By the way the book is organized Perception is listed in the Active skills area.

Reflex recorders can be used with any Active or Physical skills.

For me right now I consider it an Active skill but can not be used with Reflex Recorders.

How would you attach said recorders to your eyes or ears for visual or audio perception? With cyber replacements/enhancements you get the Rating bonus to your perception skill anyways. I do not even believe this could work.

i suppose you could argue that the reflex recorder makes sure you always check your blind spots, turn your head often to take advantage of both ears, and so on.

Definatly a wierd tick though and you would get a penalty for trying to look normal...

it's not weird at all. you just look around more than someone with a low Perception skill does. nor is it a tic--you don't take penalties to getting a drink if you have a Pistols reflex recorder installed, after all.

It seems a bit weird, but apparently the game designers feel that a reflex recorder can aid in skills such as perception, navigation, shadowing, and tracking. I say this because there has already been an erratta clarifying it, and if they wanted to exclude those skills, they could have phrased it like they did for enhanced articulation (where they clarified that the bonus was to Physical skills that are linked to Physical attributes).

On the other hand, it still may very well be changed in the next erratta, since the current erratta still hasn't fixed everything (for example, the archetypes with the Uncouth quality still aren't paying double for social skills like they should be doing, and the face still has a Mitsubishi Nightsky despite the price being raised to where he couldn't afford it any longer).

Until then, a reflex recorder adding to Perception is part of the RAW. Just be aware that a lot of GMs might house rule it as not working for physical skills not linked to a physical attribute (I probably would, myself).

I don't think it's a matter of looking around more often or checking things out more frequently. Reflex recorders pretty much give you a great deal of muscle memory and/or pattern recognition.

So it's not that the person with the RR for Perceptions necessarily looks around more often, it's just that when he does look around he gets a much better idea of what's actually going on due to the expertise granted by the reflex recorder.

That's how I see it, anyway.

aren't launch weapons linked to a mental attribute? they are in 3rd, not sure if that changed in 4th.

In SR4, they have been compressed into the heavy weapons skill, which is Agility-based. Gunnery, which is now in vehicle active skills, is also Agility-based.

ah. still, i'm pretty sure electronics and biotech are mental-based. you'll only be passable at either without a sure, steady hand.

Riddle me this.

Would something one can do deliberately be an active skill?

Can one deliberately pay more attention to his or her surroundings?

perception being an active skills is beyond questioning. active skills are the group of skills that are not knowledge skills. what you're looking for is combat and physical skills, which is a much more narrow group of skills.

anyways, i don't see why muscle memory couldn't aid in your ability to perceive things. it could provide your eyes with better autofocus, it could cause you to move in ways that let you hear sounds in all directions better, it could cause you to breathe more quietly so that you don't drown out other nearby sounds, and so forth.

I agree with mfb, StealthBanana and Jaid. The actions necessary to keep alert and on watch become more instinctive and don't have to be as much under conscious control.

The only way reflex recorders would not help is if the Active Skill did not involve movement. How is it possible to 'keep an eye out' without moving?

...I agree with nathanross. Perception should not even be a skill, but an attribute test as it was in past editions.

But what about all those courses at police academies that train one to better perceive what's going on around them? Wouldn't that imply that Perception is a skill?

oooh, better autofocus, that's a good one, Jaid.

i strongly, strongly disagree about Perception being relegated back to an attribute test. you very much can train yourself--or be trained by others--to be more aware of your surroundings, to perform more effective searches, and so on. and it's relatively easily done, which implies a lower karma cost than is involved in raising an attribute.

I believe that Perception is a skill, that can be trained up.

I am having problems seeing how muscle memory could help you with it, but could live with Jaid's better autofocus and such. I would probably make the PC work to be able to use the reflex recorder properly.

That, and I would probably have a slew of innocent details that they would notice, mixed in with the very few important clues (if I am feeling ornery that day).

I would say that it is both an active skill and a passive skill. You can actively look for something or it might come to your attention.
It defintiely should not be an attribute only test, thugh I thnk that many pc's overdo it since there are plenty of tech means for making yourself more perceptive.
I defintely would not allow the reflex recorder thang with this skill however, since perception involves different senses (sight, hearing, tactile etc.)
BTW visual perception has little to do with muscle movement/ focusing in the eyes and hearing has very little to do with moving the head (except for spatial recognition.) Both those senses are processes more in the brain than from muscle action.

My feeling is that perception is a skill.

Take the example of driving down the road.

When you are driving you see street signs, clouds, bumperstickers, other cars etc... but your mind filters out all of the non-important information. Now you can focus on registering this information. Like listening to the radio, talking to a friend, reading a street sign. But it can be at the cost of your ability to drive the car safely. In this case you see what is around you but just dont register it. So a recorder would not help you much.

To play devils advocate...

If you drive alot you gain that built in response to things around you. The muscle memory. You might not register that your about to be in a car crash but you move out of the way just in time do to your reaction to the situation.

So perhaps the best way to look at this is to say that if you include a recorder, then only simple actions can be taken during the first initiative pass..

Just a thought.

Perception should NOT benefit from the Reflex Recorder. The reason is abundantly clear in the description of the bioware:

My group allows it because the RAW says to, and it is neither overpowered or unduly disruptive to the game as a whole to allow it.