Okay, so we all know that spirits are pretty darn invulnerable, as a measly force 5 Water spirit has 10 armor (hardended) and someone would either need to blow past it's armor with a mundane weapon to hurt it (and there is some speculation on that) or cast a spell, or hit it with an elemental damage (WP grenade, shock gloves, Hydro cannon)
But on the reverse end, how easy is it for a spirit to hurt someone?
A force 5 water spirit, from what I can tell, fallows all the normal rules of combat (including attacks) and has a measly 5 Str. Meaning, what it does a base 3 Stun Damage (Attacking 'unarmed' which is it's only attack skill.) That' s pathetic in the world of shadowrun, and I can't seem to find a way that these guys would be more than a minor annoyance in a fight.
Full Version: More questions about Spirits in Combat
Look over Energy Aura, Engulf, and Elemental Attack. These are common spirit powers, and there are others that aren't coming to mind that can help alot too.
Absolutely second what Nocturne just said. Especially with regard to the Engulf power which is very effective in my experience.
However, it's worth noting that a powerful spirit is helpful merely in terms of drawing fire as well. Every guard that's unloading his gun at the terrifying 8' being of fire, is a guard that isn't shooting at you.
Main thing to say though, is that I would not describe a Force 5 spirit as "measely." Typical spirits used by my players are Force 4's! It might seem weak but they get good tactical use out of something that can shrug off a lot of small rounds, appear anywhere (including behind the enemy) and can engulf most humans. And even a Force 1 Air Elemental can zip along with grenades to position them perfectly at great speed. With Force 1, they also get enough services that they can use this tactic until Lofwyr retires.
You typically get a lot more services out of a Force 4 than you do a Force 6+ and as you've just spent 2,000
on it, you want to get as many services for your money as possible.
Of course, the magician does like to keep a Force 7 Fire Elemental bound and ready for Plan B.
However, it's worth noting that a powerful spirit is helpful merely in terms of drawing fire as well. Every guard that's unloading his gun at the terrifying 8' being of fire, is a guard that isn't shooting at you.
Main thing to say though, is that I would not describe a Force 5 spirit as "measely." Typical spirits used by my players are Force 4's! It might seem weak but they get good tactical use out of something that can shrug off a lot of small rounds, appear anywhere (including behind the enemy) and can engulf most humans. And even a Force 1 Air Elemental can zip along with grenades to position them perfectly at great speed. With Force 1, they also get enough services that they can use this tactic until Lofwyr retires.
You typically get a lot more services out of a Force 4 than you do a Force 6+ and as you've just spent 2,000
on it, you want to get as many services for your money as possible.Of course, the magician does like to keep a Force 7 Fire Elemental bound and ready for Plan B.
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| Of course, the magician does like to keep a Force 7 Fire Elemental bound and ready for Plan B. |
what is fistandantilus' wife doing in your games? 0.o
and what on earth makes a force 7 spirit necessary for her?
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
what is fistandantilus' wife doing in your games? 0.o and what on earth makes a force 7 spirit necessary for her? |
Dude, I know the lady personally and I'm pretty sure she could take a F7 fire elemental.
On topic: I've been running through some spirit vs. mundane combats on paper and I'm finding that any character with a strength high enough to have any chance (without using edge) of damaging the spirit also has a pretty good chance to shrug off the engulf power.
Elemental attack and the spell casting power seem to be the way to go when you're employing the assassin spirit.
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
what is fistandantilus' wife doing in your games? 0.o and what on earth makes a force 7 spirit necessary for her? |
That's his wife? I didn't realise US law was that liberal. I take it your planning to adopt in that case?
| QUOTE (OneTrikPony) |
| On topic: I've been running through some spirit vs. mundane combats on paper and I'm finding that any character with a strength high enough to have any chance (without using edge) of damaging the spirit also has a pretty good chance to shrug off the engulf power. |
Well then don't use it against characters that are that strong! The average security guard has a strength and body of 2 or maybe 3. A force 4 earth elemental has a combined Strength + Magic of 12! The chance of the security guard breaking free is slim, though an ork would have a better chance. For humans, even a Force 2 has a good chance of keeping him pinned. Don't forget that these things can appear out of nowhere right behind you and still have an initiative pass with which to attack.
And unlike other attacks, a character that is engulfed is immediately out of action and there's nothing to stop a spirit engulfing two people every round and keeping them that way.
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