I find that I have a Rigger player who has submitted a Charisma 1 Uncouth character. I know for a fact he's an unrequited munchkin.


How should I deal with this? He's essentially Unaware of social skills; does this mean even a little kid can convince him to do what they say with a single success? (Reading the description of Uncouth, it references Success Tests, but I can't find them, nor can I find the description of Unaware under skill descriptions. I am thusly confused.)

Note that his skill of 0 applies to resisting as well... Intimidate is going to make him wee himself and run, he's so easily conned that street salesmen are *always* giving him "gold" watches, and for the love of Gwar, don't let him near the negotiating table!

"Hey Bob, you got any ideas?"

"Naw, my Leadeship skill's unrollable ... I got NUTHIN'."

We won't even start on the horrors of him trying to get equipment.

"Aailability 4? Bwa-haha! No, sorry, you can't get up the nerve to ask anyone in the store for help, let alone where "The good stuff" is. You're lucky you didn't wee on yourself when the cute girl at the register smiled at someone beside you."

Oh, this is going to be FUN...

But he's planning to play the "Rigger in a Bunker" archtype. Not even rigger in a van, rigger in a bunker. I expect that he plans to place all of his purchases via the Matrix.

Wireless paint will make his concept pretty much non-playable. But my best suggestion is to hand back his character sheet, tell him "NO!" in a firm and parental voice and then tell him to remake the character realistically. You say he's a munchkin and yet you will let him get away with one of the most munchkin tactics. Nip it in the butt and maybe he'll change.

WhiskeyMac, I've already told him about wifi blocking paint and wallpaper essentially turning any interior space into a faraday cage.

He just dosen't care, insisting he can provide air support and extraction.


I think I'm just gonna shut him down quick and make him suffer.

Just have the first 4 or 5 runs where all he does is drive the characters to the job and pick them up after. Have everything to the job be uneventful and everything after it be uneventful. He'll either get bored and go looking for trouble, if the other players don't stop that quick it's your chance to make big trouble that is a almost tpk, or he'll decide to make a new character thats a little less muchy..

buying stuff shouldn't be an issue, as long as no tests are involved. thus, he could buy anything that is 100% legal to buy, provided it wouldn't require ID of any sort...

so he could probably arm his drones... provided they only use tasers.

and he could build/repair them. so long as it's stuff you could reasonably salvage from a scrapyard.

but basically, it's gonna suck. a lot. in the kind of way that makes you say "why are you a shadow runner if all you can't even spend the money you earn".

also consider having him lose drones on his salvaging runs... after all, someone owns that junk, they can't just be letting all the cheapskate riggers steal it =P

Okay, I have advised the player of exactly what Uncouth means...

He is now searching for another flaw to take.

there are no 20 point flaws worth taking. taking any of the 20 point flaws is roughly about as good of an idea to take as it would be to punch yourself in the crotch with brass knuckles. repeatedly.

Unless it's a 20 point flaw allergy or phobia that's uncommon. Yeah, it's a little munchy but when the trigger comes up ...

Uncouth makes a character functionally unaware with regards to social skills, meaning that the character can't even default for any social skill he doesn't have, and even for social skills he does have, he will have to make tests for things that other characters would know as a matter of course.

I don't think it should affect resistance rolls. Let him have his one piddly Charisma die to resist con, etiquette, and negotiation tests!

The flaw is in the RAW, and three of the sample characters have it. One of them is a typical techie nerd, and the other two are violent thugs. But they still have contacts, and they can still function, albeit at the fringes of an outlaw culture.

Solely on the basis of the character type (smelly, reclusive rigger who spends most of his time in his van), the Uncouth flaw would seem to fit. Your problem with him seems to be more metagame-related. Namely, he's a munchkin. But I would refuse to accept the character outright, instead of wasting the other players' game time teaching this one guy a "lesson".

Actually, he's been scared off of Uncouth...

Now he has taken the Astral Beacon, in combination with Spirit Bane.

Yes, I know that he's not allowed to have Astral Beacon, but he's also taken Infirm as a way of being Paraplegic.

So he's a rigger in a bunker, who cannot move under his own power, with the Spirit Bane flaw and the Astral Beacon flaw...

I'm going to give him a Latent Awakening. For free, just to screw with him.

Then, randomly, during some game, like every fifth game or so, I'm going to roll 1d6 (if I'm feeling nice) or 2d6 (if I've had a bad day). These rolls will be to the determine the Force of the Free Spirit coming to kill his character.

Wow, this guy is munchy to the core. What will you do for his next character?

watching munchkins dig their characters own grave via the (ab)use of flaws never get boring

Actually, he twinged to the fact that it was a bad combination, dumped Spirit Bane, and took Elf Poser...

Sigh.

he's taken infirm? well, obviously he's totally clueless then. he's not a very good min/maxer.

you know *why* infirm is such an incredibly bad idea?

well, here's an example. we'll use a fictional player with a character who has the infirm flaw... we'll call him bob.

GM: "bob, roll a perception check"
Bob: "i can't."

now, imagine that exact same scenario... for each of the following skills:

climb. disguise. escape artist. gymnastics. infiltration. navigation. palming. running. shadowing. survival. swimming. (also parachuting, diving, and tracking, but those aren't quite as bad).

when i said that the 20 point flaws are never a good idea, i was including infirm in that. whether or not he needs these regularly, he *will* need them at some point. this guy is supposed to be a shadowrunner... he can't even try to climb stuff. he can't even try to sneak. he can't even try to conceal his illegal equipment. he can't even try to escape being tied up. he can't even try to conceal his identity. he can't even jump. literally... this character is incapable of jumping. all it takes is one hacker with a decent stealth program to trace his location, and this guy dies. the end. he can't detect anyone who makes even a halfway decent attempt to sneak up to his bunker (such as a SWAT team). he can't hear them breaking in. he can't sneak or hide from them. he can't pretend to be someone else. this guy is a corpse just waiting to happen. unless he has skillwires (and puts more than the 20 BPs from infirm towards those wires and the softs) or blows well more than 20 BPs on a few critical skills, this concept is not viable. (unless of course you houserule the infirm flaw to not be a death sentence, that is).

Shhhh, no one tell him he's better off taking multiple Incompetencies instead of Infirm/Uncouth/Uneducated.

there is nothing--nothing--more amusing than a munchkin who sucks at min/maxing. you should let this guy make whatever character he wants, and then give us a play-by-play of each session. you won't have to go out of your way at all to screw the guy over--he'll do all of it himself.

look at the IC Reflections of a Full Moon thread in the Welcome to the Shadows, there is an uncouth? rigger/hacker there, read and enjoy, he is played very well.

WMS

GM: "Your satellite receiver is picking up some unusual audible interference, munchkin."
Munchkin: "What's it sound like?"
GM: "Moo . . . ."

Actually, just point to page 87 of the BBB "Gamemasters make the final decision as to whether a character should be allowed in the game."

I recommend injecting Officer Fragmore and Officer Darling into the campaign as Ultimate NPCs.


Is he going to be staying in his Bunker and telepresenceing his entire performance or is he actually going to get out there in a pimped-out nitro-burning wheelchair-of-doom? The former is far more munchy than the latter and far less fun (though much more strategically sound).

Some hacking in his wheelchair would be great for some "haunted house effect". Just let he'd be great for some run, became famous, and then a group of hackers on his bunker for some Call of Cthulhu adventure. ^_^

"GM: The light shut down, your wheelchair starts to turn and turn on the same spot, your bathroom starts to flood and, aparently, your drainage system stopped working."

Oh the Astral Beacon, Spirit Bane, Parapaligic would have been brilliant.

billy sitting alone in his bunker playing with his drones. Suddenly the teams mage feels the wards he put up around the place being torn to shreds, then there is a free spirit of _____ sitting behind him.

First a couple things on this guy. The RF paint will screw with him a lot.

Even more vicious are opposing hackers. He is going to be incredibly vulnerable to them. Not just for the spoofing, but also for the tracking. And if he's infirm he isn't going to do so well when they come knocking. (though he'll probably sleep inside an armored chopper just in case something like that comes up. However a drone with an anti armor missle can finish that right quick.)

However you have something else you need to consider. In your campaigns how useful is having a good cha + social skills? I'm not talking about the face here. I mean for everyone who isn't the face. Sadly in a lot of campaigns skill points put into those are pretty much wasted. i.e. if you up strength a little and give yourself 3 points in the athletic skill group you'll get to use them occasionally when you need to run, or gymnastic dodge or climb out of something. It'll come up.

But keep tabs on how often cha+ the social skill group comes up in your campaign. If it doesn't your kinda asking for munchkins.

Spots it could come up.
-legwork
-having lives outside of running (which are little things you add into the game, maybe worth a karma now and then for good RPing or humor)
-having missions where the team has to be out in public (lotsa fun runs are like that).

Antiwireless paint and jammers make remote hacking/rigging a real pain.

Don't pay him. Have the Johnson demand everyone there at least at the meet and turn-in be there in person.

Treat Spirit Bane as being hunted. Have a group of fey-like spirits gambling on who can screw with him the best with second prize for most often.

Spirit Bane should ALWAYS encourage the spirit to roll Edge to kill the offending player. (and the converse is also true to help those with spirit affinity provided its heavily roleplayed by the character that he loves the spirit)

Divination > Remote Hacking/Rigging. Did I mention Guidance spirits can be conjured on the fly with Divination at the ready? Divine who controls a drone and BAMMO! All you need is the spirit to vent his edge and frustration on the other teammates for them to 'give him up'.

You dont need twink free spirits. Normal magical stuff works great. After all, it only takes him being known by the spirit world (which he already is) for them to go to an opponent of the group and not resist being summoned against the offending player.

Actually, I've hinted to him that if he is successful, eventually he'll be able to accompany the team from the inside of a four-ton anthroform four-legged combat drone.


Whether or not he actually gets one, well.....

heh, something tells me that he is having wet dreams about the arsenal book...

I don't think he knows about it.

Otherwise yes, his underwear would probably be white and wet.

Not sure if infirm is the correct negative quality for a paraplegic.
But it may be the best one.

He is aware that Infirm doubles the cost of all Physical skills, this includes Pilot Any Craft, Gunnery, and Dodge.

The only reason I ask is that it seems with infirm and a Cha 1, he will have few physical skills which he will pay through the nose for, no real social abilities, and the need for specialized drones and equipment.

Oops read Paraplegic as Quadraplegic.

I'm curious, the physically/socially-crippled hacker in the basement sounds like a cool character concept. Not everyone has to be a cyberninja. Why do you have such a problem with it? It's going to take some serious creativity to deal with the outside world when you're stuck in a chair on the other side of the planet.

Glyph's basically right; this player has said as much to me. He wants to build a character, straight out of chargen, with no less than four GM-Nissan Doberman drones and LMGs on each of them. And be able to field all four of them, remotely, and successfully...

He's in for a shock when he realizes that no, a drone CAN NOT be taken white-water rafting.

And if he tries to send a rotordrone, well...

What are the chances that an Aztechnology military research and development sight with it's own HTR team is going to take... Well, a little umbridge at his broadcasting a signal through their territory, and turn on a Rating 16 mega-jammer or something?

Not sure how to put this any other way.

He started with Cha 1, Uncouth, and Infirm. Decided that Uncouth was to detrimental and so decided to go with Spirit Bane + Astral Beacon. After some thought he realized that Astral Beacon and Spirit Bane would leave someone without banishing or spells fairly helpless. So then he wanted to just keep Astral Beacon which only really increases chances for your Astral Signature to be spotted. For someone in a Bunker this really is not a full disadvantage. I don't even want to consider the Cha 1 Elf Poser bit.

Now a Elf Poser, Uncouth, Paraplegic character would be a challenge for someone to play if he really wanted. There are people like that in RL. It would be more expensive for various special needs reasons. If that is what he really wanted then why is he changing his build so much?

The problem I have is that he wants to create a character that make 2* as much work for the GM to become a interesting playable character. Ok?

Why don't you just talk to him and explain to him his shitty character is ruining your mood and you're tired of him juggling around lame Qualities and horrendous stats in a blatant attempt at min/maxing?

I still don't understand what the problem is.

The rules require him to make a choice between being either 1) the best at one thing and the worst at something else, or 2) just mediocre at everything.

I'm guessing, but it sounds like he wants to play the pro-from-dover who's a total badass at rigging. Since the rules require him to be the worst at something else, he's just following the rules. That's the reason we have rules, so what's the problem here?

Well I'd disagree with your entire premise Buster, but part of the problem is that his character won't survive in a realistically run world and alot of us don't believe in DnD's style of the world revolving around the characters, in Shadowrun the hyper specialist should die messily and quickly because the world doesn't forgive your mistakes.

Well it's a damn good thing we're not playing in the real world, and instead are playing in a world of magic, super science, and dancing elves.

Except the rules favor hyperspecialists far more than generalists.

Wanting a hyperspecialist isn't a bad thing. It's creating a disruptive character that's bad, and that could be a generalist as easily as a specialist.

In this case, he's creating a disruptive character. That needs to be squelched. But if he were just creating a powerful one, that is fine.

I've been in many games with him, and he may be a munchkin, but he's a great roleplayer. His characters aren't always very disruptive, and are usually really fun to play with.

If you notice I said in a REALISTICALLY RUN WORLD, not in the REAL WORLD, they are two very different things Samantha and "magic, super science, and dancing elves" as you put it can quite easily exist in a REALISTICALLY RUN WORLD.

*EDIT*

Well maybe not the dancing elves.