Full Version: Possible New Game
| QUOTE (Panzergeist) |
| What about languages? Can I take English so I can understand it? Is there some cat language I can take to talk to cats, or do I just automatically get the ability to convey emotions and such, like in real life, and nothing else? |
I think everyone else is doing this by PM.
Yes, you can take a human language. You can take cat talk for a language. You have the ability to convey emotions and such IRL? Cool.
| QUOTE |
| Also, what kind of climbing/balance bonuses do I get? I figure cats should have the natural equivalnet of climbings claws, balance tail, and balance augmentation, since they are such great climbers and can twist in midair to land on their feet. |
The claws will not help on concrete and steel. You can ask about bonus depending on material.
The tail is nothing like a balance tail. You can have equivalent of balance augmenter.
| QUOTE |
| Lastly, what does the intelligence rating of 3/8 mean? Is the 3 the cat's intelligence, and the 8 the number of dice it gets for perception tests? |
Yes, but don't worry about it, you are not the blackberry cat listed in critters. You can have olfactory booster. Do cats have any special type of hearing? I could see the shape of the ears giving something akin to spatial recognition.
It looks like all the animal based critters are entitled to some heightened senses.
| QUOTE (JaronK @ Jun 19 2004, 02:53 AM) |
| Hmm. I was tinkering around recently with an albino troll ghoul adept character, basically an escaped Aztecnology experiement. When I made him, I used 210 build points though. I could probably shrink him down a bit (he was designed as a possible villian/plot device for a game I'm GMing). He's basically got a Hunchback of Notre Dame thing going, except he hides in the sewers most of the time. All deltaware gear, most of it cybereye mods and a pair of Dikoted Spurs. If I were to submit this guy, would you want me to try to shrink him down, or just submit the current version and let you tweak it? JaronK |
Please don't submit it. I hate saying no, but that....leaves me speechless.
If it were given a try, I'd need to see the build on it. It sounds like it would need toned down. But I guess Albino, troll, ghoul, adept burns 70 points by itself, so it may not need toned down as much as I first thought.
Is it going to be a viable character, or are you planning on doing a lot of time in the sewers?
| QUOTE (Panzergeist @ Jun 19 2004, 03:02 AM) |
| Adaptive coloration doesn't really have a scalable power. I don't see any way I could take it in "levels" like the other powers, so it needs a one-time build point cost, like low-light vision. Ditto for shadow cloak. |
I was thinking of it like invisibility or camouflage spells, but you are right. They stack and are either automatic or free to use, so I'm grouping them together and charging 6 points.
Those of you making shapeshifters or critters should probably suggest what enhanced senses you have. I would rather see these senses roleplayed than just asking for TN modifiers. You could give a description IC, then remind the GM OoC that you have an enhanced sense.
I am willing to take suggestions on how to keep this idea from becoming a convoluted mess.
It seems like there are going to be several independant streams of stories flowing at the same time. One thing I was considering was assigning colors. Another thing was to try to keep one time standard. I can foresee some people/groups moving right along and don't want that to conflict with slower posters. Solution 1.) Break them off into a seperate thread. This conflicts with the openness and interaction I am hoping for. Solution 2.) Let the infrequent posters pay for not keeping up. Kind of harsh.
REMEMBER your character (so you) is going to be the one creating the story. If you are looking for a shadowrun, you need to check the classifieds, or go to the runner bar, or whatever. Trouble will come knocking on your door more frequently than opportunity. A few people have already said they have goals they wish to pursue. This is great
It seems like there are going to be several independant streams of stories flowing at the same time. One thing I was considering was assigning colors. Another thing was to try to keep one time standard. I can foresee some people/groups moving right along and don't want that to conflict with slower posters. Solution 1.) Break them off into a seperate thread. This conflicts with the openness and interaction I am hoping for. Solution 2.) Let the infrequent posters pay for not keeping up. Kind of harsh.
REMEMBER your character (so you) is going to be the one creating the story. If you are looking for a shadowrun, you need to check the classifieds, or go to the runner bar, or whatever. Trouble will come knocking on your door more frequently than opportunity. A few people have already said they have goals they wish to pursue. This is great
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| Please don't submit it. I hate saying no, but that....leaves me speechless. If it were given a try, I'd need to see the build on it. It sounds like it would need toned down. But I guess Albino, troll, ghoul, adept burns 70 points by itself, so it may not need toned down as much as I first thought. Is it going to be a viable character, or are you planning on doing a lot of time in the sewers? |
Well, he burns tons of points on his race and all... the end result is that yes, he'd mostly stay in the sewers, and behave very much like a pack animal, working with others. If you don't like it that's fine... he didn't seem that brutal to me (good combat stats, but close range only... he feels like playing an attack dog), but it's all good if you don't like him. He just happened to be the crazy character I was playing with at the time.
JaronK
A couple of things that have come up that may be of interest to all:
Initiation: I allow initiation at chargen. You can pay with spell points or BP. You may pay 3 points and join a group. Get with me on approving the group. You may take ordeals, and most ordeals can be repeated. Meditation, astral quest, familiar.
Hunted Flaw and Enemies: You will likely start the game with an enemy or enemies based on resources as per SRComp. Or you may take the enemy flaw to gain a zero point enemy. You may take the hunted flaw and use the option to add points (depending on value of flaw) to one of these enemies.
The only enemy hunting you is the one you chose to add points to (or the enemy you added if you took that option of the hunted flaw.) Not every current and future enemy will automatically hunt you for taking this flaw. Some future enemies may hunt you, but it is not because of this flaw.
Example: You took resources at 5000. You start with no enemies. You take the extra enemy flaw. You have a 0 point (or greater if you desire) enemy. You take the 6 point Hunted flaw and choose to get a new 5 or 6 point enemy who is hunting you or add 3 points to an existing enemy. You decide to add 3 points to your 0 point enemy. You have a middle power enemy hunting you almost forever.
The nature of this game will make flaws come into play much more easily than most games. Probably more often than even tabletop games. They may be the driving force in your characters story. So please consider them carefully.
Cyberlimbs: Cut the essence and base cost in half. Base attribute is equal to characters starting attribute. Increase Strength and Quickness as printed, but the cost covers all cyberlimbs.
Initiation: I allow initiation at chargen. You can pay with spell points or BP. You may pay 3 points and join a group. Get with me on approving the group. You may take ordeals, and most ordeals can be repeated. Meditation, astral quest, familiar.
Hunted Flaw and Enemies: You will likely start the game with an enemy or enemies based on resources as per SRComp. Or you may take the enemy flaw to gain a zero point enemy. You may take the hunted flaw and use the option to add points (depending on value of flaw) to one of these enemies.
The only enemy hunting you is the one you chose to add points to (or the enemy you added if you took that option of the hunted flaw.) Not every current and future enemy will automatically hunt you for taking this flaw. Some future enemies may hunt you, but it is not because of this flaw.
Example: You took resources at 5000. You start with no enemies. You take the extra enemy flaw. You have a 0 point (or greater if you desire) enemy. You take the 6 point Hunted flaw and choose to get a new 5 or 6 point enemy who is hunting you or add 3 points to an existing enemy. You decide to add 3 points to your 0 point enemy. You have a middle power enemy hunting you almost forever.
The nature of this game will make flaws come into play much more easily than most games. Probably more often than even tabletop games. They may be the driving force in your characters story. So please consider them carefully.
Cyberlimbs: Cut the essence and base cost in half. Base attribute is equal to characters starting attribute. Increase Strength and Quickness as printed, but the cost covers all cyberlimbs.
Tisoz, for initiation are you paying the karma cost in spell points/BP then? And are the two interchangeable? I.E. Can I pay a combination of spell points and BP, or does it have to be all one or the other?
Spell points can be used like karma. That is pretty much a canon thing.
If you want to use BP in their place, you can. It isn't the wisest use of BP, unless your character has no spell points. You should probably message me first to see if there is a better option for your character. A case where you are a spell point or 2 short of getting the next initiation or bonding a focus are probably the best examples of good reason to do so.
Yes, you may mix them.
If you want to use BP in their place, you can. It isn't the wisest use of BP, unless your character has no spell points. You should probably message me first to see if there is a better option for your character. A case where you are a spell point or 2 short of getting the next initiation or bonding a focus are probably the best examples of good reason to do so.
Yes, you may mix them.
Hello Everyone,
At the request of Tisoz, I am posting a list of ideas I suggested to him via PM. It is up to him to decide to what degree he will implement the ideas, but he seems to be satisfied with them as a basic and reasonably accurate sketch. Note this is from a PM, so some ideas the general public may not understand, but the ideas are still identifiable.
In regards to keeping the game from being a mess, a few ideas.
First, advertise to other GMs the possibility of running their games under your umbrella. It may not even take a lot of work for them, simply stating that their threads are included under your overarching thread. This gives an advantage to them for recruiting other players, and allows a diversification of people in the SR world. For example, imagine this.
Your game, which we will call 'World' is the overarching thread. Whenever a character is not involved in a particular game, he may post in 'World'. This assumes that the character in question has been approved by you already. Of course a non-approved character cannot post.
When a character enters a run, he then posts to that Game, which we will designate IC 1. He will also post in the attached OOC 1. His character would then be further subject to the requirements laid down by GM A.
Now the character has four threads to check:
World IC- This covers all the things in his world NOT DIRECTLY related to his current job.
World OOC- Covers all the mechanics and out of character stuff in World IC.
IC 1- Covers all the things DIRECTLY related to his current job.
OOC 1- Covers all the mechanics and out of character stuff in IC 1.
Note that both World IC and IC 1 happen concurrently. Events in the outside world can and do affect a job.
There are a few advantages to this approach.
1. It allows other GMs to easily integrate themsleves if they choose.
2. Regardless of how many other GMs there are, it allows the players and GM(s) to separate themselves and know what is relevant to them. For example, I would know I have to check World IC and OOC, as well as IC 1 and OOC 1 (the job I am involved in). I would not check IC 2 and OOC 2, because I am not involved in this job.
3. No separate game will slow down the overall flow of the world.
4. It still prevents players from playing characters not approved by GMs. For example, if GM A decides he doesn't want shapeshifters, or wants shapeshifters made with different rules from yours, no problem. He can simply not allow any shapeshifters from World into his game, or only allow shapeshifters that have been run past him. Note this does require a degree of cooperation between GMs. Theoretically and practically, it would probably be best to set certain standards for characters in World and all subgames. If GMs are willing to agree to it, then they can play in World. If not, probably best to stay separate.
5. It provides an alternative solution for slow posters. It can be a stated assumption that if a player does not post anything to the contrary, if they have not posted for X days it will be assumed they have gone into hiding. And then they aren't out of World, they will just be out of IC 1. In game terms, they dropped out of IC 1 and are hiding, but that does not remove them from World. It also provides a quick solution for those who are responsible to post, and a convenient mechanism for them both to 'retreat' to, and announce it.
6. Provides stimulus outside of the run itself. (see below)
There's probably other advantages and disadvantages, but I'll move along so as not to bore you senseless.
Suggestions for people posting frequently and with quality posts? A few.
1. Provide stimulus and reward players who provide the game with stimulus. Most good players love to post, that's why we play. The problem is often there's not really much to respond to, especially during legwork time. Thus the benefit of number 6. The more stimuli and opportunities to respond, the more we will.
2. Require X amount of background. Reward those who provide significant hooks to work with. 20 questions answered in detail provides plenty of hooks to work with.
3. Encourage linked backgrounds. Those two guys I mentioned (two friends I'm working on coordinating backgrounds with)? We will almost certainly link our characters together, providing 3 times the opportunity for stimulus. Stimulus for just one of us will almost certainly provide all three of us, which makes your life a lot easier.
4. Reward those who take the initiative to start or accomplish personal goals. One tabletop game I was in, I was really excited, because I and this other guy were working on building a nightclub and running a racket out of it. We started this during a slow night when it was just us two. Unfortunately when the others came back, our GM wouldn't let us pursue our idea anymore. It sucked. Point being, there's no point having personal goals if you aren't going to A) pursue them, and B) be helped to pursue them. Heck just from Dragon alone and an admittedly incomplete 20 Questions you and I could probably think of at least 5, if not more, stories that could be explored, developed, and pursued. Frankly, I'd like to, but I can't in our current game because it would be at the expense of the game. But in your new game, it could happen. If I finished the 20 Questions, notably the sections on contacts and enemies (which reminds me to get back to work on it) there'd be at least 5 more possible runs.
5. One thing I would be willing to do and maybe others as well, would be to play NPC's. This allows us to provide stimulus without actually having to GM. For me, my knowledge of decking and especially rigging rules is really rusty, so I wouldn't feel comfortable as a GM. My knowledge of Shadowrun, however, is extensive. Say you give me a Fixer character, maybe I even make it under specific guidelines from you, and turn me loose. I'm still confined by the rules as you stated, and it was generated either by you or with your approval, but now there's basically a plot device running around to help you out. A possible idea for those you trust who aren't up to being GMs for whatever reason, but certainly capable of helping the game and world move along.
So this should provide a reasonable outline of ideas for Tisoz to draw upon, as well as to provide everyone with some insight as to what he has in mind.
Also, it is important to note that Tisoz is attempting to provide variety, not power in his game. Correct me if I'm mistaken Tisoz, but the idea behind allowing us to play 'non standard' characters is not to give us more power, but more flexibility and diversity in the world. I believe it is his intention that this be our guide in choosing our characters. So we should plan accordingly.
Additionally, remember that the game will most likely not function if we're all crazy and unique characters, so we should not take it too far. As a note of example, I believe that when Tisoz said we could have 'special' stuff, he was thinking more of giving a sniper an actual sniper rifle as opposed to a hunting rifle; not giving a street samurai delta move-by-wire 4.
Please don't feel I am trying to dictate anything to anyone. Tisoz is the GM and of course, the final authority. The above is simply a sample of some of our discussions via PM that he asked me to post as an elaboration and articulation of his world. Hope it helps.
At the request of Tisoz, I am posting a list of ideas I suggested to him via PM. It is up to him to decide to what degree he will implement the ideas, but he seems to be satisfied with them as a basic and reasonably accurate sketch. Note this is from a PM, so some ideas the general public may not understand, but the ideas are still identifiable.
In regards to keeping the game from being a mess, a few ideas.
First, advertise to other GMs the possibility of running their games under your umbrella. It may not even take a lot of work for them, simply stating that their threads are included under your overarching thread. This gives an advantage to them for recruiting other players, and allows a diversification of people in the SR world. For example, imagine this.
Your game, which we will call 'World' is the overarching thread. Whenever a character is not involved in a particular game, he may post in 'World'. This assumes that the character in question has been approved by you already. Of course a non-approved character cannot post.
When a character enters a run, he then posts to that Game, which we will designate IC 1. He will also post in the attached OOC 1. His character would then be further subject to the requirements laid down by GM A.
Now the character has four threads to check:
World IC- This covers all the things in his world NOT DIRECTLY related to his current job.
World OOC- Covers all the mechanics and out of character stuff in World IC.
IC 1- Covers all the things DIRECTLY related to his current job.
OOC 1- Covers all the mechanics and out of character stuff in IC 1.
Note that both World IC and IC 1 happen concurrently. Events in the outside world can and do affect a job.
There are a few advantages to this approach.
1. It allows other GMs to easily integrate themsleves if they choose.
2. Regardless of how many other GMs there are, it allows the players and GM(s) to separate themselves and know what is relevant to them. For example, I would know I have to check World IC and OOC, as well as IC 1 and OOC 1 (the job I am involved in). I would not check IC 2 and OOC 2, because I am not involved in this job.
3. No separate game will slow down the overall flow of the world.
4. It still prevents players from playing characters not approved by GMs. For example, if GM A decides he doesn't want shapeshifters, or wants shapeshifters made with different rules from yours, no problem. He can simply not allow any shapeshifters from World into his game, or only allow shapeshifters that have been run past him. Note this does require a degree of cooperation between GMs. Theoretically and practically, it would probably be best to set certain standards for characters in World and all subgames. If GMs are willing to agree to it, then they can play in World. If not, probably best to stay separate.
5. It provides an alternative solution for slow posters. It can be a stated assumption that if a player does not post anything to the contrary, if they have not posted for X days it will be assumed they have gone into hiding. And then they aren't out of World, they will just be out of IC 1. In game terms, they dropped out of IC 1 and are hiding, but that does not remove them from World. It also provides a quick solution for those who are responsible to post, and a convenient mechanism for them both to 'retreat' to, and announce it.
6. Provides stimulus outside of the run itself. (see below)
There's probably other advantages and disadvantages, but I'll move along so as not to bore you senseless.
Suggestions for people posting frequently and with quality posts? A few.
1. Provide stimulus and reward players who provide the game with stimulus. Most good players love to post, that's why we play. The problem is often there's not really much to respond to, especially during legwork time. Thus the benefit of number 6. The more stimuli and opportunities to respond, the more we will.
2. Require X amount of background. Reward those who provide significant hooks to work with. 20 questions answered in detail provides plenty of hooks to work with.
3. Encourage linked backgrounds. Those two guys I mentioned (two friends I'm working on coordinating backgrounds with)? We will almost certainly link our characters together, providing 3 times the opportunity for stimulus. Stimulus for just one of us will almost certainly provide all three of us, which makes your life a lot easier.
4. Reward those who take the initiative to start or accomplish personal goals. One tabletop game I was in, I was really excited, because I and this other guy were working on building a nightclub and running a racket out of it. We started this during a slow night when it was just us two. Unfortunately when the others came back, our GM wouldn't let us pursue our idea anymore. It sucked. Point being, there's no point having personal goals if you aren't going to A) pursue them, and B) be helped to pursue them. Heck just from Dragon alone and an admittedly incomplete 20 Questions you and I could probably think of at least 5, if not more, stories that could be explored, developed, and pursued. Frankly, I'd like to, but I can't in our current game because it would be at the expense of the game. But in your new game, it could happen. If I finished the 20 Questions, notably the sections on contacts and enemies (which reminds me to get back to work on it) there'd be at least 5 more possible runs.
5. One thing I would be willing to do and maybe others as well, would be to play NPC's. This allows us to provide stimulus without actually having to GM. For me, my knowledge of decking and especially rigging rules is really rusty, so I wouldn't feel comfortable as a GM. My knowledge of Shadowrun, however, is extensive. Say you give me a Fixer character, maybe I even make it under specific guidelines from you, and turn me loose. I'm still confined by the rules as you stated, and it was generated either by you or with your approval, but now there's basically a plot device running around to help you out. A possible idea for those you trust who aren't up to being GMs for whatever reason, but certainly capable of helping the game and world move along.
So this should provide a reasonable outline of ideas for Tisoz to draw upon, as well as to provide everyone with some insight as to what he has in mind.
Also, it is important to note that Tisoz is attempting to provide variety, not power in his game. Correct me if I'm mistaken Tisoz, but the idea behind allowing us to play 'non standard' characters is not to give us more power, but more flexibility and diversity in the world. I believe it is his intention that this be our guide in choosing our characters. So we should plan accordingly.
Additionally, remember that the game will most likely not function if we're all crazy and unique characters, so we should not take it too far. As a note of example, I believe that when Tisoz said we could have 'special' stuff, he was thinking more of giving a sniper an actual sniper rifle as opposed to a hunting rifle; not giving a street samurai delta move-by-wire 4.
Please don't feel I am trying to dictate anything to anyone. Tisoz is the GM and of course, the final authority. The above is simply a sample of some of our discussions via PM that he asked me to post as an elaboration and articulation of his world. Hope it helps.
Everyone please remember WinterRat1's post is pretty much a PM he sent to me with ideas. They were exactly what I was going for and were coherently stated. The post may not be as coherent because it was put up in the middle of the night. Maybe when he has more time he can edit it for general consumption.
He pretty much nailed it on everything but the power level. This he added beyond the PM and I may agree with him in the end if it is the only means to accomplish getting other GMs to cooperate. The gear part is so close the difference doesn't matter.
As it stands though, the power level I am shooting for is just above a starting character. Many GMs have you create a character, then act as though you have played it and amassed X nuyen and Y karma. I was going along with that, but adding the option of foregoing X nuyen and Y karma to play a being for which there are no canon chargen rules. I've seen interest in playing vampires, free spirits, sasquatches, critters, paracritters, highlander immortals, immortal elves, and dragons. (BtW, Dragons is where I draw the line.) I got some wilder requests I really didn't expect, but I tried to accomodate them.
I guess some or all of these type characters could be played as NPCs, because the line between PC and NPC is going to get blurry. It would also eliminate the feeling that PCs can't kill certain NPCs.
He pretty much nailed it on everything but the power level. This he added beyond the PM and I may agree with him in the end if it is the only means to accomplish getting other GMs to cooperate. The gear part is so close the difference doesn't matter.
As it stands though, the power level I am shooting for is just above a starting character. Many GMs have you create a character, then act as though you have played it and amassed X nuyen and Y karma. I was going along with that, but adding the option of foregoing X nuyen and Y karma to play a being for which there are no canon chargen rules. I've seen interest in playing vampires, free spirits, sasquatches, critters, paracritters, highlander immortals, immortal elves, and dragons. (BtW, Dragons is where I draw the line.) I got some wilder requests I really didn't expect, but I tried to accomodate them.
I guess some or all of these type characters could be played as NPCs, because the line between PC and NPC is going to get blurry. It would also eliminate the feeling that PCs can't kill certain NPCs.
This game seems better and better - I have a question though:
Under WinterRat's suggestions, would it be possible to, say, play a character in your campaign that acts as a Mr.Johnson/Fixer for instigating runs which the player of that character would then GM in a separate thread?
For instance, if I were to play a fixer with a personal vendetta arranging runs to pursue that vendetta as a goal. This PC could hire other PCs from the main group for runs, while pursuing his personal aspect of those runs in the 'World' thread. It'd need some correlating between the GMs of course, and it very much blurs the line PC/NPC at times, but how does it sound?
Under WinterRat's suggestions, would it be possible to, say, play a character in your campaign that acts as a Mr.Johnson/Fixer for instigating runs which the player of that character would then GM in a separate thread?
For instance, if I were to play a fixer with a personal vendetta arranging runs to pursue that vendetta as a goal. This PC could hire other PCs from the main group for runs, while pursuing his personal aspect of those runs in the 'World' thread. It'd need some correlating between the GMs of course, and it very much blurs the line PC/NPC at times, but how does it sound?
snowRaven - That was exactly the type of character I was thinking of making as well. I may not have the time I would like to dedicate to this game, but as a fixer I would be able to set up runs and act as a catalyst for games, while not having quite as high of a post count.
Slipshade
Slipshade
| QUOTE (snowRaven) |
| This game seems better and better - I have a question though: Under WinterRat's suggestions, would it be possible to, say, play a character in your campaign that acts as a Mr.Johnson/Fixer for instigating runs which the player of that character would then GM in a separate thread? |
I do not see why not. I didn't know if there would be interest in the GM duties, but you are right on track with one of the aspects of the game I was shooting for.
| QUOTE |
For instance, if I were to play a fixer with a personal vendetta arranging runs to pursue that vendetta as a goal. This PC could hire other PCs from the main group for runs, while pursuing his personal aspect of those runs in the 'World' thread. It'd need some correlating between the GMs of course, and it very much blurs the line PC/NPC at times, but how does it sound? |
So your character is an NPC in a game you GM, while being a PC in World, subject to conflict with things that may oppose his goals? Yes. I can even see integrating the opposition into the game you GM. Say you want to paint Seattle Red. Player X wants to paint it Black. You each recruit teams and try carrying out your plan. Player Y likes Seattle the color it is.
The first problem I see is the GM giving up some of his godlike control. Getting past that, there is some logistical problems of coordinating all the players and seperating IC and OoC knowledge. I know everyone will try to roleplay well, but if the 'enemy' posted his plans right before you post, it's hard to keep the element of surprise.
[ Spoiler ]
I was afraid I would be NPCing the majority of the opposition, and maybe even some of the hired help. So I really like the idea of others getting involved.
Due to interest expressed in this thread and to me by PM and thanks to the help offered by WinterRat1, the nature of this game is changing slightly. Hopefully to a bigger, better, badder version. WinterRat1 is officially a co-GM in the planned Universe his is putting so much work and thought into developing. It would be unfair to limit him to anything less. We will need help in further creating and GMing this shadowrun gaming environment. I am sure there are problems others foresee that we may have overlooked, as well as solutions that somehow escaped our godlike powers.
The special characters are still welcome and I will GM a game for them. That remains the same.
Running Over the Edge: IC
Running Over the Edge: OoC
The special characters are still welcome and I will GM a game for them. That remains the same.
Running Over the Edge: IC
Running Over the Edge: OoC
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