@Tecumseh I really liked that last IC, especially the bit about accounting rules

Peripherally touching on something brushed upon earlier, why Razak may have recruited Jawsey rather than Raven initially. In Jawsey's background I had it that he'd been trying to make a go of it as a private detective on his own before getting recruited for SIS, and he had a fair number of points in Profession: Private Investigator. He wasn't Sioux but spoke the language a bit and had been there for his surgeries, and could provide some experience in the profession. But his strengths were similar enough to Raven's that it might not have made sense to have both at the time.

I think there's a lot to be said for "right person, wrong time". Razak might have sensed that Raven needed more time on her own, or needed the agency to establish itself first.

Or maybe there is a scent on the wind that he detects, and Razak is now more willing to gamble on someone who is less of a known quantity.

As for the IC post, I'll be playing Mato a little smarter, more and more savvy going forward. He'll be Logic 4 after the next karma expenditure, which is a far cry from his dumpstat origins. It was never that he was dumb; he just lacked confidence and didn't apply himself. I'll invest some knowledge karma to help support this. I imagine his confidence growing as the business continues to expand. Also, I imagine a lot of convalescing (and reading) while he recovers from surgery.

Jack, do you have the Schattenhandbuch books / PDFs?

Chummer is telling be about the HK MP75, which I believe is in Schattenhandbuch 2. It hits hard for an SMG (9P) and has AP (-1), which is rare for an SMG. But it's also 12F, and most SMGs are only Restricted, not Forbidden.

If you have it, is there any interesting fluff text around it?

I do - I'll sent you a translation as soon as I get home ( which might be a while today due to team event)

Wiz, thanks. No rush. It wouldn't be needed until next chapter anyway.

https://shadowhelix.de/HK_MP75



Not sure, that is everything that is listed in SH2 fluffwise, my copy is still in shrink.

Bye
Thanee

Okay, so it uses assault rifle ammo. That would maybe help explain the damage code and AP values vs. your average SMG. But any indication of why it's Forbidden, other than it just has to have something wrong with it?

My best guess is, because they based it on the Praetor.

Does it have a sound suppressor (don't have the stats)? That could also be a reason. The Raiden is F, too (I think, because of the sound suppressor, though the HK-227 does have one and is R; it is not really that consistent).

Bye
Thanee

It does not. Here's the Chummer readout:

HK MP75
+ Advanced Safety System, Basic
+ Gast-Vent 2 System
+ Smartgun System, Internal
DV: 9P
AP: -1

The rules are semi-consistent about what makes something Forbidden. Silencers and sound suppressors often do, but not always (e.g. Ingram Smartgun, HK 227). Ceramic or plasteel parts will too. But there are some that are F just for fluff reasons, like the Praetor and the HK 223C.

I think the main thing is: It's a weapon developed for state and corporate actors, not intended for the consumer market. Those like to have an edge over mere civilians.
It's probably the best SMG out there - just like the Ares Alpha is still the best assault rifle (and likewise forbidden)

It does have a grenade launcher, though.

Bye
Thanee

And a reminder that the availability of the Ares alpha was raised in the house rules (because it was so obviously the best option). I don't that this SMG was though.

No need to recap the adventures in IC posts (unless you want to). But maybe say how much you share?

Yeah, pretty sure the Ares Alpha is Forbidden due to the grenade launcher.

I like the house rule that basically outlaws the Alpha at chargen. It should be aspirational tech.

To the best of my knowledge Tamarind doesn't have anyone looking for her from her burning the Sioux smuggler group, but she doesn't know that for sure. So she's been living under her fake ID for official purposes as much as possible for years now, just to minimize how findable her real name is. She did use her real ID to re-enter Sioux from the FRFZ, used the fake while travelling (part of why it was as expensive as it was, people shake down foreigners more)

Mechanically I don't think there is anything to stop her from using her Sioux ID, just an RP thing (and some solidarity with AM on ID concerns)

Not necessarily - even without the grenade launcher it is slightly superior to the Yamaha Raiden (the other F-tier weapon) due to the recoil compensation that's compatible with every other kind of RC)

But yes, those are dream weapons for runners. Thank gods, that we are respectable business people without the need for heavy artillery

OOC consideration - but do you really want to double our rent and buy another lifestyle? Not that I as a character mind but it would put SIS under a lot of expenses so that part should appear in the IC.

About to go into a meeting (as the presenter) in about 3 minutes so this will be short.

I spent some time penciling out Lifestyle stuff last night. I have a fast and furious day of work but I'll type out my thoughts later this afternoon.

Meeting ended early so I have a few minutes.

Point #1, we were talking about moving to Bellevue instead of Downtown. There are some Middle lifestyle neighborhoods in Bellevue just across the border with Redmond. That would give us a safer place to live but still remain close to Touristville. Downtown would be much farther. Not impossible, but not what we have discussed so far.

Point #2, unless someone strongly objects I'm going to recommend that we pivot to 4E's rules for Advanced Lifestyles, which - in my opinion - are superior to 5E's. 4E's rules are more granular and more flexible and will be easier to use for what we're trying to accomplish. The advanced lifestyle section in Runner's Companion is a breath of fresh air and clarity compared to what's in Run Faster.

Point #3, the idea was that Mato's new Trust Fund quality could help defray some of the costs so that we're not doubling our lifestyle costs. (It wouldn't be double anyway, since 4E does a better job of separating out food and entertainment, i.e. things that you don't need to pay for twice with two different lifestyles.) I grant that the Trust Fund text says, "None of these lifestyles can be shared on a long-term basis..." but I'll point out that A) this restriction did not exist in 4E, and B) it's meant to prevent abuse that I'm not terribly concerned about for our current group, given that we've been playing for four years and generally aren't abusing things. If someone wants to stick to the letter of the law on Trust Fund then we can edge around it by having the quality cover the Redmond expenses instead of the Bellevue expenses, or something similar.

All of this is open for discussion and input. I drafted out some sample lifestyles last night but it will take me a bit to assemble them into something for the group to consider. I'm also wondering if it would be fun to do any of the "shopping" ICly (like in an Interlude) or if we just want to make our decision in the OOC thread. Either way would be fine with me.

No objection to any of those points. Although it's pretty easy to house rule the living expenses, since we know that they make 10% of the total (which is a bit low all things considered.

But yeah, let's just use the 4e rules instead of clutching something together ourselves

I have no idea what the 4e rules are but if you feel they are better by all means

Yeah, the 4E Lifestyle rules were better for sure (except for the many ways to reduce the cost, which made it too easy to afford super high lifestyles).

Bye
Thanee

I also have no idea about the 4e lifestyle rules (or 4e anything -- I came back to the game during 5e)

I'm ok with doing shopping IC'ly if people want, but I'd also like to get on to the next chapter -- Gilga has been sitting on the concept for 2 chapters and 3 interludes and I've seen just enough hints to be extra eager! So if we are doing IC'ly could it be after the next chapter?

The 4E rules could be abused, especially if the GM wasn't paying much attention to lifestyles and they were just something that happened off-screen in the background, but in this game our lifestyle is very much woven into the game.

I'm not proposing that we wait to get on to the next chapter. I'm just asking how much people want to handle ICly vs. OOCly.

I'm busy typing up some details now but there's a lot to share and I don't know what sort of patience people have for it.

I am fine with handling the new place OOC or at least the task of finding the place and looking at properties and so forth.

A draft of the current (Redmond) lifestyle is up here: https://stormy-waters-2075.obsidianportal.c...gative-services

4E used Lifestyle Points to account for customizations. The final price depends on how many lifestyle points you accumulate. The five categories are:

- Comforts
- Necessities
- Entertainment
- Neighborhood
- Security

And then you may separately add positive or negative qualities that further affect things.

All of the language is from Runner's Companion. I edited it lightly; for example, when the text offers alternative examples, I went with the version that is most similar to how we've been playing our Redmond lifestyle. I've also added a bit of commentary about why I selected what I did.

I'll try to write up a similar version for Bellevue tomorrow. Here's the current pricing for what I've drafted:

+ ¥2,000 Redmond
+ ¥9,800 Bellevue (includes upcharge for roommates)
= ¥11,800 per month
- ¥5,000 Mato's trust fund
= ¥6,800 per month
/ 5 residents
= ¥1,360 per person per month

Looks about right

I agree that we probably don't have to be strict in our reading of the Trust Fund quality about no roomates, but at the same time reasonably it would pay for something well sized for one middle class person, so perhaps two bedrooms (to allow for a guest) and packing in five people would probably lower the living standard and upset the landlord or neighbours.

At the risk of upping our costs, what would the numbers look like if we had two Bellevue units, one with better amenities and one roomate (Mato's place) and the other a bit more basic for three (who always come hang out at Mato's place -- I'm visualizing a bit like the old sitcom Friends where the women had an apartment across the hall from the men, but we mostly see everyone in the one apartment). I don't know if being in the same place already bakes in most of the costs, in which case this would add something like 1knY per month each -- not an inconsiderable chunk, but it still wouldn't take us too much above what we were paying.

(I'm not going to be stubborn about this opinion, but offering it up for consideration)

I know I haven't written it up yet, but the above - as priced - represents "High" Necessities. That gets us "a 200 square meter single family home with a large yard and nice garden or magical lodge. You have a two-car garage."

That should be quite sufficient for a happy family of five like ours.

Don't worry! There are some drawbacks that help bring the price down

I'm working against a Monday deadline - and trying to avoid working over the weekend - so a bit delayed it getting the write-up posted.

No rush!

I split things out into two separate wiki pages:

Touristville: https://stormy-waters-2075.obsidianportal.c...ervices-redmond
Bellevue: https://stormy-waters-2075.obsidianportal.c...rvices-bellevue

The Bellevue qualities are optional but I figured they would help differentiate the place from Touristville. We'd be in a very different environment and that might be delightful for some people and soul-destroying for others.

For reference, this is the map that I am using. Touristville is at the top-center, in the yellow section. This new neighborhood would be just across the Bellevue/Redmond border in the lighter-green section to the southwest. The dark-green neighborhoods are too nice for us. The blue neighborhood to the west is a possibility but we probably couldn't find a large enough house there to fit all of us (since that takes High Necessities) so if we ended up there it would probably use an approach like Beta described, namely multiple adjoining residences. Plus Mato wants a garden.

I love the Bellevue housing (not sure that AM would), but the details make for interesting RP and story writing way to go.

I like it - especially the HOA is rife for fun interludes (especially if Bobby decides to mow the grass the old fashioned way and turns into a bull)

I have some ideas for Interludes up my sleeve, that's for sure.

They did not involve Bobby grazing on the lawn but that's why you play with a group!

Speaking of which, is there anything else that people want to accomplish in the current Interlude? If not, we can wrap up soon.

I am fine with wrapping up.

Yep. I think we are at a good point to wrap things up here.

Next on the agenda would probably be to look for that place in Bellevue. Not sure, if you want to do that behind the scenes or at the next Interlude.

Bye
Thanee

I'm fine both with wrapping up and the Bellevue lifestyle (although Tamarind will dislike a lot about the place-- she's used to avoiding all observation and they have nosy neighbors and a local committee?)

You're not supposed to like it. You're supposed to roleplay about the social costs and personal compromises involved in ensuring your physical safety!

Yes, that is why _I'm_ fine with it . I should have used a few more words to express that thought, more like "I'm perfectly fine with it, but just to warn you that come IC time, don't expect Tamarind to be enthusiastic about the location in the IC part. She's used to avoiding notice, so nosy neighbors and an area committee will seem like bad compromise to her. (But in the end she'll defer to the senior members /majority) ".

I think I'll use the next Interlude to have us moving in. That pushes our move-in date a bit farther out in the timeline than we were expecting but this will let Tamarind and Raven spend their month of pre-paid Lifestyle.

I'll describe some bookkeeping stuff here for Thanee's benefit.

Each GM can make karma/nuyen/gear/Contact/Quality/etc awards as they please. Most of our karma awards average out to 0.10 to 0.12 karma per IC post. I usually just multiply by 0.11. We have 82 posts in the IC thread for this interlude so 82 * 0.11 = 9.02 karma, which I'll round off.

We also grant knowledge karma, which is karma specifically for knowledge skills and/or Contacts. (Use chargen costs for Contacts.) Purchased Contacts usually start off at Loyalty 1 unless there's a story reason for them to be higher. Knowledge karma is usually about half the value of our regular karma award.

Karma: 9
Knowledge Karma: 4

At the end (or beginning) of an IC month, we make a Teamwork Charisma + Etiquette (Corporate) [Social] test. We'll do that now since gilga's chapter will skip us forward to March. Each net hit reduces the monthly cost of our communal Lifestyle by 1,000 nuyen, representing our private investigator income from the jobs that we don't RP. For now we'll use our legacy price of ¥7,200 for the Touristville location since Tamarind and Raven are covered by their chargen Lifestyles, and I don't want to try to prorate things for Jawsey's mid-month departure.

Jawsey is usually our lead for this roll but now he's gone so that means AM is our new Teamwork leader. Here are Teamwork dice from Mato:

Charisma 4 + Etiquette 2 + Corporate 2: 8d6t5 2 hits

Etiquette: 6d6t5 3

Nice, that gives me just enough karma to raise Bobby's magic rating along with the initiation.

I'm raising Bobby's knowledge on architecture, use the power point to gain Rapid Healing, Low Light and Thermographic Vision and spend another 5 karma on Revenant Adept. (Let's call that the Cockroach Approach)

Well, slow month: Luckily, we should get money from decker club.
Charisma + Etiquette + Teamwork: 15d6t5 3 - that is really low I'll reroll.
Charisma + Etiquette + Teamwork (reroll): 12d6t5 2 - oh wow 5 hits in 27 dice guess it really is not our best month.

Well, we made 5k. (and is it +10k from decker club?)

That Karma per post thing for the Interlude is a nice idea. Raven will probably just pick up a new spell and/or alchemical spell to widen her repertoire a little, or learn to summon Spirits of Man (any suggestions? I guess, that is something that would also be discussed, like what would be a useful spell to have).

I also used "Knowledge Karma" back in 4E, that seems to be a fairly common houserule.

Should Tamarind and Raven also do those Teamwork rolls? Would First Impression apply there?

Bye
Thanee

AM only had 5 points in the etiquette skill. So dhe cannot get more teamwork dice.

Ok.

Thinking about Nausea as a spell to help out in combat situations. That can incapacitate a target for a short time, if it works.

Bye
Thanee

I thought I'd posted from my phone earlier but it didn't go through -- anyway Tamarind only 1 success on 9 dice for etiquette + intuition (due to empathetic listener it replaces charisma) and AM couldn't use it anyway.

Also when looking through my character sheet I discovered a couple of errors:
- I mis-priced codeslinger at 5 instead of the proper 10 (I'd confused the price with that of overclocker)
- I'd forgotten to remove a motion detector that I'd intended to get rid of when I decided to give Uncle an ultrasound sensor

I fixed those two, and as a consequence out of character creation she did not have 1 point in Seattle Street Gangs and did not have the quality Subtle Pilot (groundcraft) but did have 400 more nuyen.

Spending the 9 karm + 4 knowledge karms
8 points to buy subtle pilot (groundcraft)
1 point of karma being saved for later
2 kn/cont karma to get Cutty as an L1C1 contact
1 kn/cont karma on Sioux Sign Language 1
1 kn/cont karma on Touristville street gangs 1

I'm assuming that Tamarind's lifestyle payment goes through mid-March (paid for a full month), and that hopefully by then we'll have both money and a common lifestyle or she'll be on the street.

I did however make the first interest payment on her 'in debt' payment on March 1st, and I'll pro-rate lifestyle to make those payments on the 1st of each month as well.

I'm trying to wrap my head around nuyen advancements vs. karma advancements and there are so many possibilities my head is about to explode. I've seriously been at this for days. Mundanes are such a pain.

I don't know how many times while making Tamarind I said to myself "it isn't too late to just make an aspected summoner instead. I could do it in 15 minutes." Then I'd go back to staring at lists of drones and mods and losing my mind. I never did get my head wrapped around what would be good and just settled for what would be fun to write.

Wait, we were talking about Tamarind and Raven being on double karma until caught up with the rest. So would they be at 18 karma from the interlude?

We did talk about that, didn't we. Yes, let's do that for Tamarind and Raven. Thanks for the reminder.