Wounded Ronin
Jun 24 2007, 11:43 PM
I've been slowly working on a project that would use SR3 + Raygun's rules for a campaign set in the real world in the 1980s. Here is the original thread:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=17551I have found that there are various pieces of information which I need to flesh out the details of this campaign. I don't want to cause anyone any trouble but if somebody has the following information off the top of their head I would be really grateful.
1.) Do you think that straight usage of the basic SR3 BBB armor from the armor table (lined coat, vest with plates, etc.) would be a reasonable representation of soft body armor from the 1980s? I understand that the protective value of those items was in fact based on that of armor from that time period, which is why it all basically sucks by today's standards.
2.) I find myself needing to convert starting cash in Nuyen to 1980s dollars. Would dividing the Nuyen amount by 5 work for this as prescribed in one of the old sourcebooks? Or would this be a bad idea?
3.) Actually, I'd better ask about rigid body armor, as well. I know that the PAGST (?) helmets used not even 20 years ago by the military were incapable of stopping direct hits from most rounds, as demonstrated on Box of Truth. What was the NIJ rating of the best rigid body armor from the 80s, and how much would it cost?
4.) If the CIA wanted to sneak some people into Japan, could they do so by quietly and unofficially putting those people on a military transport flight from some part of the US to the US military bases on Okinawa? If so, where would a possible point of departure from the US be for such a flight?
Thanks very much for your kind help as I query the lost wisdom of the ages.
Lazarus
Jun 25 2007, 12:11 AM
1) From the type of campaign that you're running you don't need to worry about body armor so much. I would probably allow only Vest w/ Plates and helmet which adds 1 BAL. The full heavy and all that stuff doesn't exist. I could be wrong but that seems simple. Basically say to your players "Be smart, use cover, ambush well, and try not to get shot."
2) Just convert nuyen into dollars. The prices are about right for the 80's and if they are that way for everyone in your world then the economy will reflect that.
3) Can't answer this one, but I would stay away from heavy body armor. From the campaign you want to run it should be a non-issue.
4) Fake passports, traveling by commercial flight, chartered plane, boat, whatever. Remember this is the 80's so the internet is only around in a very limited form. Most places and agencies still use paper.
The thing about a merc campaign eliminating terrorists for the CIA is that your players have to be covert. They can't storm a place using heavy ordinance unless it's in the middle of nowhere and the world press won't read about it because the US doesn’t assassinate people. <Right.> With this campaign you're going to use local resources to do your mission.
Hope that helps.
Crusher Bob
Jun 25 2007, 06:37 AM
The vest then were mostly rated class II or IIa. The concealable vests were almost invariably IIa. From what I remember, IIa was good against thing like 22, soft nose 38, 25, 32, etc.
The class II vests provided protection against 9mm and 45 but could be defeated by good 357 mag loads.
In the later 80's there were tactical vest available that would stop all pistol rounds and some softpoint/slow rifle rounds, but could still be defeated by 5.56, etc.
[edits]
Looks like the first vest trials were in 1976 or so.
Okinawa flight appears to be: Travis AFB, CA -> Hikam AFB, HI -> Kadena AFB, Okinawa, Japan
[/redits]
Wounded Ronin
Jun 25 2007, 07:15 AM
Thanks for your thoughts and input, Lazarus. It's always nice to be able to bounce certain ideas off of other people when you're writing a campaign. It's one thing if you're writing a fictional story for your own amusement, but with a RPG campaign it's good to get feedback on the plausibility and reasonableness of what you're writing. A RPG campaign which strikes the players as being too implausible isn't a good one.
Crusher, I really appreciate your info. I'm impressed by your knowledge! It helps to build my background knowledge and the backbone of the world I'm trying to create.
hyzmarca
Jun 25 2007, 07:20 AM
It would be logical for a US military flight to Japan to stop off at Hickam AFB and Honolulu Hawaii, though it could originate from anywhere. This is really funny when a bunch of people are being transfered from Alaska and are dressed for Alaskan weather so they sit for hours on a Hawaiian runway on a hot summer afternoon.
CIA agents, however, would probably be given either an Official Cover (a phony civilian diplomatic job and all the credentials that go with it, so that they can pull out immunity if they get caught) or a Non-Official Cover (a phony job with a front corporation that has legitimate business interests in the area). In either instance, they'd go in though normal channels and would appear to be legitimate to anyone who doesn't delve too deeply. A NOC as an American businessman meeting with Japanese clients (in which the agent actually meets with Japanese clients and makes real business deals) would be the best course in order to maintain a viable cover. State Department officials would be under extra scrutiny because the existence of Official Cover agents is both well known and common practice for every country in the world.
The nuyen was to have a 1:1 exchange rate with the modern US dollar (with modern originally being the late 80s), so actually changing it shouldn't be necessary. Of course, the prices were always very wonky.
Link
Jun 25 2007, 01:11 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| The nuyen was to have a 1:1 exchange rate with the modern US dollar (with modern originally being the late 80s), so actually changing it shouldn't be necessary. Of course, the prices were always very wonky. |
Yeah, there's a rule in one of the main books or the SR companion that when bringing in gear not on the list give it it's real $ price in nuyen.
WR, No doubt you know the Norris/Dudikoff movies but for specific "Gaigin visits Japan in the 80's" inspiration see Black Rain and Karate Kid II.
Wounded Ronin
Jun 26 2007, 11:13 PM
This is a timely news article that just came up. It gives some examples of some naughty things the CIA has done domestically and internationally. I think it will help me come up with playable scenarios.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19438161/
Wounded Ronin
Jun 26 2007, 11:22 PM
| QUOTE (Link) |
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | | The nuyen was to have a 1:1 exchange rate with the modern US dollar (with modern originally being the late 80s), so actually changing it shouldn't be necessary. Of course, the prices were always very wonky. |
Yeah, there's a rule in one of the main books or the SR companion that when bringing in gear not on the list give it it's real $ price in nuyen.
WR, No doubt you know the Norris/Dudikoff movies but for specific "Gaigin visits Japan in the 80's" inspiration see Black Rain and Karate Kid II.
|
I can't remember whether or not I've seen Black Rain, but Karate Kid II was legendary. That movie actually made me laugh at the end when the bad guy is holding Ralph Macchio's girlfriend at knifepoint. The bad guy has a balisong, a butterfly knife, even though that's a Phillipino weapon traditionally rather than something that is related to traditional Japanese martial arts. I laughed because I figured that the movie director wanted the bad guy to have something martial artsy but since there were no fancy or special knives that seemed to be appealing out of Okinawan kobudo he decided to go with the balisong instead figuring most viewers wouldn't know the historical background of that weapon.
I also like how Karate Kid III basically pissed all over the premise of Karate Kid II. Karate Kid I and Karate Kid II make sense in terms of progressive character development. In Karate Kid I Daniel is introduced to karate and learns to face his fears. In Karate Kid II Daniel finds himself in even greater dangerous situations in a foreign cultural setting and he needs to not only face his fears but develop his skills and his mental toughness to the point that he can deal with mortal combat, i.e. the bad guy at the end of the film who wants a deathmatch. So far, we have a reasonable character progression. But then Karate Kid III comes along and all of a sudden Daniel is bullied and intimidated by guys who want him to participate in the All Valley (or whatever) Light Contact Karate Youth Tournament so that they can win the title while defeating him.
Think about that. The guy just had his first experience traveling out of the US, which is a stressful thing in terms of cultural adjustment, etc, and he also had dudes trying to kill him, and he was able to deal with that. But when he goes back home having survived that situation he's suddenly all intimidated by people who want to score points on him in a light contact point fighting tournament! It's just a total abdication of intelligent storytelling and character development on the part of the writers. I mean, if anything, the California light contact point fighters who try to bully someone who has experience with mortal combat are the ones who you'd think would end up being very intimidated!
Link
Jun 27 2007, 12:20 AM
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) |
| I can't remember whether or not I've seen Black Rain, but Karate Kid II was legendary. That movie actually made me laugh at the end when the bad guy is holding Ralph Macchio's girlfriend at knifepoint. The bad guy has a balisong, a butterfly knife, even though that's a Phillipino weapon traditionally rather than something that is related to traditional Japanese martial arts. I laughed because I figured that the movie director wanted the bad guy to have something martial artsy but since there were no fancy or special knives that seemed to be appealing out of Okinawan kobudo he decided to go with the balisong instead figuring most viewers wouldn't know the historical background of that weapon. |
I'm afraid I'm one of those viewers
Knowing little of the fighting arts I watch for the athleticism and brutality, like in Ong Bak.
Luckily I can't remember KK III so the magic of the first 2 films is undiminished
I recall Daniel Laruso underwent gender reassignment for KK IV so perhaps KK III has its place in the story arc.
Lazarus
Jun 28 2007, 04:57 AM
There is something else I was thinking about. I would've posted this sooner but I've been unable to access the internet for the last couple of days.
Since you are running a CIA game I don't know where your team stands but it's going to be a lot like running a Special Forces Alternate SR Campaign, unless they are deep cover operatives with minimal contacts. Basically if they need weapons, or especially Intelligence, they can get it from Langley or whoever their contact is.
The Agency is going to give them what they need unlike a regular SR game where everything is really up for grabs.
IMHO anyway.
Side Note: You know that is one thing that has always bugged me with some of the Shadowrun stuff. If you read some of these adventures it's almost as if they set you up to fail but yet still expect you to succeed.
Johnson: Okay we need to rescue Maria Mercurial, but she's in an underground bunker guarded by the a platoon of Aztechnology Jaguars, the best Assassin they got, 4 Blood Mages, a Western Dragon, and an assortment of Paranormal Creatures. Can you do it?
Team Leader: Ahh. Maybe, but we'll need shitload of top line stealth gear and an assload of Intel since going in guns blazing is fraggin' suicide.
Johnson: I've been authorized to give 1,000 nuyen for equipment.
Team Leader: A whole 1000?
Johnson: No, sorry a 1000 each.
Team Leader pulls out his Ares Predator and shoots Johnson in the middle of the forehead splattering his brains on the wall.
Wounded Ronin
Jun 28 2007, 10:47 PM
Lazarus:
One of my original ideas was that the CIA would be able to provide certain weapons but that the PCs would also have the option of attempting to acquire weapons locally if they wanted a little more firepower. In terms of gameplay this would bring into play a SR-esque contacts system which would be valid not so much in terms of which character has which contacts but rather which cities the team has contacts in.
My original idea was to incorporate something of an 80s joke into this where the CIA only gives out beretta 92Fs, and where, using Raygun's rules, loading subsonic 9mm rounds into those pistols for suppression purposes results in a lower Power, but of course that's not set in stone.
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