It is profoundly dickish of you to make any comparison between the folks arguing (over something this trivial) in this thread, and real-life racists.

2) The skin tones of orks are a canon matter. That skin tone, from edition to edition, has never included "green." Ever. For baseline orks, that skin tone is the normal human range, period. So, yes. Normal orks that are outside that range are wrong, meaning factually incorrect. The same way something would be wrong with a picture that showed green humans.

Frankly, this argument is a little surreal to me. Shadowrun orks aren't green. They never have been. This is something that's easily verified by looking at the metaracial descriptions from any edition of the game, ever. Orks are green in other games and game universes, yes, but not in this one. How is that hard to comprehend? How is it even a thing to argue otherwise?

And cross-thread sniping like this doesn't help matters any:

Especially when it's coming from the guy arguing against 23 years of published material.

All pigment is composed of varying levels of red, green, and blue.

Ork skin color is due to pigment.

Therefore, orks are green






and red and blue...

Trolls are a subspecies of homo sapiens. So if norms were drawn with horns, would you justify that the same way?

Also, draw humans as blue with four arms. After all, Nartaki exist.