fistandantilus4.0
Jun 21 2007, 04:55 AM
bibliophile20
Jun 21 2007, 05:11 AM
More!
....
[best Agent Smith voice]
Moorrrreee...
[/best Agent Smith voice]
Dayum, this is gonna be interesting!
Trax
Jun 21 2007, 05:59 AM
"Swiss Gov Launches Technomancer Control Initiative"
Man, I never would've bet that the Swiss would suggest something like that. More of an American type thing to do. Maybe some Technomancer hacked into their Swiss bank account computers?
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 07:18 AM
hmm, anyone have a pdf editor?
those black blobs look like they where added in the pdf file...
Synner
Jun 21 2007, 07:29 AM
They were and they're intended to work as spoilers and leave you some surprises. As I've said before there's a lot going on in Emergence and we'd like to save some of the twists for when the actual book hits the shelves.
QUOTE |
Man, I never would've bet that the Swiss would suggest something like that. |
I take it you've never read Shadows of Europe. Switzerland isn't what it used to be.
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 07:32 AM
lets just say synner, i can understand why you all want to do that
Ranneko
Jun 21 2007, 09:01 AM
Yep, that totally fits the Switzerland I recall from SoE.
And also, cant wait for the PDF release. Started to reread some of the older sourcebooks recently.
Buster
Jun 21 2007, 10:25 AM
QUOTE (Trax) |
"Swiss Gov Launches Technomancer Control Initiative"
Man, I never would've bet that the Swiss would suggest something like that. More of an American type thing to do. Maybe some Technomancer hacked into their Swiss bank account computers? |
The Swiss are xenophobes of the worst sort. And god help you if you put up a windchime in your own home there. They're a little mountain enclave of Nazis.
Grinder
Jun 21 2007, 10:47 AM
And rich. That makes it much worse.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 21 2007, 11:05 AM
Nothing unexpected.
Including the crave for Unwired.
Zen Shooter01
Jun 21 2007, 01:22 PM
That's great!
Where's the Augmentation preview?
Link
Jun 21 2007, 01:39 PM
You'll find a link in the article referred to in the first post.
I think hobgoblin is on to something.
Moon-Hawk
Jun 21 2007, 02:01 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
They were and they're intended to work as spoilers and leave you some surprises. |
I don't know how anyone with a pdf editor could resist the temptation. I was never a kid to look for my Christmas presents or anything, but man, those little black blobs are
taunting me. "Don't you want to move me aside and see the
good stuff?" they seem to say.
Ugh.
In any case, if I break down and peek I'll keep my big yap shut until somebody else spoils the surprise for everyone, so you don't need to send the Red Samurai over to my house or anything.
Moon-Hawk
Jun 21 2007, 02:06 PM
Haha. "In UR Head, Hacking UR Brain" I love it! Left edge of page 4.
Dashifen
Jun 21 2007, 02:12 PM
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
Haha. "In UR Head, Hacking UR Brain" I love it! Left edge of page 4. |
Yeah, I noticed that, too. At least there wasn't a LOL cat to go with it
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 02:21 PM
QUOTE (Link) |
You'll find a link in the article referred to in the first post. I think hobgoblin is on to something. |
no comment
Aaron
Jun 21 2007, 02:34 PM
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
I don't know how anyone with a pdf editor could resist the temptation. |
I know I couldn't. I mean, come on. Mixing information I want to know with a technical "puzzle" that reveals that information if you solve it? It's like it's my birthday or something.
Moon-Hawk
Jun 21 2007, 02:50 PM
QUOTE (Aaron) |
I mean, come on. Mixing information I want to know with a technical "puzzle" that reveals that information if you solve it? It's like it's my birthday or something. |
You made me LOL at work.
Zolhex
Jun 21 2007, 03:15 PM
Bah that's not a perview that's a publicly released government document.
Synner
Jun 21 2007, 03:33 PM
Actually I was hoping to have the time to make an "Oversight Office" stamp, unfortunately we've been a bit swamped.
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 03:45 PM
QUOTE (Casazil) |
Bah that's not a perview that's a publicly released government document. |
i think the worst example of those that i know of was one that was all black except for one or two words...
MYST1C
Jun 21 2007, 03:51 PM
For the technically challenged - the hidden parts:
[ Spoiler ]
1) System Anomalies -> Game Information -> Myths of Creation - 19
2) Revelations -> Digital Awakening -> Moving Targets and Business Opportunities - 35
3) Witch Hunt -> In the Crosshairs -> NewsTalk Excerpt - 58
4) Witch Hunt -> Game Information -> The Secret History of AIs - 78
5) The Soul of a New Machine -> Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt -> Is Aztechnology Hiding an AI? - 84
6) The Soul of a New Machine -> Strange Bedfellows? -> The Naked Truth: The AI-Technomancer Connection - 94
7) The Soul of a New Machine -> Taking the Offensive -> Evo Sponsors Digital Intelligence Debate - 94
8) The Soul of a New Machine -> Game Information -> Handling AIs - 105
9) Aftermath -> Paterson's Guide To Matrix Entities - 114
10) Aftermath -> Artificial Intelligence Players - 117
11) Aftermath -> Artificial Intelligence Players -> Artificial Resource Management - 117
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 03:53 PM
oh crap, where is a moderator when one need them?
use a spoiler tag, damn it!
Ravor
Jun 21 2007, 03:54 PM
[ Spoiler ]
Thanks, now I just hope that not all AIs are the "Gods/Passions amonst Bugs" that Deus and company were.
*EDIT*Added [ Spoiler ] Tags.
MYST1C
Jun 21 2007, 03:56 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
use a spoiler tag, damn it! |
Better now?
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 03:57 PM
perfect
Ravor
Jun 21 2007, 04:00 PM
Although to be fair, considering that its nothing that someone first opening the book wouldn't find out anyways I'm not quite sure why [ Spoiler ] Tags are actually needed.
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 04:03 PM
QUOTE (Ravor) |
Although to be fair, considering that its nothing that someone first opening the book wouldn't find out anyways I'm not quite sure why [ Spoiler ] Tags are actually needed. |
read synners post about why those parts where blacked out...
yep they will find out why when they open the book (or get the full pdf of the net) but they wanted to leave them as a bit of a surprise until then.
MYST1C
Jun 21 2007, 04:04 PM
[ Spoiler ]
I guess all this AI-related information explains why Emergence has to be released before Unwired - reading a bunch of AI rules (Unwired) without background (Emergence) would've been irritating.
Ravor
Jun 21 2007, 04:09 PM
I read his reasoning, I just don't agree with him on this issue since the preview is just the Table of Contents.
If the Spoilers were actual Spoilers from the book's text then I would be on board however.
Still, I guess that it is better to be polite then not.
Ravor
Jun 21 2007, 04:13 PM
[ Spoiler ]
Well yeah, but now we'll probably have to wait until Unwired before we get the Rules for the nifty Background Fluff we are being given.
If there aren't any AI rules in the book then I wish they would have waited for Emergence until Unwired was ready to be released back-to-back.
Meriss
Jun 21 2007, 04:16 PM
Oh happy Day! Oh Happpy Day! Yays!
More please?
QUOTE (MYST1C) |
[ Spoiler ] I guess all this AI-related information explains why Emergence has to be released before Unwired - reading a bunch of AI rules (Unwired) without background (Emergence) would've been irritating. |
That's correct, and in addition, there might be further developments up to the point when Unwired will be released. Developments that might be both a continuation from the Emergence plot as well as some new nuances thrown in.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 21 2007, 04:17 PM
QUOTE (MYST1C) |
[ Spoiler ] I guess all this AI-related information explains why Emergence has to be released before Unwired - reading a bunch of AI rules (Unwired) without background (Emergence) would've been irritating. |
Hardly. There were such rules in Matrix, and there were suggestions in System Failure.
Personally, I find it much more irritating to release a campaign revolving around the matrix whithout the advanced rules.
[ Spoiler ]
SR4 AI's are different from SR3 AI's. In addition to that, the Brainscan/DEUS campaign was one of several metaplots, while again here, the SR4 format is different.
EDIT:oops, spoiler tags now added
JongWK
Jun 21 2007, 04:47 PM
Tobias, please use spoiler tags.
Backgammon
Jun 21 2007, 04:54 PM
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
Personally, I find it much more irritating to release a campaign revolving around the matrix whithout the advanced rules. |
I agree with that.
However, I'll take it on faith for now that the SR folks thought about that and made the campaign in such a way as to limit that irritation.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 21 2007, 04:57 PM
QUOTE (TW) |
[ Spoiler ] SR4 AI's are different from SR3 AI's. |
Technically, no. System Failure was still SR3 and the information, including game information for SR3 was released back then.
QUOTE (TW) |
[ Spoiler ] In addition to that, the Brainscan/DEUS campaign was one of several metaplots, while again here, the SR4 format is different. |
Which makes it even worse releasing the most important supplement for the main campaign afterwards.
It's not like there aren't quite some very basic questions about the new matrix rules - and handwaving sure is an option... just not a decent one.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, all I can say to that is that the idea of releasing 'Unwired' before 'Emergence' was thought through and the decision was made not to.
The authors and dev's certainly did their best to ensure Emergence is enjoyable (and certainly playable) without requiring Unwired. Increasing the craving, yes, but required, no.
fistandantilus4.0
Jun 21 2007, 05:08 PM
Generally there's a Game Information section that gives the rules for these sorts of things. Hopefully there will be something along these lines in Emergence.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 21 2007, 05:11 PM
Perhaps I didn't manage to make my point clear:
As it is now, the matrix rules have serious bugs that make them pretty much near unusable in normal play without heavy handwaving.
Thus, playing a matrix centered campaing without debugging the first in one way or another seems a bad thing to do.
fistandantilus4.0
Jun 21 2007, 05:18 PM
QUOTE (TW) |
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, all I can say to that is that the idea of releasing 'Unwired' before 'Emergence' was thought through and the decision was made not to. |
From what we've heard, Unwired isn't going to be released until after Augmentaion and Arsenal, suggesting that unwired simply isn't finished yet. My guess would be they needed something to drive the metaplot along, since SR4 releases have been almost all rules, with the exception of On the Run. After all, most people like shadowrun (in my experience) mainly for the world, and rules secondary. We haven't seen any real developments in the world so far, and I know a lot of people aren't thrilled about having no info on the last five years either. Not saying there won't be things to struggle through without more complete rules, but I can see why they'd go with Emergence first.
knasser
Jun 21 2007, 05:19 PM
Well I messed around for about five minutes seeing if I could get the information out by turning the pictures off or something, and then my housemate came along and got me the text in under ten seconds.
I can now see why the Technomancers trigger such fear, at any rate. So that will shut up all the people who kept saying that technomancy was no big deal when other people already had commlinks.
Aaron
Jun 21 2007, 06:08 PM
[ Spoiler ]
This isn't a real post, I'm just messing with the people who are avoiding the spoilers. If you want to, feel free to play along.
What I don't understand is why they brought him back as an AI. I mean, the tie-in with the will is nice and all, but if you want him back, there are other ways that hold with precedent.
hobgoblin
Jun 21 2007, 06:10 PM
cute aaron, real cute
Aaron
Jun 21 2007, 06:29 PM
=iP
Synner
Jun 21 2007, 06:31 PM
Emergence focuses on two major elements we wanted to introduce in SR4 (the first everyone knew about, the second is a surprise) and firmly grounds both in the Sixth World.
In one sense it is a (much needed) metaplot book, in that it drives the universe forward and shakes things up a little, but more than that it is a setting book - one that should be useful whether you want to play the adventures therein or not. In fact its a pretty darn good read (if I do say so myself).
While the book provides some of the backstory that was missing for technomancers (and partly explains why they're just becoming news in 2070), it focuses on providing societal context and background on the bigger picture of technomancers in society and the shadows of 2070—and the myriad and unexpected ramifications thereof.
With technomancers an integral element of the gameworld from the corebook and people already playing them, there was no way we were going to hold off doing this and then pull the rug from under people's feet.
The logic for publishing the books in this order is simple: while the Matrix is integral to the campaign, make no mistake, it isn't the focus of the campaign. Events do revolve around Matrix elements and things do happen in the Matrix. But bigger things happen in the real world. This is a campaign about individuals and society, what it means to be human, and how far will you go to protect yourself from threats... real or imagined. You could be hapless with the Matrix and still get involved in this campaign. It explores some pretty dark themes in places and there are a couple of points where the dystopic nature of the setting really shines through.
As for the "second new element", all I'll say for now is that there's a twist (come on, by now you know me, there's always a twist). They might or might not be what people think, and that too factors into the storyline.
As written the campaign requires no Advanced Rules and is playable with the core SR rules (Matrix and otherwise). Note - Needless to say that I disagree with Rotbard on the Matrix rules requiring serious handwaving. Some clarification, maybe (and less so after the FAQ). Then again I would also argue that as written you didn't need the advanced Matrix rules in SR3 to play and enjoy Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, Brainscan or System Failure.
One last tip for now: keep in mind that the preview is a Table of Contents not the actual contents.
knasser
Jun 21 2007, 06:55 PM
QUOTE (Aaron) |
[ Spoiler ] This isn't a real post, I'm just messing with the people who are avoiding the spoilers. If you want to, feel free to play along.
What I don't understand is why they brought him back as an AI. I mean, the tie-in with the will is nice and all, but if you want him back, there are other ways that hold with precedent. |
[ Spoiler ]
You bastard! You imaginative, cruel, bastard! Even before opening the spoiler tags, I was wondering what in the contents page had suggested he was back!
It's not like everyone didn't expect this somehow, but this looks... interesting.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jun 21 2007, 07:20 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
Note - Needless to say that I disagree with Rotbard on the Matrix rules requiring serious handwaving. Some clarification, maybe (and less so after the FAQ). |
They need Errata, especially the Response decrease issue. (Yes, the FAQ adresses this, but that doesn't remove the recursion from the RAW)
Decoupling System from Response and tieing the Program Rating limit directly to Response may solve some oddities.
That doesn't solve the Subscription Limit issue though, which as it is now, limits every connection on both sides to Systemx2, limiting servers to 12 users logged in.
This, on the other hand, results in the need of snowballing large systems into complex star shapes... causing anyone browsing through to hop nodes one by one.
Additionally, an Agent searching the matrix uses the rating of the node he is running on, and as he constantly hops nodes, his attributes are constantly changing.
Again, this is just the way the matrix works by RAW. Needless to say, I'm fairly certain that this is hardly the way it was intended - but removing the kinks of the workload and connection level is serious handwaving.
QUOTE (Synner) |
Then again I would also argue that as written you didn't need the advanced Matrix rules in SR3 to play and enjoy Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, Brainscan or System Failure. |
That's mainly because back then, plot and rule books weren't stricklty seperated.
pbangarth
Jun 21 2007, 07:22 PM
[ Spoiler ]
So what happens when we all start writing EVERYTHING as a spoiler?
So what about that, eh?
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