OK it's that time in my game where the runners wants to get their cyber installed. Ok, I got their contacts and their stuff, but what about the surgery? How long does it take to implant wired reflexes lvl 2 compared to a datajack? Are we talking hours, days, weeks?

Another matter that confuses me: How obvious is cyberware? Ok, obvious cybernetic limbs is easy, but what about wired reflexes, dermal armor, muscle replacement..? I'm guessing cybereyes/ears and such is impossible to spot without looking at the them through a magn. glass.

Oh, and how hard is it to upgrade existing cyberware? I've made it alot easier than to install new cyber so far, to avoid everyone saving up until they can afford the best rather than use what they can and upgrade later.

That really depends, implantation is mostly done via nanotech IMO, so we are probably talkin hours possibly plus one or two days of adjustments and if required (e.g. limbs) a few weeks of training in usage.

MM of SR3 had some good advices on how obvious cyberware is.
Eyes come as cybernetic package or retina mod., the first one is quite obvious (look me in the eyes baby), while the second option requires medical examination.
Dermal plating is probably best identified by touch.
etc etc....

I deal with this in two parts. First, I assume that the cost of implantation surgery is included in the cost of the cyberware. Second, I just assume that enough damage is done in surgery to fill the recipient's physical and stun condition monitors, then use the normal healing rules for recovery time.

Hello! I have already posted somewhere my own take of this topic, but I suppose you'd find it too gritty and too costly for the game you are playing.

Nevertheless, I usually assume that cyberware surgery inflicts one box of damage for each .1 of essence cost. Then I calculate healing costs to set the recovery/relearning time after the intervention. In our game the house rules are that the base time for healing damage is (boxes) days, because we like shadowrunners lying in their beds for longer.

And of course you do not explode in a fine red mist if you install wired reflexes, people just don't die in elective surgery in 2070, it just takes more time-

Regarding how obvious or not cyberware is, it just depends on the different pieces. Wired Reflexes are obvious if on all the time, cybereyes can be obvious or not, depending on tastes, but will not withstand close eye examination, dermal plating is obvious -says so in the RAW- smuggler compartments are not, cyberguns have their own perception rolls, cyberears are usually unnoticed, unless you have your auricles replaced for something funkier, etc, etc. Common sense and making the calls explicit to everyone beforehand goes a long way towards coherence and gaming satisfaction.

Oh, and the upgrades are working just fine, I have players pay for the difference in costs plus hospitalization and that's it. Runners are getting upgrades quite frequently, but then, I also have Johnsons pay more than the suggested amounts for runs. My gaming group clocks around 75 karma average and charge something around 3500-5000 nuyen per run, usually one or two runs a month, plus medium lifestyles. They started low, and worked for a third of the amount, but now they're getting professional.


Hope my two contribute something useful

Cheers,

Max

BTW: how's da barren story going?

I would say that it depends on the year. Waaay back in the dark ages of the first edition, the "original" trilogy of novels pretty much started with the protaganist (Samual "Twist" Verner) getting a Datajack installed. The implication I got was that it was a routine operation, but it did put him out for a while. Of course this was 2050, two decades later in 2070 one could argue that it would be easier, but then again there was a second information crash that wiped out a lot of tech and knowledge and who knows what was lost. This is one of the reasons why I think things haven't changed *quite* as much in 20 years as they would have in real life. For example, given the development of Laser Technology in 2050, and things being shrunk down to pistols by 2E/3E (if I remember correctly) I'd imagine by 2070 "hard ammo" weapons would be more or less obselete as would ballistic body armor had things progressed normally.

At any rate, I'd have to dig, but I seem to remember reading rules for cybersurgery that were quite detailed. It might have been in "Man & Machine" (which is buried somewhere) I'll have to see if I can find it. I think 4E on it's own has kind of glossed over it, so I'd pretty much just go with whatever the plot demands. As you want your PCs out adventuring I wouldn't keep them out of comission too long.

Of course also understand that most SINLESS PCs might be getting top of the line implants, BUT in many cases they are using underground clinics/contacts. This means that state of of the art medical treatment is probably not being used, and there are issues about where they stay since a Street Doc's "clinic" might not be the most secure place in the world. Not to mention the fact that the cyberware a PC is buying might have been used by someone else first (ie cyber snatched from someone else).

It might not be out of hand to have the PC walking around with some injury boxes after surgery, looking for someplace to recover, and then have something happen. However unless the PC is really dumb he is probably not going to be undertaking Shadowruns/Mercenary Work until he fully recovers.

>>>----Therumancer--->

As for LASER weaponry, they actually make for very ineffectual weapons against soft targets. They are easily dissipated by smoke and reflective surfaces, they cauterize as they penetrate, and they don't cause any secondary fragmentation within the target. A high powered LASER (with a suitable generator) might make for an effective vehicle stopper however. Or at the very least a good sniper weapon.

My understanding is that Laser Weapons basically ignore all armor. It is true that they are not great against vehicles, but then again they are still in the catagory of "small arms" for the most part and are intended for use on infantry.

Had there not been an information crash I'd imagine they would have gotten even smaller and more powerful over the years and replaced pistols, SMGs, etc.. granted grenades and rockets would still be the anti-vehicle weapon of choice.

In my experience it seems that most of the time when players are fighting vehicles they do it with vehicles of their own. While hypothetically possible I can only think of a handfull of times where the party has actually tried to fight a substantial armored vehicle on foot.

This has little to do with Cyberware however, other than to make the point that it's relatively easy to defend technological stagnation (at the moment) in SR and used older formulas for installation/recovery if you find them.

>>>----Therumancer--->