This contradicts what WhiskyMak posted.

To rephrase my question in a way that doesn't so easily lead to answers that aren't the one I want:

Can a character with a skill group that has not been broken take specializations in one or more of the skill group's component skills?

Exactly.

Technically, no.

Skillgroups can't have specialisations - and skillgroups can only be broken by advancing a skill of the skillgroup with karma.

So, by the RAW, you would have to advance a skill before you can take specialisations - once your skillgrou reaches 6, and you already have Aptitude for another skill, you are out of luck.

Ah, so you are saying according to the rules, I can't buy a skill group during character generation, and then with my first 10 karma or so buy a specialization during character advancement after a few sessions?

No.

That RAW say that, advancing a skill of the skillgroup breaks that skillgroup, making it cease to exist while the individual skills now are being trated normally - which now allows the purchase of specialisations.

So, by RAW, the only way to go from Skillgroup to Specialisation is advancing a Skill first.

Ah. So the following p 264

"Buying Specializations
Characters may also acquire a specialization to an existing
Active Skill or Knowledge Skill that they currently possess.
(You cannot specialize on a new skill you’re currently
learning.) Acquiring a Specialization costs 2 Karma. A character
may only know one specialization per skill, and specializations
may not be applied to skill groups.
A character that wants to change her specialization in a
particular skill may do so at the gamemaster’s discretion. In
this case, the character pays 2 Karma to learn the new specialization
and immediately loses the old one."

Which is the only text regarding buying a specialization during Character Improvement, is somehow different from improving existing skills.

You are claiming that if I bought a skill group during character generation, that during Character Improvement I can improve an exiistng skill in a skill group, thus breaking the skill group. Yet I cannot simply buy a specialization, which would also break up the skill group.

I must in fact, Improve my skill, and then buy the specialization?

I note that in both Improving Existing Skills, and in Buying specializations, that are no statements that prohibit the use of either option for Character Improvement based on the skills being originally in a Skill Group bought during character generation.

You may point to "..and specializations may not be applied to skill groups" which I interpret to mean that you cannot buy a specialization for the entire group. versus buying a specialization for a particular skill within a group.

Basically I am not sure how you claim I can Improve a skill, but not Buy a specialization.

The technicals reason is that 'breaking skill groups' is only defined for advancing skills - and nothing else.

But there's no explicit prohibition from doing so?

From doing what?
Buying specialisations for skillgroups? There is.

The rationale 'If it's not forbidden, it's allowed' is nice and all, but if 'it' is defined elsewhere in a different way, applying it is not really allowed.

Let's just assume you meant me.

Actually, that'S not what the rules are saying.
The just say you can't add specialisation at all to skillgroups.
And 'breaking skillgroups' is only defined for advancing skills with karma.

Specialisations add bonus dice to tests when they apply - they are not skill levels... neither real nor augmented.

Unfortunately, that's not it... at all.

As we can see, the rule that you can break Skillgroups by advancing a single Skill from it with Karma opened The Can.
Now The Worms are everywhere and people are reasoning whether you could break up Skillgroups at chargen and/or by getting Specializations... and what happens if you have a Reflex Recoder implant for a Skillgroup and you break it.

I'm seriously thinking about removing that rule in my games... you have a choice at chargen/purchase - and you stick with it.

As long as your GM allows it, your character can defy gravity and happily glide upon the winds.

And if the GM doesn't allow it you can't do anything.

..boy, there are so many proverbs with 'smell'...

Heresy! Not every RAW rule has to make perfect sense. The RAW just is. A GM that can expand beyond what the book tells him to do is less fun to play with than one who follows the book letter for letter.

The maximum modified rating for a skill is 10 with the aptitude quality (pg. 63, under skill ratings), so the maximum increased ability would be 3, not 4.

The attunement metamagic gives a bonus equal to half of the intiate's grade (which is still damn good).

Overall, big dice pools are not as useful in SR4 as they are in SR3. They are nice to have, but with a TN of 5, and all of the situational modifiers that can apply to ranged combat, your example adept will still miss occasionally. Not that unbalancing, all things considered (unless the GM is running a low-powered campaign).



As far as skill groups and the RAW, I agree with Rotbert, but would use the FAQ (which I don't always agree with) if I ran a game. I wouldn't allow skill groups to be split up at char-gen, but I would allow characters to break them up by specializing in one of the skills.

I certainly wouldn't disallow skill groups ever being split up. Not only is that unrealistic (why shouldn't someone skilled in all firearms be able to get better with only pistols?), but it gimps skill groups by forever denying them those extra two dice from specialization, which can make a big difference.