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The Jopp
Ok, could someone clarify a few points for me because i really dont get it. In SR4 they talk about blank areas with no wi/fi coverage like the barrens but I cant just believe that, not with how the matrix is built up according to SR4 rules – unless we state that commlinks and drones are NOT in fact nodes. The only way to get wi/fi blank areas is to have no nodes in said area – but we have PLENTY of commlinks at 300Y a pop with a basic OS.

As far as I can see each node and commlink according to RAW is a router that can be used to leapfrog to another node, and with several such nodes we have a network.

I can understand that there is no “official? coverage with signal and relay towers for official matrix services, but there is no way that even the barrens is an emty space.

Think about it. Say that a few gangs, squatter communities and other people in the barrens have a commlink and have a slightly boosted signal (3-4). This could be something that the community have worked together to afford and use it to gain access to a network in the barrens.

I could easily see this as something a runner would need access to before they can use it, but once in they could most likely reach a larger matrix node closer to central seattle.

It’s not that there isn’t any matrix access in the barrens, because as long as there are a few hundred cheapo commlinks and a tenth of that in middle range power then you have a network that reach all over the barrens.

And that’s just the open networks that can be accessed by peaceful communities that use it to communicate with each other. After that we have a handful of hidden signals that create their own networks and hidden corporate labs, criminal hideouts and other shadowy elements.

For the average joe the barrens is dark blotch in the matrix but for anyone with a bit of tech savvy the barrens just have their own matrix topography not covered by the regular matrix services.

One just have to find them – which technically ain’t that hard. So, unless you have a commlink with a signal rating of less than 3 then you might be a bit in the dark to find a network close enough, but with 4-5 there isn’t a problem anymore since all you need is to find one measly commlink to connect to, or at least take a free ride on it’s signal to the next node.
Ravor
One of the reasons that I mantain that contrary to the hype, Matrix 2.0 was merely bolted onto Matrix 1.0 and that people's commlinks, clothes, music players, cars, ect do not in fact act as free routers for each other.
The Jopp
That is something that actually sounds more reasonable as it is far more simple to plug in a Wi/fi router into an existing jackpoint and add an antenna to the roof of an office building instead of rebuilding an entire infrastructure.

The wired part of the matrix is simply unused and any wi/fi connection could easily be unplugged and converted to a jackpoint as the “jack? is still there.

The wired world is still there but mainly unused except for hardcore oldtimers or those that only have wired access at their end of the matrix.
bait
Comlinks provide PAN connections not MATRIX connections, the people in the barrens can connect to each other as a PAN connection but there are no MATRIX access points in the barrens.

This is one of the major problems with the layout of the MATRIX 2.0, it didn't explain clearly the difference between PAN connections and MATRIX connections.

PAN connections allow you to connect to other wireless devices, usually used to connect your wireless devices into one network and used to connect to your associates networks.

PAN alone will not allow you access to the MATRIX, in order to access the MATRIX there needs to be an access point thats connected to the MATRIX. ( Or someone in range that is connected to an access point.)

However, there is a nice little device to give your own access point from anywhere you go. Meet your friend the Satellite uplink, this handy little tool will prevent you from suffering from MATRIX withdrawal.

The only drawback to this little toy, well its an access point and everyone loves an unregulated access point. Fire this puppy up in the barrens and your likely to draw the attentions of every heavy hitter in the area. ( So use only when necessary and be prepared for fireworks.)
The Jopp
Well, that was my entire point. You can leapfrog through other peoples PAN and use their signal to access a wireless matrix connection.

I cant agree on the satellite uplink as that would essentially be a basic satellite dish and Im fairly certain many people use it since it is cheap – it’s the access to what satellites that might concern powerful people – and that can be hard to find out as a satellite uplink in say glow city might be the local matrix connection to a regular matrix uplink satellite.

If on the other hand someone finds out that it IS used for clandestine use of a satellite that would be restricted…
bait
QUOTE
  Well, that was my entire point. You can leapfrog through other peoples PAN and use their signal to access a wireless matrix connection.


The problem is in areas like the Barrens where no one is in range of a public access point.

QUOTE
I cant agree on the satellite uplink as that would essentially be a basic satellite dish and Im fairly certain many people use it since it is cheap – it’s the access to what satellites that might concern powerful people – and that can be hard to find out as a satellite uplink in say glow city might be the local matrix connection to a regular matrix uplink satellite.

If on the other hand someone finds out that it IS used for clandestine use of a satellite that would be restricted…


Satellite uplinks are only for areas where a MATRIX access point is unavailable. ( Like most of the barrens.) As its far cheaper to use MATRIX access points.

Its also not as cheap as you think, the ave barrens dweller isn't going to be able to afford it. ( Most are living street or squatter lifestyles.)

As for sat access, the powerful people don't offer MATRIX access for there grids. ( Those have there own network.)
Demonseed Elite
You're also assuming everyone has wide open PANs in the Barrens. Gangs may have ad-hoc networks, but considering they use them for criminal activity, I doubt they leave them wide open. Similarly, squatter communities may have ad-hoc networks too, but squatter communities are very inclusive and look after themselves, not every guttertrash punk in the Barrens.

There are certainly ways to leapfrog through PANs to a pirated Matrix access point, but the people who control those points don't usually let just anyone hop on in.
The Jopp
QUOTE (bait)
The problem is in areas like the Barrens where no one is in range of a public access point.

Not quite true - SOMEONE must be in range of a matrix connection, but only at the edges.

Since you can leapfrog through peoples PAN until you reach a public matrix connection (well, within signal reach anyway). If you have person A bouncing through PAN’s all the way from the outermost edge of the barrens towards the end of Redmond where there is some kind of matrix connection at location Z.

He bounces from Squatter D’s local PAN who’s the resident squatter hacker with a rating 4 signal commlink, the communitys pride and joy and then further to glow city and their little network of 4 PAN’s with one rating 3 signal. From there he goes to a fixed jackpoint with a simple antenna at rating 4. He then ends up a few miles closer due to an old fiberoptic cable at a rating 3 antenna that projects him to a gangs local communications shack with a commlink and improved radio antenna. It becomes like a connect the dots of PAN’s until you reach the goal, a public matrix access.

THEN Person A reach the matrix.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
There are certainly ways to leapfrog through PANs to a pirated Matrix access point, but the people who control those points don't usually let just anyone hop on in.

Oh, i fully agree, but that's the job for the teams hacker, im just saying that the wireless over the barrens isn't as dark and silent as they say, one just have to look a little harder.
Demonseed Elite
Yeah, usually they are dead zones as far as any public Matrix access goes. If you have an in with an ad-hoc network or you hack your way into one, you can get access in many places where the average citizen (or in this case, SINless) can't.

As usual, the rule of the game is not to get caught. The local gang might not take too kindly to a hacker roaming in their network.
savantt
Plus, in this situation, its pobably better to remeber that Cities are much bigger in 2070...

Sure you might be able to jump from PAN to PAN untill you get to the edge of the Wired Zone, but this distances involved could be miles...and even with this amount of tech the amount of lag and signal degredation would be enormous.

Factor in the fact that the Matrix 2.0 really isn't that old, and many of the Squatters/Homeless with basic commlinks would either be using severly outdated equipment with cheap or illegal OS, equipment cobbled together from bits and bobs which lack major components (reciever, for example), equipment lousey with viruses or even relics that still rely on a wired connection (and thus get by with no connection) the chances of getting from the middle of the barrens to a wired zone are slim at best. Then there are old manufacturing districs, abandoned warehouse areas, old parks/car parks and so forth which really would have very few commed-up people in them which could act as a block, either adding to the distance weaving your way through, or having to go around...

There are a load of variables that could scupper you...

Of course I'd probably allow the hacker/technomancer to try to trace a link, but for any form of communication that requires two way travel, impose a SEVERE dice penalty, not to mention make a roll every time to see if what comes back is readable or too far corrupted...
bibliophile20
Which is why my player who's playing a hacker wisely invested in a satellite uplink; no worries at that point.
Redjack
QUOTE (The Jopp)
Well, that was my entire point. You can leapfrog through other peoples PAN and use their signal to access a wireless matrix connection.

Read up on "Man in the Middle" attacks. You will then understand why you want a provider access point instead of bouncing off Tom's PAN.
Demon_Bob
Then there is the question of how much traffic a PAN can handle.
5000 people can't realistically all axcess the Matrix through a series of low grade Comms strung together to end up at one guy with Matrix axcess. His Comm-link is now acting as a router for 5000 different people and, however good it might be, it still has limits. Axcessing the 2070 matrix at dial-up speeds would suck.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (bibliophile20)
Which is why my player who's playing a hacker wisely invested in a satellite uplink; no worries at that point.

Question in 2070 all those wireless satellites are just sitting up there for any wireless lug to access and use, because he has a satellite uplink to beam his signal up there?

Unless the attempting user has the correct access the satellite will need to be hacked, at least in my point of view.

WMS
The Jopp
QUOTE (WearzManySkins)


Unless the attempting user has the correct access the satellite will need to be hacked, at least in my point of view.

Agree fully but also remember that the satellite uplink might just be to connect to low flying satellites that are part of the matrix grid. Would probably be enough to spoof access in the same way as you spoof your matrix id.

I would bet that you would get access to the satellite matrix connection but not actual connection to the satellite controls.

I can very well imagine that any kind of satellite uplink would get the “F? availability and tightly monitored if anyone could gain access and control of actual satellites control systems.

Most likely the ONLY satellites one can gain access to would be matrix connected satellites and you probably get access codes to them with the satellite link when you buy it.

Now, finding out the location, orbit and timetable for any other satellite might land you in a new world of hurt, I imagine that Ares or Renraku would not take kindly to someone accessing THEIR satellites that are not part of the regular matrix network…
bait
Remember that a good portion of satellites are part of the public access for the MATRIX to avoid another crash. They act like the standard MATRIX wireless access points.

PANS are limited to System x2 connections , wireless access points have no such limit.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (bait)
Remember that a good portion of satellites are part of the public access for the MATRIX to avoid another crash. They act like the standard MATRIX wireless access points.

PANS are limited to System x2 connections , wireless access points have no such limit.

Interesting care to site the source for that comment?

OK if so who pays to put up the satellites, and who does the maintenance on the sats then?

Someone had to front the money, unless it is a government it will not be public access, even then governments will need a return on their investment.

FYI the last crash was a Developer mechanic, so it will not stand too much looking at to see the many tattered holes. biggrin.gif
Demon_Bob
QUOTE (WearzManySkins)
Question in 2070 all those wireless satellites are just sitting up there for any wireless lug to access and use, because he has a satellite uplink to beam his signal up there?

Unless the attempting user has the correct access the satellite will need to be hacked, at least in my point of view.

WMS

I figure that they would need to pay a small monthly service fee. Other than that it would be like having a satellite phone.
kzt
QUOTE (Demon_Bob)

I figure that they would need to pay a small monthly service fee. Other than that it would be like having a satellite phone.

And as the late Chechen President Dzhokar Dudayev found, that has some minor drawbacks too.
bait
QUOTE
OK if so who pays to put up the satellites, and who does the maintenance on the sats then?

Someone had to front the money, unless it is a government it will not be public access, even then governments will need a return on their investment.


First, Corps do public works. ( When its in there interest to do so.)

Second, just because its public access doesn't mean its free. ( Taxes and service fees.)

If satellites were restricted then a Sat link would at the very least be a restricted legality. ( Also note the availability is 4.)
Ravor
Not really, there is a difference between being illegal and being useless without being a paying subscriber.

Besides, is Matrix Access really free to the public or is the Matrix Service Provider fee just assumed to be part of your lifestyle cost?
bait
QUOTE
Matrix Service Provider fee just assumed to be part of your lifestyle cost?


If your a Sinner, bingo. ( Another good reason to invest in fake SIN.)

Otherwise, even the most basic attempts to use the MATRIX will require a break in attempt.

This also explains why the barrens has no public MATRIX access, the rest attempt to hack into the corp zones MATRIX access or use Sat links. ( Not many Sinners in the barrens.)
The Jopp
QUOTE (bait @ Jun 28 2007, 07:41 AM)

If your a Sinner, bingo. ( Another good reason to invest in fake SIN.)

Otherwise, even the most basic attempts to use the MATRIX will require a break in attempt.

This is also why most runners make a Spoofed Access ID, effectively creating a fake Matrix Connection that appears legal but is not tied to a real subscriber.

It might not be in a runners best interest to log in with the subscription connected to their fake sin - most SINless joe shmoe on the other hand would most likely use their fake sin.
bait
QUOTE
It might not be in a runners best interest to log in with the subscription connected to their fake sin - most SINless joe shmoe on the other hand would most likely use their fake sin.


Runners also have down time, and have a life outside shadow runs. smile.gif
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