Just something I was playing around with. My thing is with 4th we see that cyber is getting cheaper. So I figure at some point they will make better grades of cyberware which of would translate to better grades of bioware as well.
Please take the time to look things over and let let me know what you think of my ideas for the 2 new grades for cyber/bioware. Named them Gamma and Omega just to keep with the greek alphabet thing that Shadowrun has going right now.
Gamma grade is as it says a 70% reduction to the essance cost or multiplied by .3 with a cost increase of 15 times that of the book price.
Omega grade is as it says a 90% reduction to the essance cost or multiplied by .1 with a cost increase of 20 times that of the book price.
Although after some time I can see the cost multipliers coming down as even special grades will become cheaper to make one day.
Full Version: Cyber/bio ware
I would imagine that since cyber has been around longer it'll advance to new grades before the bio does. I would like to see cyber with the essence of alpha and the cost of standard being the norm and then you can get the old models at dirt cheap prices but they would cost more essence than the standard.
...Beta grade took a hit in the rewrite and is not as cost effective for the 
multiplier as it used to be. Either Alpha grade should be the standard (as odinson mentioned above) and the multiplier for cost Beta becomes x2, or the essence reduction should go something like this:
Alpha: -20%
Beta: -40%
Delta: -60%
multiplier as it used to be. Either Alpha grade should be the standard (as odinson mentioned above) and the multiplier for cost Beta becomes x2, or the essence reduction should go something like this: Alpha: -20%
Beta: -40%
Delta: -60%
didn't I read somewhere that you can get betagrade bioware...
| QUOTE (djinni @ Jun 15 2007, 10:00 AM) |
| didn't I read somewhere that you can get betagrade bioware... |
Bioware, like cyberware, is available in every grade (standard, alpha, beta, and delta.)
Which means.. the ultimate twink goal....
Delta synaptic booster 3
.75 essence
2.4 million
4IP's
...in previous editions you could culture basic (only) bioware for a -25% reduction in Body Index. This was already figured into the cultured bio (hence why the costs were so high).
Unfortunately with the change to Bio in SR4 & being able to purchase it using the same grades as Cyber,, the base price of "cultured" bio did not come down & in some instances actually increased.
With the reduction in the starting resource cap, Bioware has effectively become more expensive at chargen level which I see as opposite to the SOTA trend. For example, you get Synaptic booster 2 & you've pretty much spent most of your on one implant.
Unfortunately with the change to Bio in SR4 & being able to purchase it using the same grades as Cyber,, the base price of "cultured" bio did not come down & in some instances actually increased.
With the reduction in the starting resource cap, Bioware has effectively become more expensive at chargen level which I see as opposite to the SOTA trend. For example, you get Synaptic booster 2 & you've pretty much spent most of your
on one implant.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...in previous editions you could culture basic (only) bioware for a -25% reduction in Body Index. This was already figured into the cultured bio (hence why the costs were so high). Unfortunately with the change to Bio in SR4 & being able to purchase it using the same grades as Cyber,, the base price of "cultured" bio did not come down & in some instances actually increased. With the reduction in the starting resource cap, Bioware has effectively become more expensive at chargen level which I see as opposite to the SOTA trend. For example, you get Synaptic booster 2 & you've pretty much spent most of your on one implant. |
True but it is still better as a cost to essence ratio than most cyberware.
Even delta wired 1 would be 1 essance and cost 110,000
whereas synamptic 1 standard is 1/2 the essance cost and is 30,000
cheaperthat seems SOTA to me.
Well personally I do the following:
(Can be brought at Char Gen.)
Junk Cyberware x1.5 Ess x0.25
Cyberware x1 Ess x0.5
Alphaware x0.8 Ess x1
Betaware x0.7 Ess x2
(Never going to see it in your lifetime Chummer.)
Deltaware x0.5 Ess x4
Gammaware x0.3 Ess x10
I also do the same for Bioware.
(Can be brought at Char Gen.)
Junk Cyberware x1.5 Ess x0.25
Cyberware x1 Ess x0.5
Alphaware x0.8 Ess x1
Betaware x0.7 Ess x2
(Never going to see it in your lifetime Chummer.)
Deltaware x0.5 Ess x4
Gammaware x0.3 Ess x10
I also do the same for Bioware.
| QUOTE (lunchbox311) |
| True but it is still better as a cost to essence ratio than most cyberware. Even delta wired 1 would be 1 essance and cost 110,000 nuyen.gif whereas synamptic 1 standard is 1/2 the essance cost and is 30,000 nuyen.gif cheaper that seems SOTA to me. |
...even so, 80,000 for Synaptic 1 is 32% of the max resources cap at chargen. In previous editions it came to 7.5% the maximum resources cap. That is a big difference. One would think that in seven years time the costs for bio would have come down somewhat (falling more into scale with the SR 4 "economic level") as they did for Cyber. Maybe not as dramatically, but say, 50k X rating for Synaptic Boosting would have been a bit more reasonable.
After all, the real caps controlling maximum bio/cyber rating at chargen tend's to be availability.
I have to agree with KK on this one availablitiy should be the limiting factor and the costs should have been more in line with the priceing on cyber.
Especially with the fact it is the same bio that has been around for 30 years show me one product today that has not gotten cheaper if not better over the course of 30 years.
New cyber was invented and upgrades to current cyber were made also costs came down.
New bio is no where to be seen (althought that may change with Augmentation) let along seeing it improved or following the developement cost curve that older products tend to follow.
Especially with the fact it is the same bio that has been around for 30 years show me one product today that has not gotten cheaper if not better over the course of 30 years.
New cyber was invented and upgrades to current cyber were made also costs came down.
New bio is no where to be seen (althought that may change with Augmentation) let along seeing it improved or following the developement cost curve that older products tend to follow.
| QUOTE |
| show me one product today that has not gotten cheaper if not better over the course of 30 years. |
Gasoline?
| QUOTE (HappyDaze) | ||
Gasoline? |
Heathcare
Prostitutes?
Gasoline - Over the 30 years has become better refined? I guess you'd say 30 years ago there was Regular only now we have Unleaded in 3 grades.
Granted not cheaper but it is better and I did say if not cheaper then better.
Heathcare - we live longer better lives due to advancenes in healthcare. Again not cheaper but it is better.
Prostitutes - Do you really want a cheaper one???????????????????????????? more expensive useally means better quality lol. although one could say whlie not cheaper they did get better at it they learned lots of new tricks. Heck some even cum with toys. Others cum with firends if that's not an improvement I don't what is.
Granted not cheaper but it is better and I did say if not cheaper then better.
Heathcare - we live longer better lives due to advancenes in healthcare. Again not cheaper but it is better.
Prostitutes - Do you really want a cheaper one???????????????????????????? more expensive useally means better quality lol. although one could say whlie not cheaper they did get better at it they learned lots of new tricks. Heck some even cum with toys. Others cum with firends if that's not an improvement I don't what is.
| QUOTE (Casazil) |
| Gasoline - Over the 30 years has become better refined? I guess you'd say 30 years ago there was Regular only now we have Unleaded in 3 grades. Granted not cheaper but it is better and I did say if not cheaper then better. Heathcare - we live longer better lives due to advancenes in healthcare. Again not cheaper but it is better. Prostitutes - Do you really want a cheaper one???????????????????????????? more expensive useally means better quality lol. although one could say whlie not cheaper they did get better at it they learned lots of new tricks. Heck some even cum with toys. Others cum with firends if that's not an improvement I don't what is. |
The gasoline hasn't really become better it's become cleaner. The improvements in gas have all been to make the environment better not to make cars go farther and faster. The reason cars go farther and faster is better, electronic engines. You can measure out just the right amount of fuel and mix it with just the right amount of air to get the biggest explosion possible. The actual construction of the engines has also improved to increase the efficency of the energy transfer also. Most cars out there today actually perform worse on the higher grades of gas. If you check your owners manual and it says to use regular gas and you put supreme in it cost you more, you'll get worse fuel mileage and it is harder on your engine.
| QUOTE (Casazil) |
| Especially with the fact it is the same bio that has been around for 30 years show me one product today that has not gotten cheaper if not better over the course of 30 years. |
How about coca cola. It used to cost a nickle. Sure not much cheaper, and if New Coke proved anything, changing it didn't make it better.
Ok so gas
(first side note my cars owner manual says to use mid grade so do most cars I have looked at in the past year as am looking into getting a new car this seems universal to all makes and models.)
Now then I'll give you gas is not the main reason for cars going/doing better it is the car itself. but as you pointed out the gas has been improved to be cleaner to the enviroment. reguardless of what the effect is gas has gotten better in the last 30 years.
Now for coke 30 years ago it cost a nickle ok true but the coke you drink today is not the same formula as back then. Because back then coke had another ingredient in it this ingerdient is where coke got it's name from. the missing ingerdient is cocaine.
Now I personally have no idea if there was enough to get you hooked but I think the removeal of cocaine is an improvement for the better don't you?
(first side note my cars owner manual says to use mid grade so do most cars I have looked at in the past year as am looking into getting a new car this seems universal to all makes and models.)
Now then I'll give you gas is not the main reason for cars going/doing better it is the car itself. but as you pointed out the gas has been improved to be cleaner to the enviroment. reguardless of what the effect is gas has gotten better in the last 30 years.
Now for coke 30 years ago it cost a nickle ok true but the coke you drink today is not the same formula as back then. Because back then coke had another ingredient in it this ingerdient is where coke got it's name from. the missing ingerdient is cocaine.
Now I personally have no idea if there was enough to get you hooked but I think the removeal of cocaine is an improvement for the better don't you?
Well I used to be able to buy a comic book, large Royal Crown Cola and a Baby Ruth candy bar for 25 cents. 35 cents if the comic book as a 25 cent big book. And the comic books had a complete story in each issue also, so how is today better? I financed this enterprise buy loading up my Red Wagon with empty soda pop bottles and turning them in for the 5 cent deposit at my local 7-11 store. So how many of those things can I do this day.....none. So over the years candy bars have gotten smaller, with less REAL ingredients, sodas have gotten more expensive, using cheaper ingredients, comic books cost as much as paper back books and never have a complete story in an issue. So nothing has gotten cheaper, and the value is drastically decreased. enjoy your fantasy.
- New Cyber/Bio Grades__Essence_____Capacity____Availability____Cost
- Standard____________-0 % (x1.0)____As Item_____As Item______x 1
- Epsilon Grade________-10 % (x.9)____As Item_____As Item______x 1.5
- Alpha Grade_________-20 % (x.8)____As Item_____As Item______x 2
- Beta Grade__________-30 % (x.7)____As Item_____As Item______x 4
- Kappa Grade_________-40 % (x.6)____As Item_____As Item______x 6
- Omicron Grade_______-50 % (x.5)____As Item_____As Item______x 8
- Delta Grade__________-60 % (x.4)____As Item_____As Item_____x 10
- Sigma Grade_________-70 % (x.3)____As Item_____As Item_____x 12
- Gamma Grade________-80 % (x.2)____As Item_____As Item_____x 14
- Omega Grade________-90 % (x.1)____As Item_____As Item______x 16
| QUOTE (Casazil) |
| Ok so gas (first side note my cars owner manual says to use mid grade so do most cars I have looked at in the past year as am looking into getting a new car this seems universal to all makes and models.) Now then I'll give you gas is not the main reason for cars going/doing better it is the car itself. but as you pointed out the gas has been improved to be cleaner to the enviroment. reguardless of what the effect is gas has gotten better in the last 30 years. Now for coke 30 years ago it cost a nickle ok true but the coke you drink today is not the same formula as back then. Because back then coke had another ingredient in it this ingerdient is where coke got it's name from. the missing ingerdient is cocaine. Now I personally have no idea if there was enough to get you hooked but I think the removeal of cocaine is an improvement for the better don't you? |
Coke had the missing ingredient like 100 years ago not 30. The formula has changed but not enough that people are going to notice.
Ok so I did some research sorta and best I can fin it was around 1929 that coke went cocaine free. So 78 years ago true more than 30 but still a change for the better sorta lol.
Where some technology is concerned things are different
...Calculators: the first 5 function ones cost more than 50$
...Digital watches: The earliest model (an LED digital which totally sucked batteries) which was first premiered in a James Bond film cost 700$
...Computers: The early IBM PCs were in the neighbourhood of 3,500 - 5,000$ with a blazing 4Mhz clock speed, 256K of RAM, dual single side floppy drives and a boat anchor of a hard drive with an unbelievable 10 MB capacity. Less than 20 years ago CD-ROM drives used to run upwards of 800 - 1,000$, and less then four years ago, LCD flat panel monitors went for about 500$ - 600$
...Colour Televisions: we were the first in out neighbourhood with a colour telly, a monster Zenith that was as much furniture as it was an appliance, which cost a whopping 850$ & had to be colour corrected each time you turned it on.
No look at where we are:
...Calculators: You can buy a five function calculator for .99 They are often given away as premiums.
...Digital Watches:You can get an LCD digital watch (with stopwatch or calculator functions) for about 5$ - 10$
...Computers: The notebook computer I am using right now (which weighs about 3.5 lb) has 500mb of Ram, an 80G HD, a clock speed around 1.6 Ghz, Pentium Centrino dual with built in wireless capability, a R/W DVD, wide screen display, surround sound. The price: 650$ new about eight months ago (with no mail in rebate).
...Colour Televisions: for 850$ today you can get a 23" (the same screen dimensions as our old "Archie Bunker model") High Def flat screen LCD display. You can get a standard CRT colour Telly of the same screen size for about 99$.
True, other things like cars seem expensive today, however adjusting for inflation from 40 years ago, for an "average" sedan (a Ford Taurus) the relative outlay is about the same. True on the old Monty Haul show a fully loaded Cadillac was valued at 7,500 - 8,000$ but then the average minimum wage back then was about .95 - 1.10$ an hour in states where it was enforced.
Given that Biotech has been around for 30 years in the SR world, yes I could see some moderation in the pricing occurring. Again not a drastic as for standard Cyber which can be mass produced.
...Calculators: the first 5 function ones cost more than 50$
...Digital watches: The earliest model (an LED digital which totally sucked batteries) which was first premiered in a James Bond film cost 700$
...Computers: The early IBM PCs were in the neighbourhood of 3,500 - 5,000$ with a blazing 4Mhz clock speed, 256K of RAM, dual single side floppy drives and a boat anchor of a hard drive with an unbelievable 10 MB capacity. Less than 20 years ago CD-ROM drives used to run upwards of 800 - 1,000$, and less then four years ago, LCD flat panel monitors went for about 500$ - 600$
...Colour Televisions: we were the first in out neighbourhood with a colour telly, a monster Zenith that was as much furniture as it was an appliance, which cost a whopping 850$ & had to be colour corrected each time you turned it on.
No look at where we are:
...Calculators: You can buy a five function calculator for .99 They are often given away as premiums.
...Digital Watches:You can get an LCD digital watch (with stopwatch or calculator functions) for about 5$ - 10$
...Computers: The notebook computer I am using right now (which weighs about 3.5 lb) has 500mb of Ram, an 80G HD, a clock speed around 1.6 Ghz, Pentium Centrino dual with built in wireless capability, a R/W DVD, wide screen display, surround sound. The price: 650$ new about eight months ago (with no mail in rebate).
...Colour Televisions: for 850$ today you can get a 23" (the same screen dimensions as our old "Archie Bunker model") High Def flat screen LCD display. You can get a standard CRT colour Telly of the same screen size for about 99$.
True, other things like cars seem expensive today, however adjusting for inflation from 40 years ago, for an "average" sedan (a Ford Taurus) the relative outlay is about the same. True on the old Monty Haul show a fully loaded Cadillac was valued at 7,500 - 8,000$ but then the average minimum wage back then was about .95 - 1.10$ an hour in states where it was enforced.
Given that Biotech has been around for 30 years in the SR world, yes I could see some moderation in the pricing occurring. Again not a drastic as for standard Cyber which can be mass produced.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.