After all the mage could do so if they wanted to, and spirits do have edge.

Plus, generally speaking, spirits don't want to be summoned. They'll at least get forced to do something they otherwise wouldn't have wanted too. At the worst they could get bound for eternity guarding something, or who knows what.

This could also be an excuse to get shamen to actually follow that whole bit where shamen often agree to do something for the spirit they summoned (betcha forgot all about that huh? see p179 main book). Either they agree to something the gamemaster specifies as being desired by the spirit(and a reasonable pain for the player) or the spirit uses edge on the summoning test.

For elementalists maybe mages either have to offer their "servants" payment in the form of ritual materials like in previous editions or the elementals use their edge.

I think that would add some flavor to the process, increase the variety of forces that spirits are summoned in, and maybe tone things down a bit.

The way I run it, Spirits use Edge when;

The Summoner is guilty of abusing Spirits according to his Tradition or in his own mind. (I subscribe to the theory that Spirits really are nothing more then reflections of the Mage's own psych given life through mana.)

The Summoner, somone who the Summoner spends time with, or someone who is merely present at the scene has a Spirit Bane against the type of Spirit that is being summoned.

If the Summoner has ill intentions towards the Spirit while summoning it.

If the Summoner is trying to 'over-summon' a Spirit higher then his/her Magic.

If the Summoner has a broken Gesa.

ect, ect...

So basically I have Spirits use Edge whenever it feels right for them to do so, and the Higher Force the more likely the Spirit is to do so...

I keep the default as no use of edge, and use edge to reward or punish characters appropriately. If a character abuses a spirit or is generally antithetical to the spirits own desires (e.g. summoning a forest spirit to help you when you've been busy burning down the woods), then a spirit will certainly use edge to resist the summoning or binding. It should be noted that if a player isn't expecting it, edge use can have a large impact on the results. Especially as it's the more powerful spirits that are likely to use it.

But conversely, I sometimes reward the players with unasked for good use of edge. This will normally only happen if the player has been particularly generous or in tune with the spirit, but the best example I had was of a Beast spirit that was summoned and told to kill some guards. It was force 5, so I figured it was high enough that it would display some unique personality traits and as a beast spirit, I figured it was so blood-thirsty that after having killed the guards, it continued to rampage through the corp's facility for most of the rest of the session leaving devastation in its wake. I don't remember but I think it burnt some edge in the initial attack. I just decided that the spirit was really into it.

So I do use edge with spirits. The difference is that from the sound of it, you want to make edge use a routine part of spirit summoning and I wouldn't do that. I think the game is quite well balanced and I don't want to pile extra penalties on the players. But I keep it in reserve as a way of punishing or rewarding the character when needed. It's a good way of encouraging some thought about what they're doing on the part of the player.

Just beware of adding it in to a resistance roll when a player isn't expecting it snf calls up a Force 7 Fire Elemental.

you know, i can honestly say that i can't imagine all that many situations where someone wants a force 7 fire spirit(specifically a fire spirit, not just any spirit) for something that the fire spirit would disapprove of

Would a spririt use edge on a banishing test?

Not unless they really like the summoner or are doing a task they enjoy. Why would a spirit want to stop someone from sending it home?


But both positive and negative uses of Edge by spirits should be comparatively rare, especially during summoning, where it would be piling far too much of a penalty on the player.

I usually have the spirit spend Edge if the caster glitches the summoning roll. Other times, too, but definitely with the glitch.

I also liked the idea that higher level elementals would be more likely to use it. It means that the sort of elementals security guards actually can shoot are more than just a bit easier to cast than the unstoppable spirit of doom the most characters cast as standard.

Again, having spirits resist using Edge as a standard tactic is unfairly gimping conjurers. And this is especially true for high Force spirits, who are difficult enough to conjure without them doubling and exploding their resistance dice. Which will also make Drain incapacitating for all but the weakest of spirits.

Use of Edge by spirits should be reserved for cases of abuse, to discourage it.


I also dislike the idea of a mage having to offer up something to a spirit conjured on the fly - that blurs the line between summoning, which is supposed to be quick and straightforward, and binding, which is where you have the ritual materials. Shamans, on the other hand, will often have to do little services for their spirits, as per the RAW.

Usually not but I can see it occasionally.

If the caster constantly abuses spirts. (mentioned above) Binds them, uses the for spell drain, is unpolite, overbearing and demanding, just a general pest.

However, if the caster if friendly, does minor favors for services, and other fun stuff for the spirit maybe it doesn't resist.

Air Spirit, "Oh man! It is that guy again!"
Fire Spirit, "What guy? The annoying one?"
Air Spirit, "Ya! Always asks me to create updrafts under dresses."
Fire Spirit, -Blank unbelieving stare-
Air spirit, "I'm not going this time, not on poker night!" (Uses Edge)
Fire Spirit, "Gotta see this to believe it. I'll go instead."

rofl that'd actually be funny in some cases.

Roll a critical glitch and accidently conjure an insect spirit or a toxic spirit the mage is completely unprepared for(like summoning a radiation/fire spirit and the mage has no protective gear).

Roll a regular glitch and maybe the spirit shows up a little irate.

It might be a little D&D bleed-over, but I think that spirits might want to do things that relates to them. IE A fire spirit might want to burn things and not really care what it is.

Street Magic has a section on Spirits and Edge.

Bye
Thanee

Here'a a situation where a spirit would BURN a point of edge to frag its summoner:

A rookie mage (right out of character creation) with Magic 6 summons a Force 12 spirit and burns a point of edge to get a critical success. Catches the spirit off guard with that one.

Then the mage attempts to Bind the spirit. (Maybe even expecting to burn another point of Edge to get another critical success).

[Yes, it may seem extreme to burn two points of Edge, but I bet some have thought of it to get a fragging big spirit bound to them.]