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AngelisStorm
Heya all.

Do weapons mounted on vehicles suffer from recoil when they're fired? (The jeep with the LMG mounted in the back, or the spy car with the SMG near the headlight.)

And on a related question, how does that relate to drones? Do drones take recoil when a weapon mounted on them is fired? (I know there is another topic currently discussing this, and I am keeping an eye on it.)

The other question I had this evening involved SINS. It says that when a SIN is checked, the rating of the system checking is rolled against the rating of the SIN. I was hoping for some opinions on system ratings.

The bouncer at the club (RL: I was disturbed recently when a bouncer used a handheld box to check if my drivers license was real)
The cop who just pulled you over.
Border patrol (when your crossing)
Forensics, when your sitting in holding.
And any other common examples you might feel like throwing in.

One of my players wanted to know how long a rating 6 SIN would hold up against Lone Star if he got arrested.

Thanks everyone.
Jack Kain
I'd treat a gun mounted on the back of a jeep as being mounted on a bipod, ie 2 points of recoil compensation.
kzt
QUOTE (AngelisStorm)
I was hoping for some opinions on system ratings.

The bouncer at the club (RL: I was disturbed recently when a bouncer used a handheld box to check if my drivers license was real)
The cop who just pulled you over.
Border patrol (when your crossing)
Forensics, when your sitting in holding.
And any other common examples you might feel like throwing in.

One of my players wanted to know how long a rating 6 SIN would hold up against Lone Star if he got arrested.

My opinion:

1) Level 1 if they don't care. Up to level 4 if they really care. Of course, if you look 30 they probably are going to wave you in if they are just worried about alcohol laws.

2) Level 2 to 6 depending on how well connected the cops are. Getting stopped in the UCAS by the "FBI" with a UCAS SIN will tend to be a lot tougher than a rural cop in Athabasca against a fake UCAS SIN.

3) Level 6, but customs and border guys often don't even look and just wave you past if you look ok to them. I'd give them a 5 perception skill (they do this for a living). If they don't think you are a terrorist, lying or hiding something, they typically wave you past. If they check and your SIN shows good but they still think you look like a skank they get to strip search you, take your car and luggage apart, etc. So they get to try again, assuming they don't find the hand grenades in the fuel tank. That gets you a trip to jail and they get to try again with a higher rating.

4) Level 4 - 10. Don't get caught by SK in Frankfurt on an SK SIN and locked up, etc. National governments, well connected local megacorps are really bad, big cities are not good, small rural lockups are not too bad.

Don't get caught, and don't turn a ticket for a bad tailight into a trip to jail.

I'd argue that if it passes two checks at a level 6 - 8 you they are probably not going to blow the ID ever. Unless they are really interested in you. If you have created so much heat that they start heavily checking your backstory, like calling your cousins, visiting the place you claimed to live two years ago and talking to the landlord and neighbors, and finding your high-school teachers and showing them your picture things are going to go badly.

So if you are by some miracle taken alive after shooting 8 cops you are toast. They get you for knocking off the Stop'N'Rob without anyone getting killed it's probably not so bad.
sunnyside
Rules don't cover it at the moment. Bipod is as good as anything. But I wouldn't apply that to drones.


As for ratings I think the only published thing on the matter is this from missions.

QUOTE

To quickly simulate a border crossing [in denver],
have all characters make a quick test of
Fake SIN Rating + Charisma + Etiquette.
Threshold on the test is TR/2 (round-up).
On a failure, the PC will need to pay a 300Â¥
bribe to get across safely. If the PC glitches,
the passage ends up taking longer than
intended, and the character needs to spend
300Â¥ on a bribe. On a critical glitch, the PC
loses one piece of forbidden or restricted
gear, and must spend 500Â¥ on a bribe.
If the whole party is attempting to cross
as a group, use a Teamwork test (SR4 p59)
for the border crossing. In the event of a
glitch or critical glitch, all players will suffer
the previously mentioned consequences.


TR referse to "table rating" which goes up as the players karma goes up. The above test is pretty trivial.

Personally I vary the rating not just based on who is doing it, but how much they really care, based on the idea that the better verification schemes take more time and have to bother with collecting things like biometric data. There may also be some cost associated with doing a thorough check, much as there is today, though not as much. So if you stay polite and don't raise any eyebrows I keep the ratings lower (this also helps keep charisma and ettiquite from being ignored by the non faces).

Typically you'll want to save rating 5 and 6 scanners for cases where the characters are in some trouble, or the situation is one where they really want to know and would pay for it, as those ratings have a rather reasonable chance of blowing the chars cover.

Most places like a bar and such just want to get their money without much cost. So having lots of rating ones (unless they do something to make someone suspicious) is appropriate. Remember that a rating 3 or 4 stick is still supposed to be useful and they'll get one or no hits all to often.
Cheops
Usually in our games the ID check is just to see if you have one. I've had the cops pull team members over frequently because they turned off their commlink and weren't broadcasting a SIN anymore.

The only time it really mattered they'd just got into a firefight with another team and were about to make a getaway in a car that wasn't broadcasting. Gridguide reported to the cops that an unidentified vehicle was at the scene so the cops immediately stopped and arrested them. Took them back to lock up, used a rating 6 scanner and they got lucky on the tests. Ended up with no charges being laid except for a few fines for illegal conceal/carry and the PCs buying licenses.

Remember that anything that has Access to a device can use that device as long as there is a connection path to that node. So cops can always check against that rating 6 scanner back at precinct but it might take a while before their turn in line comes up. Same goes for just about anywhere. Even a club could just pay a set monthly fee and have unlimited access to use the scanner. It honestly comes down to how hardcore you want the ID checks to be.
odinson
QUOTE (kzt)
3) Level 6, but customs and border guys often don't even look and just wave you past if you look ok to them. I'd give them a 5 perception skill (they do this for a living). If they don't think you are a terrorist, lying or hiding something, they typically wave you past. If they check and your SIN shows good but they still think you look like a skank they get to strip search you, take your car and luggage apart, etc. So they get to try again, assuming they don't find the hand grenades in the fuel tank. That gets you a trip to jail and they get to try again with a higher rating.

What place just waves you through? Where have you been traveling? Any plane trip I've been on recently has had multiple security checkpoints. Th airports in america you go through metal detectors and go through checkpoints where you have to show your passport. With the simplicity of checking ID's in SR I'd guess that everyones sin goes through a checker. Mexico has random searches. You press a button if you get a green light you go through and if you get the red light they physically search through your stuff.

I'd say going through customs in an airport would really tough. You would have to go through a MAD scanner, probably a high rating one, there would probably be a cyberware scanner also, your SIN would go through a high level ID check, and you would be subject to random searches.

Border crossings are completely different. They would probably get to roll judge intentions, If they beat you in the opposed test they would physically search your vehicle. Your SINs would also be scanned in the identity check. The rating would depend on the country and how often the road is traveled.
CyberKender
QUOTE (AngelisStorm)
Heya all.

Do weapons mounted on vehicles suffer from recoil when they're fired? (The jeep with the LMG mounted in the back, or the spy car with the SMG near the headlight.)

And on a related question, how does that relate to drones? Do drones take recoil when a weapon mounted on them is fired? (I know there is another topic currently discussing this, and I am keeping an eye on it.)

Since they did in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Ed., I would say yes, they still do.
If memory serves, any hardpoint (drone or vehicle) provided 2 points of recoil comp. The LMG in the Jeep example uses a pintle mount, but I don't recall if that provided different recoil comp than a regular hardpoint. The idea of using the bipod rules sounds good to me until something more formal come around.
Wakshaani
For SINs, I use a kinda vague set of guidelines.

Rating 1 will get you into motels that don't look at their clients very much or the Stuffer Shack ... basicly, if you have money in your acount, they don't really care, so, you can get by, pay rent in a low end area, and so on.

Rating 2 is the minimum to get anything that's Restricted... level 1 can't hold up under that. Level 2 will also get past the handheld/carmounted system that Lone Star has. Well, most of the time.

Rating 3 will get you inside an enclosed area, such as a corporate gated community. You could live a Middle Class life under a rating 3 and escape notice, as long as you didn't do anything too stupid.

Rating 4 will usually get you past a checkup in a LoneStar precinct house, as long as you're not up for something serious, like murder. If you need to check in, sign your name, and bail out a buddy, you should be nervous, but, it should hold.

Rating 5 will let you live a High life, getting past improved corporate security and even giving federal systems some trouble. A rating 3 migt fool teh FBI's portable scanners, but, a rating 5 is where you need to be if the IRS starts digging in.

Rating 6 might as well be a real SIN. Outside of, say, SK Prime's HQ, nobody'll break it.

Most disposa-fakes are 1's, with 2's for longer term use. 3+ only gets pulled out when you have to go low for a long time and can't hide in the slums.

But, that's just me.
AngelisStorm
Cool, thanks everyone. That gives me some guidelines on RC.

Wakshaani: one of my players, who is our other GM, uses similar guidelines. I appreciate the imput though, since I haven't really decided which way to go with it. So far I've been using a rule-of-thumb system similar to yours, and only rolling if it's really important.

Also thanks everyone else. It's really interesting to see how people treat fake ID's differently. Definitely food for though. I appreciate it.
kzt
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
Rating 6 might as well be a real SIN. Outside of, say, SK Prime's HQ, nobody'll break it.

The drawback of the typical Fake ID (outside of ones created by intelligence agencies, etc) is that there is no there there. So they can always be broken with some legwork, no matter how good the electronic background is.

When they call your mother, who answers the phone? What does your supervisor say when they call him at work? Does the company pay record match your bank records? If they show your boss three photos, can he pick you out? Does you DNA show you are related to the rest of your family? Will they recognize a picture of you? Does your travel, commlink call logs and spending trail match up with your ID? Does it look like you really live at your residence? Whose DNA/fingerprints are there? Does your commlink call records match up with your timecard/call logs at work? Does your car autonav records match the gridlink records and fit with everything else? Does the odometer, service history and tire condition match the your ID?
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