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Blue_fish
Last night, I ran my second *ever* session of Shadowrun with my group. I've got a great group, with a veteren player who helps out the newer players, and helps me keep everyone in check. We ran the first of the official missions last night, and I thought that things went pretty smoothly.

The problem is the street sam. She's a very nice girl, but wasn't thrilled about the mission last night. I know that there wasn't a lot of combat in that specific run, and I told her that. She wasn't happy that she didn't have a lot to do, because so many of her skills are combat ones. I even put in some ghouls for them to fight, but the technomancer decided to run them over. Multiple times. So he killed that problem pretty quickly, and then proceeded to boss her around for the rest of the session, as her character kept failing composure checks. And he pretty much trashed her van, but she strong-armed him into paying for it.

So my question is this: Do I throw more combat at her? I've never played a street sam, so i'm not entirely sure if she just wants to blow everything up, or what? She did a very good job of roleplaying, considering it was her second session. What kind of challenges should I give her so that she's happy? I've played every other class that's on the team, so I know what to give them, but she's just a puzzle to me. She has an awesome character background and did a nice job of writing her up, but I'm not sure what to do with her. Any suggestions?
psychophipps
Street Sammies are easy to please, depending on the character and player. Look her sheet over and she'll basically give you a pretty good idea of what she wants. If she took a lot of Perception then combine it with some other skill and tell her to roll a few times a session to see an ambush. Higher melee than ranged? Give her stuff to slap around. Ranged gawd? Ba-da-boom, ba-da-bing. Heavy weapons? Let her light fires and blow stuff up.
And there is no reason at all to not throw extra ghouls/ninjas/corpsec in unless they're getting their asses handed to them. The technomancer runs over the baddies? No worries, there's always more where they came from. "Great job! You run over the ghouls but now everyone needs to make a Perception checks. Ok, the sammie notices another group of them coming from another alleyway. Roll initiative!"
If the technomancer tries to hog the action again, just explain that they have ghoul bits all over their windshield and mirrors (or cameras if rigged) and they can't see any of the new enemies. They *can* get directed to create a barrier by other players as these ghouls seem...upset...and are running pretty fast at his comrades.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
Mooseh
This happened to me when I started out, I was a inexperienced player playing a sammy and I was with more experienced gamers who kept hogging all the action. It was no fault of the GM more the fault of the other players stealing all the action. A couple of sessions later though I had a better understanding and was more involved and I didn't feel like a spare wheel.
Shadow
Was the technomancer in full VR rigging the van like a drone? Cause there is just no way he should have gone first over a Sam.

Also, toss the composure checks out the window when dealing with other PC's. That is soly a mechanic for dealing with NPC's. When you are dealing with other PC's you make the decision. If he is treating her like dirt let her decide how she responds. It could mean shooting him in the leg.
Kyoto Kid
...sounds like maybe a bit of OOC discussion may be needed if the player of the Techno keeps stealing the thunder and bullying your other player around like he did. I have dealt with things like this in the past both as a player and GM & it can occasionally lead to bad blood (not very fun & after all, we are playing the game, to have fun, right?).

I'm not one for putting the "obligatory fight scene" in when it's really isn't called for, but as psychophipps mentioned, take a look over of her character sheet to see what else the character can do. Does she have good stealth skills? if so then have her do a bit or recon. Are there any other non combat skills she may have? Work with those. Does she have good contacts? Have her get more involved in the legwork phase.

Above all, If one character is hogging all the attention (which takes away from the other characters as well) then going OOC and pulling him aside as I mentioned above may be part of the solution.
nathanross
That TM sounds like he could be real trouble for your group. Munching and min-maxing are all fine and good, but when people have to use the game to get attention and boss around other people's characters, they just have to go, no one has fun then.

About combat, if they are still new to the game, be sure and throw leg-work out the window (unless you have a face, in which case that is their time to shine), as it gets long and boring for someone you are trying to snag with SR. Combat only characters will be bored most of the time unless the whole game is spent in combat. Try to convince her to take other skills that are usefull.

Also, this sammy has Synaptic 2 right? How is a TM getting the drop on anything or even bullying her around?
ElFenrir
Ive ran into situations like this. Sometimes, a run actually really DOES go smoothly enough for no combat to take place. In that case, the combat characters, well, have a weakness. Sometimes characters can't always do what they are good at, hence splitting up skills. A Face might get tired of hiding on a big ol' bang-bang demolition trash the place job, while a Sam might get bored on a job where it's great to be quiet.

That being said, this is the beauty of different jobs. There is something to please everyone.

That being said, if the character wants to 'blow everything up' as you said, there might be a little discussion how sometimes its best NOT to blow everything up. At the same time, make sure you create a few jobs that involve a room of delicate equipment that should not exist and grenades. grinbig.gif
Blue_fish
Thanks guys smile.gif

The TM pretty much just told her to get out of the drivers seat, and she did. It was hilarious when he decided to stop quickly (he was in the passangers seat, she was trying to climb into the back seat without getting out of the car) and sent her, the troll, flying into the back of the van. Needless to say, the dwarf she landed on was not very happy about it.

Fortunately, all of my players are really good friends, and the sam and I were discussing some more rp opprotunities for her to show off her lovely former-ballet dancer/snooty rich girl who goblinized personality. And the technomancer has been wacked on the nose with a newspaper, so hopefully he will behave himself.
Kyoto Kid
...one of the worst "fish out of water" situations I dealt with was a segment from Wake of the Comet. This was the mission up in the north country to retrieve a downed satellite. Neither of my characters (Violet - a Decker and Markova, An ex cosmonaut), had any appropriate social skills to deal the the "back to earther" elves. As a matter of fact Violet, just by the nature of her "profession" was viewed as an insult to them. As it ended up, the mission was a complete failure.

In this case the GM should have accommodated the team a bit more (the other player also had characters that had no negotiation skills) or just not ran that particular mission.
silentmaster101
usually the threat of a point blank full auto from an ares alpha is enough to keep people from bossing my sammy around, seeing as he has shot people before.
Cheops
QUOTE (Mooseh)
This happened to me when I started out, I was a inexperienced player playing a sammy and I was with more experienced gamers who kept hogging all the action. It was no fault of the GM more the fault of the other players stealing all the action. A couple of sessions later though I had a better understanding and was more involved and I didn't feel like a spare wheel.

That seems to be a common experience when starting SR. I didn't really understand what was going on my first few sessions either. Takes time to figure out exactly how you fit into a team, especially a veteran one that knows each other well.
Sterling
The problem that exists is that the Sammy only excels at combat, and with the world gone wireless, pissing of a Technomancer isn't a wise move. I'd usually take a smoke break and talk to the Technomancer's player about the situation. I'd also find out what the party is lacking (face skills, important contacts, a really good fixer hookup, whatever) and encourage the Sammy to move in that direction. Hell, contact accrual can be done ICly, which makes her feel more useful.

What you need to do is provide a situation where the Technomancer is forced to take a back seat and the Sammy is required to step up for the good of the party. And there are caster ghouls, one good ram spell shuts up the most cocky rigger or Technomancer.

What would let the Sammy shine? Combat... with a lot of somethings, perhaps... small, but dangerous... no tech at all... and so many that only raw combat will do... hmm...
Kyoto Kid
...one thing our group does is after the very first run, to allow players with new characters a one time re-engineering (kind of like a "test drive"). This actually works pretty well. Once the changes are made, that is it and the player has to live with them.
Whipstitch
I've found that when dealing with samurai, things seem to work best when erring on the side of the character being a hardened individual when making composure checks. Samurai generally aren't known for their willpower and charisma pools, and are as likely (if not moreso) to fail checks as anyone, which isn't really a problem unless you're making them make checks for things like dead bodies, gunfire and violence, which pretty much happens to be their stock and trade. Unless a Samurai gets hit with a fear spell or sees something really nasty and unnatural, like a free Abomination spirit going on a rampage, I'd just embarras the samurai rather than make them freeze up and lose actions. A young, inexperienced samurai might piss himself in the face of incoming fire, but he'll probably still return fire, even if he is squealing like a scared little girl at the time.
Demon_Bob
Just because the world is wireless does not mean that she has to be.

Pissing off someone who has no qualms about killing is not very bright either.

Combat can happen in area where Vehicles and Comabt Drones are unable to go. Can't see how a Technomancer, no matter how good can disable all the cameras. Several cameras going out alerts security in a big way. Editing an outgoing feed from 3+ cameras to not include drones? Good luck.
kzt
QUOTE (Sterling)
The problem that exists is that the Sammy only excels at combat, and with the world gone wireless, pissing of a Technomancer isn't a wise move.

I'd suggest not using deadly force unless you plan on killing someone. Then just do it. Don't threaten them, don't insult them, just kill them. "Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (kzt)
QUOTE (Sterling @ May 16 2007, 09:23 AM)
The problem that exists is that the Sammy only excels at combat, and with the world gone wireless, pissing of a Technomancer isn't a wise move.

I'd suggest not using deadly force unless you plan on killing someone. Then just do it. Don't threaten them, don't insult them, just kill them. "Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

biggrin.gif Thanks for the new tagline.
sunnyside
People have been hinting at this, but my strong advice to a new GM is to make sure that every character can do something in each phase of a run.

A pure combat character is generally bad news for everybody. First they tend to get board when there isn't any "action". Second they have a bad tendency to slowly have their IQ drop so that they can provoke more action by doing stupid stuff. I think a fair number of "I can't believe my players did something that stupid" is really some combat character getting board and deciding to trash everyone elses plans to the group has to fight.

But I also find it's bad to have chars who can't fight at all. Because if you run a high combat adventure they may start getting board.

So I suggest.

-Each char be competent in combat
-Each char be competent at some legworkish skill
-Each char have contacts
-Each char have some useful active but non combat skills (like maybe lockingpicking/maglockpicking, bluffy social skills, climbing, parachuting etc.)
-Each char have a respectable ability to infiltrate.

Also I advise getting the team hooked up with well encrypted communications most of the time, with the option to listen in on what other chars are hearing, maybe seeing. Pretty easy to do in 4th ed. But it means that if one char is say, in position on a roof, they can still be a part of the action for the char trying to fast talk a guard.

Generally you just want to minimize the time any char spends totally board, and maximise the flexibility the group has so you can do different types of missions without worrying if you have enough combat or have enough for the face in each mission.
ElFenrir
Sunnyside has it nailed i think. Each character doesnt have to be sam, hacker, face and driver all wrapped up into one-but it wouldn't hurt the Face or Hacker to have some sort of firearm or melee skill, or the Sam to have some data searching or stealth, and a couple of social skills. I never understood how characters get by with NO social skills. Everyone, IMO, who isn't some hermit or completely mannerless street thug should have SOME sort of competence in Etiquette and maybe even Negotiations; i think any hired folks should be able to negotiate a contract. And IMO, Stealth is almost necessary for any runner, unless they ONLY take really loud jobs that involve them blowing stuff up every time...or end up blowing stuff up every time, which will make them lose work REAL quick.

Yes, this means your Face might not be able to roll 18 dice for every Social skill or your Sam to roll 16 dice for every combat skill, but it adds a nice well roundedness to the group, and gives them something to do otherwise outside of their speciality. What if something happens to the Sam? the rest of the group might be SOL if they dont have an array of skills. Same thing goes with the other characters.

Since you said that some of these players are new, show them the ropes a bit. It's easy for a new character to overspend in certain areas. (For the example of a Troll, they get a big Strength bonus, which a new player might see as ''meant to be jacked through the roof', but it might be better off if some of those points go to Charisma and/or Logic instead; making them still very effective but much more well rounded.)

As for the Technomancer, they do need a little talking to i think, no one should ruin the fun of other characters. If the Technomancer had acted to stop the Sammy from shooting for stealth reasons, AND did it in a respectful manner, thats one thing...but they sound like a bully.
Moon-Hawk
I agree. For my last game one player said, "I want to be the street sam!" And I said, "Great, make sure you have something to do during non-violent times." So he did. Problem solved.

If the problem is that the player in question doesn't actually want to have anything to do with non-violent times, then we're back to the classic problem of there being a disconnect between what people are looking for in the game.
Dayhawk
One thing I do is try and make sure everyone gets as much equal GM time as possible.

If the game has alot of combat in it, then when the party is not in combat, I try and make sure those who are not combat based take center stage.

------------

The first thing I do with every player when they make their character is try and figure out what their motivation is. What does the player want this character to become.

I mean in terms of game world. Not the number crunching stuff.

The brief description of her character sounds great. Perhaps you can talk to her about developing the inner quest. Her character coming to grips that she is no longer the beauty she was on the outside, but instead has an inner beauty. Let her angst a bit.

My point is that you can help her get more out of the game by helping her express her roleplaying, rather then relying on her rollplaying.

Just because she can fight doesn't mean she must be fighting for her character to get her time at the center stage.
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