This new list is kinda of thoughts on a better progression? of Cyber/Bio grades.
The reduction to essance follows the book but the cost increase is off for delta.
Then again the designers didn't following the increase the way it was progressing they jumped to 10 when 8 would be the next logical progression.
P 303 SR4 table on cyber/bio grades under cost goes like this:
Standard is x 1 now double it
Alpha is x 2 now double it
Beta is x 4 now double it and add 2 ???? doesn't really make much sence other than to make it cost so much your 90% certian most players will consider it outrageous and never go for it.
Delta is X 10
Anyway enjoy the new poll I'm off to bed I have a game to run tomorrow. well later today lol.
Full Version: New cybe/bioware grades list
I don't understand the poll or the reasoning. Why would Epsilon be worse than Alpha if Beta is better than Alpha?
Why should higher grades of technological equipment follow a simple price forumla? Seriously, a Timex Ironman 51651 costs about $85. A Patek Philippe Perpetual Calendar watch sets you back sixty grand. Berlusconi wears a watch that retails for over half a million dollars.
These are just watches. They tell time. And yet, it is entirely possible for higher "grades" to increase in cost by a factor of ten thousand.
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that the highest, most special grade of cyberware only costs 10 times as much as the "standard" fare is incredibly unrealistic. But it's a concession to playability. Noone really wants to hear about the nine-hundred thousand
you could trivially dump into getting cybereyes that were elegant, high grade, and fashionable.
Coming up with new grades with inconsistent names and a new pricing scheme does not make the game more playable. It doesn't make things more realistic. It's just extra static in the rules that makes things less accessible.
-Frank
Why should higher grades of technological equipment follow a simple price forumla? Seriously, a Timex Ironman 51651 costs about $85. A Patek Philippe Perpetual Calendar watch sets you back sixty grand. Berlusconi wears a watch that retails for over half a million dollars.
These are just watches. They tell time. And yet, it is entirely possible for higher "grades" to increase in cost by a factor of ten thousand.
---
that the highest, most special grade of cyberware only costs 10 times as much as the "standard" fare is incredibly unrealistic. But it's a concession to playability. Noone really wants to hear about the nine-hundred thousand
you could trivially dump into getting cybereyes that were elegant, high grade, and fashionable.Coming up with new grades with inconsistent names and a new pricing scheme does not make the game more playable. It doesn't make things more realistic. It's just extra static in the rules that makes things less accessible.
-Frank
I applaud your enthusiasm, but I think this is too much.
The market would probably not support this many levels of quality. Typically you would have good, better, best, (standard, Alpha, Beta) and the Delta is cutting edge, almost like a prototype which is why it costs more than the usual progression.
In your example, most of the in-between grades could be considered "used"... and remember, RAW prices can vary depending on who you buy from and how.
The market would probably not support this many levels of quality. Typically you would have good, better, best, (standard, Alpha, Beta) and the Delta is cutting edge, almost like a prototype which is why it costs more than the usual progression.
In your example, most of the in-between grades could be considered "used"... and remember, RAW prices can vary depending on who you buy from and how.
I would probably recommend a logarithmic expansion of costs. If some one wants a omega grade datajack they should pay more than 8000Y.
I think ronin3338 had a good point also, inbetween grades could be made with adding used to differet qualities of ware.
However, of all of the grades, I thought kappa would be the most useful.
I think ronin3338 had a good point also, inbetween grades could be made with adding used to differet qualities of ware.
However, of all of the grades, I thought kappa would be the most useful.
...I prefer where things were in previous editions. Beta just is not worth the cost anymore. for only x2 to the cost you get a 20% reduction with alpha, but double the multiplier and you only get an additional 10%?
I would either use the scale I mentioned in the previous thread on this topic or do it this way & dispense with the other grades. Delta would still be hard to find as well.
Alpha -15%
Beta -30%
Delta -50%
I would either use the scale I mentioned in the previous thread on this topic or do it this way & dispense with the other grades. Delta would still be hard to find as well.
Alpha -15%
Beta -30%
Delta -50%
Um Frank I don't get your issue with "Why would Epsilon be worse than Alpha if Beta is better than Alpha?"
It is a lesser grade or is your thinking that the greek alphabet has Epsilon after alpha and beta there for Epsilon would denote a higher grade?
It is a lesser grade or is your thinking that the greek alphabet has Epsilon after alpha and beta there for Epsilon would denote a higher grade?
ronin3338 It was just a thought something to play with but as I look at it and your answer I think your right about a market supporting time many types.
Biggest catch to me:
Standard / Alpha / (and by now) Beta are fairly standardized and doesn't matter who made it you know what to expect and the price (for as described) is fairly standard.
Sure you could pay: X for those stuffer shack Beta Cyber eyes, and you could like apy X*1,000 for those beta grade Maria Mecurial™ eyes. (remember the listed is 'base' price).
Likewise Delta may be x10 (as a guideline) but finding a Delta clinic that will work on you, and convincing them to work on you is the tricky part.
MegaCorp Y may be base pricex10 to get the delta cyberware, but then that is likely just the cost of running the lab
You: either pay MegaCorp Y enough money (considerably more then x10) to do it or (and) they have other reasons to be giving you the eyes (like the unlisted uplink of the vide footage and/or that extra plastique, umm plastic shock absorbing armor around them...
Prices are base prices. If you don't like them adjsut them, but 'Delta' getting it the trick is not the money, but the availablity.
Standard / Alpha / (and by now) Beta are fairly standardized and doesn't matter who made it you know what to expect and the price (for as described) is fairly standard.
Sure you could pay: X for those stuffer shack Beta Cyber eyes, and you could like apy X*1,000 for those beta grade Maria Mecurial™ eyes. (remember the listed is 'base' price).
Likewise Delta may be x10 (as a guideline) but finding a Delta clinic that will work on you, and convincing them to work on you is the tricky part.
MegaCorp Y may be base pricex10 to get the delta cyberware, but then that is likely just the cost of running the lab
You: either pay MegaCorp Y enough money (considerably more then x10) to do it or (and) they have other reasons to be giving you the eyes (like the unlisted uplink of the vide footage and/or that extra plastique, umm plastic shock absorbing armor around them...
Prices are base prices. If you don't like them adjsut them, but 'Delta' getting it the trick is not the money, but the availablity.
| QUOTE (laughingowl) |
| 'Delta' getting it the trick is not the money, but the availablity. |
I dunno... I always ran it in my game that if you have the money to burn... you can get the item. I mean yeah the availability goes up and so does the cost. Honestly though, I figure if you can shell out the 10x cost... why couldn't you get it at half essence?
My players still rarely capitalize on it anyway... i mean 5000 for a .05 datajack is not worth it often and 10x cost for most stuff that would be worth it is just way to far for them to really afford anyhow.
I think I remember Art Dankwalther bought a delta clinic that Richard Villers had (before art got the thor shot.) He apparently opened it to "anyone" as the book said (at least the fluff said in Corporate Download IIRC) and so I figure some corps would do this... if nothing else... just for the extra profit.
| QUOTE |
| I think I remember Art Dankwalther bought a delta clinic that Richard Villers had (before art got the thor shot.) He apparently opened it to "anyone" as the book said (at least the fluff said in Corporate Download IIRC) and so I figure some corps would do this... if nothing else... just for the extra profit. |
Just like people who depend on Torrents to get the firewall/anit-virus software...
Considering somebody is (more then likely) breaking severe laws putting any of the 'good' cyberware in you, and is risking a multi-billion? dollar lab to do it ... Don't think money is going to be enough to convince them (unless you outright buying the lab and paying a few years of the doctors income).
People have the money and willingness to buy .. but luckily no terrorist has managed to buy all the needed components for a nuclear device and assemble it.
Money (even insnae money) won't buy everything, especially when the cost of getting caught will cost you your base of operations. Unless you are paid enough the clinic' is a throw-away (delta clinic one-shot use hell no).
The owner of the clinic is going to be real concerned about, their delta-ware showing up someplace being traced back and say buy-biuy to their clinic.
| QUOTE (laughingowl) | ||
Just like people who depend on Torrents to get the firewall/anit-virus software... Considering somebody is (more then likely) breaking severe laws putting any of the 'good' cyberware in you, and is risking a multi-billion? dollar lab to do it ... Don't think money is going to be enough to convince them (unless you outright buying the lab and paying a few years of the doctors income). People have the money and willingness to buy .. but luckily no terrorist has managed to buy all the needed components for a nuclear device and assemble it. Money (even insnae money) won't buy everything, especially when the cost of getting caught will cost you your base of operations. Unless you are paid enough the clinic' is a throw-away (delta clinic one-shot use hell no). The owner of the clinic is going to be real concerned about, their delta-ware showing up someplace being traced back and say buy-biuy to their clinic. |
I suppose you are correct. I guess it just goes back to my players not even wanting to bother... I mean you can get a bioware version of most cyberware for better than delta... and nobody can afford delta bioware in my games (might as well retire there) so I guess it does not matter.
Deltaware, unless it is bioware, is really not all that amazing. The bioware essence costs are so much lower than the cyber counterparts that even with the bioware increased cost it is still less than delta and more essence friendly.
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