Well, if every mission has opportunities to summon appropriate spirits, I'm all for it.
It doesn't matter if it's a piece of garbage 'city spirit' or called 'abomination spirit', IMO, though.
Full Version: Shadowrun Returns: Game Play Demo
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Mar 12 2013, 09:18 AM) 
Gameplay over rules, in my opinion.
I like the latter option, as this is what SR4 has done, and something which I heartily approve of.
I like the latter option, as this is what SR4 has done, and something which I heartily approve of.
Gameplay over rules. Make a distinction between the two types that is clear and unambiguous. Without a clear distinction, no one is going to "play one over the other" unless they feel like it, which hurts gameplay.
(Speaking of, it's that lack of distinction between spirits types--with some notable exceptions--that keeps them from being used)
I don't see where playing to the strengths of the different types isn't a clear distinction, so I'll call it your personal preference.
QUOTE (Sengir @ Mar 12 2013, 04:36 PM)
Or you let mages summon spirits from fetishes as shown in the vid (which would make fetishes the equivalent of Summoning Materials) and shamans work from emotions and elements without the twisted spirits because that is totally beyond what players should be able to do.
or make it so that whatever spirit you summon, in specific areas the chance of it being an abomination and it going out of control are high.
I like that!
*twirls his moustache and looks at the editor*
*twirls his moustache and looks at the editor*
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 11:01 AM)
or make it so that whatever spirit you summon, in specific areas the chance of it being an abomination and it going out of control are high.
So....
mages: use fetishes, low chance of spirits going uncontrolled
shamans: use in-world objects (less certain to have the opportunity to summon), high chance of spirits going uncontrolled
Do I have this right?
If so why the fuck would I ever want to play a shaman? They're getting hosed on both ends.
No, no matter what you do to summon.
If you are in an area where it can happen, you have a 50% chance of summoning an abomination that breaks free immediately and a 50% chance that the spirit you wanted to summon appears but that also has a 50% chance of breaking free immediately.
If you are in an area where it can happen, you have a 50% chance of summoning an abomination that breaks free immediately and a 50% chance that the spirit you wanted to summon appears but that also has a 50% chance of breaking free immediately.
Remember how the gate spell worked in baldur's gate?
You know where you summoned a pit fiend that would decimate anyone that didn't have protection from evil on them? (Which, for the record... the game doesn't tell you) Yeah... That wasn't fun.
You know where you summoned a pit fiend that would decimate anyone that didn't have protection from evil on them? (Which, for the record... the game doesn't tell you) Yeah... That wasn't fun.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 11:24 AM)
No, no matter what you do to summon.
If you are in an area where it can happen, you have a 50% chance of summoning an abomination that breaks free immediately and a 50% chance that the spirit you wanted to summon appears but that also has a 50% chance of breaking free immediately.
If you are in an area where it can happen, you have a 50% chance of summoning an abomination that breaks free immediately and a 50% chance that the spirit you wanted to summon appears but that also has a 50% chance of breaking free immediately.
You mean, apply this to both mages and shamans?
(If so, that math sucks ass, but I'm ignoring it, just letting you know that a 25% success ratio is piss poor)
Even so, mages get to summon whatever they want where ever they want (pre-run, "I like fire spirits, stock up on those!" run, "summon, summon, summon...") where the shaman is restricted (pre-run, "no planning" run, "hey, this room has Jack and All to summon with!").
Yes, the 25% success rate is intended in my case.
I don't like magic, magic can suck it.
And yes, apply this to both mage and shaman too.
if the success rate is too low for your taste, then go away and summon somewhere else.
it just makes on the fly summoning much more dangerous in certain areas, nothing else.
I don't like magic, magic can suck it.
And yes, apply this to both mage and shaman too.
if the success rate is too low for your taste, then go away and summon somewhere else.
it just makes on the fly summoning much more dangerous in certain areas, nothing else.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 12:24 PM)
Yes, the 25% success rate is intended in my case.
I don't like magic, magic can suck it.
And yes, apply this to both mage and shaman too.
if the success rate is too low for your taste, then go away and summon somewhere else.
it just makes on the fly summoning much more dangerous in certain areas, nothing else.
I don't like magic, magic can suck it.
And yes, apply this to both mage and shaman too.
if the success rate is too low for your taste, then go away and summon somewhere else.
it just makes on the fly summoning much more dangerous in certain areas, nothing else.
Congradulations on not addressing my actual concern.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 06:24 PM)
Yes, the 25% success rate is intended in my case.
I don't like magic, magic can suck it.
And yes, apply this to both mage and shaman too.
I don't like magic, magic can suck it.
And yes, apply this to both mage and shaman too.
Hah, good thing you're not designing this neh?
Say, have you ever considered selling your soul to Khorne? I think you two would get along just dandy
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Mar 12 2013, 06:41 PM)
Hah, good thing you're not designing this neh?
Say, have you ever considered selling your soul to Khorne? I think you two would get along just dandy
Say, have you ever considered selling your soul to Khorne? I think you two would get along just dandy
he's on speed dial
@Draco 18s
A Shaman can summon outside of the area as well as a mage.
he summons on the spot, but that spot does not have to be in the affected area.
so run out, summon on the spot, move back in.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 12:44 PM)
@Draco 18s
A Shaman can summon outside of the area as well as a mage.
he summons on the spot, but that spot does not have to be in the affected area.
so run out, summon on the spot, move back in.
A Shaman can summon outside of the area as well as a mage.
he summons on the spot, but that spot does not have to be in the affected area.
so run out, summon on the spot, move back in.
This is retarded.
Why is it retarded?
A Mage can't summon there without problem.
A Shaman can't summon there without problem.
They both need to get out of the area to summon without the danger of the spirit going berserk.
They both can summon outside of the area of effect and take their spirits with them into it without the spirits going berserk when entering.
Well, at least i assume spirits that were summoned somewhere can move somewhere else . .
A Mage can't summon there without problem.
A Shaman can't summon there without problem.
They both need to get out of the area to summon without the danger of the spirit going berserk.
They both can summon outside of the area of effect and take their spirits with them into it without the spirits going berserk when entering.
Well, at least i assume spirits that were summoned somewhere can move somewhere else . .
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 01:08 PM)
Why is it retarded?
A Mage can't summon there without problem.
A Shaman can't summon there without problem.
They both need to get out of the area to summon without the danger of the spirit going berserk.
They both can summon outside of the area of effect and take their spirits with them into it without the spirits going berserk when entering.
Well, at least i assume spirits that were summoned somewhere can move somewhere else . .
A Mage can't summon there without problem.
A Shaman can't summon there without problem.
They both need to get out of the area to summon without the danger of the spirit going berserk.
They both can summon outside of the area of effect and take their spirits with them into it without the spirits going berserk when entering.
Well, at least i assume spirits that were summoned somewhere can move somewhere else . .
And what, pray tell, is the difference between a Mage and a Shaman?
And why should emotional effects be AOE? The point, as far as I understood the video, was to be a boon to the player: hey, here's a goodie you can use. It might backlash, but hey, that's the risk. Not a "haha, you're fucked" deadzone on all summoning.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 12 2013, 10:05 AM)
Wasn't that shadowrun online?
it might also be SR:O, but this seems fairly clear:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/arc...ne-feature.aspx
QUOTE
Mage
In the Shadowrun game world, Mayan predictions prefaced dramatic changes to the world in the 21st century, and those predictions manifested through the birth of strange races like elves, dwarves, and orks, but also through the innate ability to wield magic by some individuals. These mages can detect the auras of other individuals, even tracking them when they pass behind walls. Mages also detect ley lines in the environment where their magical power will be further enhanced.
Weisman Says: “Mages use hermetic magic to cast a wide variety of spells including Acid Stream, Lightning bolt, Manabolt, Blindness, Confusion, and Petrify. Mages can also enhance other characters’ abilities with spells such as AP (action point) Boost, Aim, Armor, Ignore Pain, Stealth, and Heal. Lastly, Mages can negatively impact others with spells like Slow, Distraction, Disintegrate, Agony, and Mana Static, which makes it harder to cast magic.”
In the Shadowrun game world, Mayan predictions prefaced dramatic changes to the world in the 21st century, and those predictions manifested through the birth of strange races like elves, dwarves, and orks, but also through the innate ability to wield magic by some individuals. These mages can detect the auras of other individuals, even tracking them when they pass behind walls. Mages also detect ley lines in the environment where their magical power will be further enhanced.
Weisman Says: “Mages use hermetic magic to cast a wide variety of spells including Acid Stream, Lightning bolt, Manabolt, Blindness, Confusion, and Petrify. Mages can also enhance other characters’ abilities with spells such as AP (action point) Boost, Aim, Armor, Ignore Pain, Stealth, and Heal. Lastly, Mages can negatively impact others with spells like Slow, Distraction, Disintegrate, Agony, and Mana Static, which makes it harder to cast magic.”
QUOTE
Shaman
The mysterious shaman archetype has gained the ability to summon forth spirits into the world. They utilize an aboriginal totem to find summoning points in the world from which they may draw out powerful spirits to harness in battle. Numerous spirit types exist, including nature, elemental, hearth, and toxic spirits.
Weisman Says: “When summoning, shamans must ‘invest’ their own action points into a spirit to control it. The skill of the Shaman and the level of the summoned spirit determine the base chance to do so. If the player attempts to use more action points than invested in the spirit, the chances of losing control of it go up dramatically. A spirit that breaks free from a shaman is a very dangerous rogue entity with a high likelihood of seeking revenge upon the one who summoned it. “
The mysterious shaman archetype has gained the ability to summon forth spirits into the world. They utilize an aboriginal totem to find summoning points in the world from which they may draw out powerful spirits to harness in battle. Numerous spirit types exist, including nature, elemental, hearth, and toxic spirits.
Weisman Says: “When summoning, shamans must ‘invest’ their own action points into a spirit to control it. The skill of the Shaman and the level of the summoned spirit determine the base chance to do so. If the player attempts to use more action points than invested in the spirit, the chances of losing control of it go up dramatically. A spirit that breaks free from a shaman is a very dangerous rogue entity with a high likelihood of seeking revenge upon the one who summoned it. “
Of course, they claim it's a classless system, so maybe you can run a Mage/Shaman who can cast spells and summon spirits...
As I get it you pick an archetype at chargen and are then free to branch out however you like.
Most likely to give some structure to build upon to not overwhelm the newer players.
Most likely to give some structure to build upon to not overwhelm the newer players.
Looks like they're playing and giving a bit more information on the game on gamespot's twitch TV. It starts about 4 minutes in.
well . . if i had not pledged on kickstarter already, i might even go for the collectors edition . .
15$ Pre-Order and 20$ Retail? For that ammount of Monies, this does not sound half bad i think.
15$ Pre-Order and 20$ Retail? For that ammount of Monies, this does not sound half bad i think.
I eagerly await my Box of Feelies! 
Aw, decking gameplay isn't ready to be shown yet? BLARGH. 
Although now I'm just amused that apparently rules for Decking is just as hard to figure out for a video game as it has been with the tabletop game...
Although now I'm just amused that apparently rules for Decking is just as hard to figure out for a video game as it has been with the tabletop game...
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