Hello, I do have some new questions regarding the rules concerning spirits.

The core rule book states that all spirits (I presume this includes ally spirits as well, right?) have a special telepathic link that allows them to communicate over a distance.

But how far does it go? Could I communicate telepathically with a spirit on the other side of the globe, chit-chatting with it about various non-sense?

Also, the sense link power that ally spirits receive automatically, does it function in the very same way as the one meant for a bonded animal? Is it two-ways? Meaning, can the ally spirit feel the exact same things that its summoner does when in range? Does it also have to test on damage if the summoner gets hurt? Will the summoner have to test for damage?

Thank you in advance.

Opinion, but if the spirit is beyond magic * 100 meters it is on Remote Service, and is technically released, and thus this is the point at which the telepathic link may longer apply.

Well, according to the FAQ.

Yes, you can telepathically communicate with a bound spirit at an unlimited range. Evo magicians use this trick to send verbal messages to and from Mars instantaneously (they leave bound spirits on Earth and then the magician goes to the Mars base, they canj still talk).

-Frank

What? Even beyond the Gaiasphere? Where is this information about the Evo magicians written about?

I think Frank's being facetious trying to illustrate that he disagrees with the instantaneous communication between spirit and summoner.

Not exactly. I don't have strong feelings about it, but as written, that would work. And since it would work, Evo would have to be a bunch of god damned idiots to not do it. The information density would be low (much lower than wifi downloads), but the fact that you could send simple messages at the speed it takes to say them would make it potentially invaluable.

As to it being "through" a lack of gaiasphere - that's not even an issue. It's instantaneous and non-directional, which means that it probably works through Quantum Entanglement which of course does not travel through intervening space at all. It merely requires the space at both ends to be predictable (or in this case, to have a viable manasphere).

That's the basic book's seeming take on it, so the spirit chapter in Street Magic was written under that assumption.

-Frank

Well, the Evo on Mars would be affected by the background count of the rating 9 void from being offearth without a gaiasphere. (See the casting on the moon example on p120 in Street Magic.) The communication may be instantaneous, but it might still be garbled. Doesn't matter whether the message "passes through" any space, it still originates in a void.

The surface of Mars is not a void though.

-Frank

I rather doubt the writers thought much about this. Hence the FAQ guys thing, which is as good as anything. In which case the void would mess up the space communication.

Plus they never say it's instantanious. They just treat it that way. Same as they do bullets. Also I'm pretty sure they're on the fence about whether quantum entanglement can actually be used to transmit information. (You can measure one thing to collapse the quantum state of the other, but that isn't so useful, you'd have to be able to somehow control what state the other system collapses into in order to send a message, and that might not be possible). At any rate that's another topic for another board.

That's actually quite enlightening.

So if there is a bit of hedging, oddness, or ambiguity in the rules/FAQ it isn't neccesarily indicitive that something wasn't discussed at length. But rather that it was a point of contention and the decision was more or less to let the GM sort it out.

For example in another thread we were arguing over exactly when a machine spirit's diagnostic power applied, for example to a smartlink. So I shouldn't think, neccesarily, that the writers/playtesters never thought about it in great detail, but perhapse that they decided to just leave it ambiguous for GMs to do with as they will if it comes up.

I suppose a little ambiguity also keeps the pagecount down.


Back on topic how does using the telepathic link work with services. It would appear. "go somewhere and repeat everything I say while sending me everything they say" is just one thing. But since spirits on remote service are released you couldn't tell them to change the parameters (i.e. they moved the speech to conference room C, you need to go there).

And any parameter change with a non-remote spirit would burn through tasks. So you couldn't "rig" a spirit very well.

Wait, maybe I need to re-read the bit on ally spirits. Maybe you can have bunker mages.

The diagnostics discussion is an open one because it is a known fact that a bunch of sections of the Mtrix rules are going to be overhauled - which necessarily will include sprites and their abilities. So there's a palpable feeling that saying pretty much anything is potentially going to be contradicted later on.

So basically you could read the diagnostics power as saying that you get bonus dice on using a device with respect to itself, or that you get bonus dice on using a device for what it is for. In the former case, one would be limited to using the bonus dice to loop footage or erase files or whatever, and in the latter reading you could bust out a medkit or smartlinked weapon and get bonus dice for performing actions in the real physical world.

Either reading is perfectly plausible, and as I understand it, some of the authors and playtester groups genuinely thought it was one or the other. In Unwired, someone is going to have to make a final ruling one way or the other in the Sprite services example, but I don't know who is going to be writing that. Things said can't be unsaid, so personally I'm leaving that question unanswered until it is actually decided who is going to make the final call (which should hopefully be based on game balance considerations with respect to a revised Technomancer cost structure so that they aren't so #$%^ing Karma expensive).

So yeah, you aren't getting a hard and fast answer on that one out of me. You're not getting it from Ancient History, Demonseed Elite, Peter, or even Rob. Not until there's a playtestable Unwired draft and an answer that can be given.

-Frank

Oop you postd while I was editing above. I thought I could sneak it in instead of double posting.

And while I do think TMs have some godly abilities I do agree with you it would play a lot better if they were cheaper.

Maybe limit their powers in some way other than BP?

Good luck with that.

Have you ever thought about writing up the metainfo you have on the book? That could save us some bickering around here.

Well the trick of that is that game balance arguments largely depend on other things staying the same. For example as it is now if I can't even manage to pee straight for having to put all my BP into TM stuff having drones O' doom is only fair.


If they take your advice and provide some refreshing BP relief things would be very different. But maybe diagnostics should still be usable and the whole "control" ridiculousness should be worked out instead. That would actually be my take on the matter.

i.e. instead of rolling 12(control)+6 (gunnery+spec)+7 (multi roll diagnostics)+2 (matrix bonus)+2(smartlink)=29 die on the shot from the safety of your own comlink, you'd have to jump in and use sensors instead, risk taking damage if the drone gets hit, and risk dumpshock if it gets shot down.

But again I don't think that'd be really fair without some BP relief.

And what about the sense link power? How does it function, when a spirit is involved, instead an animal? It's after all the ally spirit that gets it, not the summoner. But does he still follow the same rule as the adept, or does only the ally spirit feel all these things?

Does the ally spirit have to take a damage test if the conjurer gets hurt too, vice versa as the adept has to roll on a damage test if the bonded animal gets hurt?

I do guess that the conjurer will likewise also have to roll for damage if his ally spirit gets hurt when near enough, right?

The Sense Link is optional. If you are using the spirit's senses and the spirit takes damage, then yes you will have to resist feedback damage yourself. It's not automatic damage every time the spirit is damaged while within range, it's just when you are borrowing their point of view.

-Frank

And what about the spirit? Does he have to roll damage when his senses are connected with you? Same goes for the animal.