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ShadowDragon8685
Knight, the bane of my ass rigger.

Human mundane,

Attributes:
Body 1
Agility 3
Reaction 5
Strength 1
Charisma 2
Intuition 5
Logic 5
Willpower 2
Edge 8
Initiative 10
Essence: 3.5.

By my count, this should come out to... 225? (That's 25 points over 1/2, is it not?)

Note: He is asserting that as Edge is neither physical and mental, that Edge is not counted under the "no more than 1/2 of points may be spent on attributes". Is this a correct or incorrect interpretation on his part?


Active skills:
Cracking group 4
Electronics group 3
Mechanic group 2
Pilot Anthroform (Remote Operation) 5
Gunnery (Ballistic) 4
Pilot Aircraft 1

That adds up to 134, does it not? The Knowledge skills I'm not going to sweat.

PosiQualities:

Lucky! (20)

Negative qualities taken:
Elf Poser (-5)
Infirm (-20)
Allergy Common/mild (-10)

Total: -15

Equipment

Cyberware:
Wired Reflexes 1 ( 11,000 nuyen.gif )
Control Rig (10,000 nuyen.gif )

Cost Cyberware: 22,000

Weapons:...

Stoner Ares M202x6 (4500x6x2 (Smartgunlink)) 54,000
Walter MA-2100 (x2 cost Smartgunlink) 10,000
Aztechnology Strikerx2 2,000

Cost weapons: 66,000

Gyro Stabilizationx6 18,000
Smart Firing Platformx2 2,000
Smartgun System, Internalx7 0 (factored in to weapon cost)
Sound Suppressorx4 1,200
Imaging Scopex4 1,200
Gas Vent 2 Systemx6 1,200
2,000 rounds EX-EX 20,000
100 Tracer rounds 750
200 Gel rounds 600

Cost weapon-gear: 44,950

Vehicles:
Chrysler-Nissan Patrol-1 27,000
Steel Lynx x7 35,000
Aztechnology Crawler x2 3,400
Shiawase Kanmushi 1,000
S-B Microskimmer x2 2,000

Cost Vehicles: 65,000

Melee Weapons:
Monofilament Whip: 3,000
Customized Chain-claws (Monoedged chainsaw) 2,500

Cost Melee Weapons: 5,500

Equipment:
Certified Credstick (Platinum) 25
Certified Credstick (Gold) x4 100
Certified Credstick (Ebony) 25
Myomer Rope (10 m) 100
Shop 5,000
Micro Flare Launcher 50
Micro Flares x3 45
Microwire (200 m) 100
Medkit Supplies x16 800 (No medkit???)
Survival Kit x4 400
Flashlight x10 250
Virtual Person 100

Cost Equipment: 6995

Enhancements for drones

Vision Enhancement (Rating 3) x3 13,500
Vision Magnification x3 3,000
Atmosphere Sensor (Rating 1) 25
Camera x2 200
Atmosphere Sensor (Rating 3) x2 75
Cyberware Scanner (Rating 6) 450
Directional Microphone x2 100
Geiger Counter 50
Laser Microphone (Rating 3) x2 200
Laser Microphone (Rating 6) 300
Microphone x2 100
Motion Sensor x2 100
Olfactory Sensor (Rating 6) 1,500
Radio Signal Scanner (Rating 6) 150

Cost Enhancements for Drones: 19,750



Commlink and programs:

Commlink : Fairlight Caliban 8,000 (Where's the Operating System???)
System (Rating 6) 3,000
Firewall (Rating 6) 3,000

sub-Cost Commlink: 14,000

Analyze (Rating 6) 600
Encrypt (Rating 6) 600
Black Hammer (Rating 6) 6,000
Reality Filter (Rating 6) 600
Scan (Rating 6) 600
Armor (Rating 6) 6,000
Attack (Rating 6) 6,000
Data Bomb (Rating 6) 6,000
ECCM (Rating 6) 6,000
Exploit (Rating 6) 6,000
Track (Rating 6) 6,000
Agent/IC/Pilot (Rating 3) 3,000
Biofeedback Filters (Rating 4) 4,000

sub-Cost Programs: 51,400


Clearsight Autosoft (Rating 6) 3,000
Defense Autosoft (Rating 6) 3,000
Electronic Warfare Autosoft (Rating 6) 3,000
Maneuver (Vehicle Type) Autosoft (Rating 6) 3,000
Targeting (Weapon) Autosoft (Rating 6) 3,000

sub-Cost Riggerstuff: 15,000

Mapsoft (Rating 6) 30
Pilot (Rating 4) 10,000

sub-Cost Other Stuff 10,030

Cost Electronica: 90,430

sub-Total Nuyen Cost: 320,125 nuyen.gif
-8,500 nuyen.gif (Starting cash and loot from runs)

Total Nuyen Cost: 311,625
Dosen't this:
A: Have a point cost of 62?
B: Exceed the maximum allowance for a chargen character?


Contacts:
Caliban: L4, C6: 10 points
Doc Holiday: L4, C2, 6 points
Jinx: L5, C4: 9 points

Contacts: 25 points

Points total: 431?

Am I wrong here? Is this character even remotely legal?

Is this "One little mistake!", or is the wool being pulled over my eyes? I don't like to accuse a player of cheating, but Jtuxyan has a history of making these "little mistakes", to the point that another DM made him level his D&D character, from 1-12, with him, level-by-level......

I dunno.... Please tell me I've made some grevious error and this is all perfectly right.
Cain
QUOTE
Note: He is asserting that as Edge is neither physical and mental, that Edge is not counted under the "no more than 1/2 of points may be spent on attributes". Is this a correct or incorrect interpretation on his part?

Unfortunately for you, he is correct. I'll go over the sheet in more detail later.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Cain)
QUOTE
Note: He is asserting that as Edge is neither physical and mental, that Edge is not counted under the "no more than 1/2 of points may be spent on attributes". Is this a correct or incorrect interpretation on his part?

Unfortunately for you, he is correct. I'll go over the sheet in more detail later.

Okay, that's great. So it's basically 75 loose points. Groovy.

That makes him at....

160 points for stats, and 75 for Karma, right?
Aku
will grab my book, but the edge thing sounds right, based on one of the characters the book builds, i think... will edit when i check it...


also, if i's a quad, WHY does he have wired reflexes? o better, HOW?
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Aku)
will grab my book, but the edge thing sounds right, based on one of the characters the book builds, i think... will edit when i check it...


also, if i's a quad, WHY does he have wired reflexes? o better, HOW?

Cybercombat initiative and rigging initiative, unless I miss my guess.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
Knight, the bane of my ass rigger.

The only ass here is you.

Sorry, but publishing foreign characters without consent is not only basically copyright infringement - but a major violation of Player-Gamemaster trust. Especially if all you want is the character to be dissected.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jul 5 2007, 12:05 AM)
Knight, the bane of my ass rigger.

The only ass here is you.

Sorry, but publishing foreign characters without consent is not only basically copyright infringement - but a major violation of Player-Gamemaster trust. Especially if all you want is the character to be dissected.

I'm sorry, a character submitted to my game may be republished by me or any others at will for any non-comercial purposes, explicitly including but not limited to: Chargen-legality checking, serving as an example of how to (or how not to) build your character for others, and simply plain for rules clarifications.


As well, I'll note that the player in question has outright challenged me to post his character, claiming and swearing up and down that it was 400 points, and perfectly legal. So in effect, Rotbart, you're wrong on all counts.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
I'm sorry, a character submitted to my game may be republished by me or any others at will for any non-comercial purposes, explicitly including but not limited to: Chargen-legality checking, serving as an example of how to (or how not to) build your character for others, and simply plain for rules clarifications.

Got his written acceptance to those terms? No? Thought so. nyahnyah.gif

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
As well, I'll note that the player in question has outright challenged me to post his character, claiming and swearing up and down that it was 400 points, and perfectly legal.

Nothing in your post states so - and considering you latest rampage, until hearing otherwise from him, all I see is a personal conflict spiraling out of control, into a public board.
Naysayer
If you ask me, no matter if his sheet is clean as fairy poo or fishy as garden pond, I think you and your rigger got some OC-issues that you should address.
Preferably, face-to-face.

Because right now, it looks like you're waging a personal vendetta here...


ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)



QUOTE (Rotbart van danig)
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
I'm sorry, a character submitted to my game may be republished by me or any others at will for any non-comercial purposes, explicitly including but not limited to: Chargen-legality checking, serving as an example of how to (or how not to) build your character for others, and simply plain for rules clarifications.

Got his written acceptance to those terms? No? Thought so. nyahnyah.gif


Written acceptance is unnessary, as merely submitting a character sheet with the intention to play that character constitutes acceptance.


QUOTE
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
As well, I'll note that the player in question has outright challenged me to post his character, claiming and swearing up and down that it was 400 points, and perfectly legal.

Nothing in your post states so - and considering you latest rampage, until hearing otherwise from him, all I see is a personal conflict spiraling out of control, into a public board.


Would you like me to find a suitably position-supporting excerpt from our private conversations and likewise splash it all over the forums? Because unlike him, I don't actually violate private conversations like that, so sorry.
Cain
QUOTE
By my count, this should come out to... 225? (That's 25 points over 1/2, is it not?)

160 excluding Edge. However, 235 including it.
QUOTE
That adds up to 134, does it not? The Knowledge skills I'm not going to sweat.

That's what I get as well. Total of 369.
Edges/Flaws: -15. Total of 354.

QUOTE

Total Nuyen Cost: 311,625
Dosen't this:
A: Have a point cost of 62?
B: Exceed the maximum allowance for a chargen character?

I'm not going to recheck every item. I get a final cost of 312,395 nuyen.gif, which also equals 62 points. And yes, that exceeds the cap by 12 points.

Total BP: 412.

QUOTE
Contacts: 25 points

Points total: 431?

441 is what I get.

It's possible that he missed the gear cap, so I wouldn't sweat the 62 BP on gear, although I would make him rewrite the character minus about 60,000 worth of gear. And it's possible that he forgot that the top point of Edge costs 25, not 10. That leaves a net overage of 26 points, though, which is a lot.

Bottom line: he has to rewrite the character. Next time, post it here before you approve it, and we'll tear it apart for you.

[edit]I also don't see any Rigger adpatation for his passenger vehicles, although there's some debate as to rather or not passenger vehicles with a Pilot (e.g., all of them) need it at all. That's going to be a house call, though.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
Written acceptance is unnessary, as merely submitting a character sheet with the intention to play that character constitutes acceptance.

Indeed - but it's hard to prove that these terms were even known to him, so this is a moot point.

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
Would you like me to find a suitably position-supporting excerpt from our private conversations and likewise splash it all over the forums?

You did enough by labeling him a munchkin several times (and asking for help gimping him), long before that, thanks.
ShadowDragon8685
Assuming I don't just dismiss the group after this.

What a headache.
Ddays
What the hell are the drones using? I thought wep mounts peak out at LMG, and Stoner is a Medium Machine gun. Hell, he has rocket launchers in there as well.

Not to mention all the smart weapons, do drones even have automatic smartlink?
Aku
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jul 4 2007, 05:13 PM)
QUOTE (Aku @ Jul 4 2007, 06:13 PM)
will grab my book, but the edge thing sounds right, based on one of the characters the book builds, i think... will edit when i check it...


also, if i's a quad, WHY does he have wired reflexes? o better, HOW?

Cybercombat initiative and rigging initiative, unless I miss my guess.

well, based on my math (which assumes your math was right for the costs per set, but it does add up to 431.

now i dont agree that this character should be able to use wired reflexes in the first place but it is what it is.

edit: forgot the contacts, but either way it's over
ShadowDragon8685
I don't honestly know!

That's my problem. (I forgot about the LMG thing, too).

I don't know what the hell he's doing, and up until now I've just been trusting him to roll the correct dice and tell me what he was capable of!
Adarael
Posting a character sheet in no way violates copyright, ever. A sheet is a collection of numbers; it has not been created by the player save through the auspices of the game. The character itself - the ephemeral nothing of it (personality quirks, abilities, history, et cetera) are arguably copyrighted. However, a collection of numbers on a sheet are no more copyrighted to the physical being who wrote them than I can copyright the collection of numbers on a lotto ticket because I put pencil to paper.

Rude, sure. Copyright? Not even a little. Only if ShadowDragon chose to claim the character as his creation and attempted to portray it in some fashion would he infringe on copyright. And I'm not even touching on the fact that this is specifically for review, and constituting less than a page of text would easily fall into the fair-use category. No, in order to protect a sheet, you'd have to register a trademark (as a trade secret, or otherwise neccessary to maintain your income).
Cain
QUOTE (Ddays @ Jul 4 2007, 03:36 PM)
What the hell are the drones using? I thought wep mounts peak out at LMG, and Stoner is a Medium Machine gun. Hell, he has rocket launchers in there as well.

But no rockets. nyahnyah.gif I think he knew those were well above the availiability cap.
kzt
QUOTE (Ddays)
I thought wep mounts peak out at LMG, and Stoner is a Medium Machine gun. Hell, he has rocket launchers in there as well.

Yes, it says LMG on page 341. That's kind of stupid, but it's what the rules say. Rocket launchers are fine. You'll notice he has no rockets. . .

Ddays
Yeah, he's well above the point limits. But seeing as how he has already ran some missions, there might be salvage and karma improvements in those stats.
ShadowDragon8685
I already deducted the 8,500 nuyen.gif he got. As for the Karma, I don't know where he spent it, but he's only recieved five points, total. I think he spent it on negotiation, which wasen't listed on the sheet he gave me.
Ddays
Any looting off the dead bodies of enemies? Large sums of cash might turn up this way (Just last game, my troll killed a go-ganger and took his tricked out harley armed with a stoner-ares m202, 4500 street value)
ShadowDragon8685
He stole two MCT Fly-Eyes, pawned them off for like, 1200. He rolled starting money for a High lifestyle, I'm assuming he has the average of 7,500. He also would've gotten 1,000 from the split of the start-of-run money.

So, the very most that he could be over is 9,200; two points worth. And I already deducted most of that, the rest woulden't be enough to make a BP of difference from the final figure.
Sterling
I don't think posting a character sheet and asking for a check of it is deserving of the vitriol thrown about by a few people here, but others have pointed out how it's not illegal, etc. is it rude? Not in my book. If one of my players submitted a sheet that I felt was 'off' in some manner, I'd probably post it as well. But I've learned to look at a sheet, see a potential problem, and hand it back with the question 'what's up with X?' Back in the day most of my players would realize I've spotted a tricky dodge and correct it. In the past I've shown players that opening the door to shifty rules dodges is a big mistake.

On to the matter at hand...

Edge caps at 7 for humans. Page 73.

The infirm flaw means any physical skill costs are doubled, so his piloting and gunnery skill costs are doubled (even at character creation).

The holes in his character seem to be his lack of a stealth program, and his inability to soak hot sim dumpshock damage. If he's not running hot sim, I'd be shocked. And I'd expect him to end up addicted to the hot sim VR experience if he's as as physically impaired as the player claims.

I think your only real mistake was allowing this character in the first place. He's just begging for a trace program to sniff out his base and a microdrone to show up and inject him with some sort of body resisted toxin. Or one or two runs in a wi-fi inhibited area and he'll be bored sitting on the sidelines. This character is a crafty build of a one-dimensional archetype (I sit in location X and rig/deck) and when his ability is blocked he's got nothing else to contribute. One Technomancer later, his main drone is stolen and he's sitting at home wondering what's going on.

If he's quadriplegic, who cares for him? You can't take such a critical game flaw and not explain who cooks, cleans, bathes, and otherwise cares for you. I doubt any of the other runners are interested in the job.

A good GM doesn't want to have to police his plaers, he hopes they'll do it themselves. An experienced GM knows that sometimes, the players will need policing. And if you crack down on it enough (but not too harshly) then the players learn not to try it in the future.
Ravor
I don't have time to rip into the build yet, but I have to say that I agree with ShadowDragon8685, if you play a character in one of my campaigns, then I can do what I will with that character as far as I'm concerned, including making him/her a NPC in the next campaign. (Generally speaking I won't do so, but hey, the character exists in my world.)
fistandantilus4.0
Just to pop in here right quick;

ShadowDragon posted a char sheet for review. Motivations or conflicts between him and his player are just that. Between him and his player. If he wants to post a review for the players sheet, that's fine. Shadowdragon, as the player is a poster here, dont' call him an ass. Rob, don't call Shadowdragon and ass. Seriously, I shouldn't have to comment on crap like this.
Aku
sterling--

you forgot about the lucky flaw, that bumps it to 8.
ShadowDragon8685
Sterling:

He has the Lucky edge, which raises his racial maximum once more, to a cap of 8.

Technically you're right about the Infirm flaw, but I allowed it because he cannot actually move on his own power. Infirm was the closest to being a paraplegic we could find. His legs literally do not work. (Though I may think about revoking that permission)...

I thought stealth was a derived attribute in SR4? If not, I'm going to be very cross... (You're right, I could easily see him addicted to hot sim.)

And yes, I'm starting to agree allowing this character was a mistake... Sigh.

As for who cares for him (PARAplegic, not quadraplegic. There's nothing wrong with his arms, just his legs!), that's why he has a Street Doc as such a high-loyalty contact. The doc sends a nurse to check up on him every few days or so.
Glyph
Actually, physical active skills are a specific subset of skills. Piloting is a vehicle skill, and gunnery is a combat skill, so neither would be affected by the infirm flaw. As Cain pointed out, though, it is still a 441-point character.

I am not sure that autosofts can go above 4 - if you look in the equipment section, they are listed as "Autosofts (Rating 1-4)".

On the commlink, I'm surprised that he hasn't upgraded the Response, since System (which in turn limits effective program ratings) is limited by the Response rating.
ShadowDragon8685
At this point, I don't think it really matters.

I'm going to appologize to him when I see him again, but... He's said he quit, and I'm not begging for him back, and if he came back, he'd probably want to play this character again.

*sigh*
Wasabi
Although the points do not tally I don't see anything especially munchkin about that character. The Edge of 8 can be unbalancing and the MMG presumably on drones is (as already mentioned) a problem, but all in all its just a character.

I think the munchkin part must be in how the character is played. I'm all for playing a character who is good at what he does and is effective in his role and that being said, this build (once it totals to 400) looks fine to me.

As to the posting of the character sheet, its just a game. Does it really matter if every character from every game of SR4 was posted publicly? Individual players may be offended so it could be a rude thing to do but it doesn't prevent the character from being played, played well, or anything like that.

If this character didnt have infirm and an anthro-avatar I think I'd be 100% fine with it. Not sure WHY I feel that way but thats it in a nutshell.

I hope ShadowDragon8685 you are able to run a fun game for those involved. Every GM's time is a blessing to the players provided they are all on the same sheet of music.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
Sorry, but publishing foreign characters without consent is not only basically copyright infringement

I see no background, no personality sketch, in short no anything that could reasonably be considered a creative work. Could you explain how on earth you believe this?

~J
Rotbart van Dainig
Copyright does not only cover the 'art' angle, but technical implementations, too.
While you can argue that that his character is not a piece of art, it is without doubt that it's the creative work of him.
Adarael
While it's not worth threadjacking this for, see my prior response. It's only copyright infringement under certain circumstances, none of which this qualifies for.
Critias
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
I don't know what the hell he's doing, and up until now I've just been trusting him to roll the correct dice and tell me what he was capable of!

And this right here is the problem with your game, in a nutshell.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Adarael)
It's only copyright infringement under certain circumstances, none of which this qualifies for.

In fact, a 'collection of numbers' can be subject to copyright. That's what happens with programs, etc.
But that doesn't keep the case from being a waste of time, and thus, note 'basically'.
mfb
yes, but a character sheet isn't a program--it's a set of numbers produced by what is effectively an algorithm. if anyone has the copyright to the sheet, it's WizKids, because they own the system that produced the numbers. if you played a game of checkers and wrote down all your moves, you couldn't copyright it (at least, i don't think you could); same principle applies here.
Ravor
You know, considering that he has quit I'm not going to go into his character point by point, but something really jumped out at me, and I've double-checked the sheet so I unless I've missed it twice your Rigger had neglected to actually buy a sim-module and trodenet.

This means of course that he could never use simsense to enter full-VR or jump into one of his drones, and if he were addicted to Hot-Sim then he'd be going through withdrawal. (And I'm left wondering how he was able to be a better Decker then the group's Technomancer.) This also means that his implanted control rig is completely worthless.

Also Stealth is a hacking program and not a derived attribute.



Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (mfb)
yes, but a character sheet isn't a program--it's a set of numbers produced by  what is effectively an algorithm.

As a program, it is designed to comply to a certain set of rules (..in theory) - but the design itself is the choice of the person doing so.

QUOTE (mfb)
if anyone has the copyright to the sheet, it's WizKids, because they own the system that produced the numbers.

In that case, the people building text editior and compilers would have lots of fun. wink.gif

QUOTE (mfb)
if you played a game of checkers and wrote down all your moves, you couldn't copyright it (at least, i don't think you could); same principle applies here.

As sick as it seems, I'm not entirely sure about that anymore. But as Connect Four is solved, Chess probably will be, too... and thus, as a purely mathematical problem, wouldn't.
mfb
the idea of a character sheet as a program designed to operate in a text-and-dice-based environment is attractive, but i don't think it can be copyrighted for the same reason that my characters in WoW can't be copyrighted--every aspect of their being is wholly and completely owned by someone else. sure, it was my own creative choices that gave me a jawless, eyeless, undead freak who wields a pair of gigantic glowing swords, but my choices came from a limited array of such choices designed to produce a limited array of end results.
Cain
Rotbart, I'm sorry, but copyright does not apply here

QUOTE
Copyright law covers only the form or manner in which ideas or information have been manifested, the "form of material expression". It is not designed or intended to cover the actual idea, concepts, facts, styles, or techniques which may be embodied in or represented by the copyright work. For example, the copyright which subsists in relation to a Mickey Mouse cartoon prohibits unauthorized parties from distributing copies of the cartoon or creating derivative works which copy or mimic Disney's particular anthropomorphic mouse, but does not prohibit the creation of artistic works about anthropomorphic mice in general, so long as they are sufficiently different to not be deemed imitative of the original. In some jurisdictions, copyright law provides scope for satirical or interpretive works which themselves may be copyrighted. Other laws may impose legal restrictions on reproduction or use where copyright does not - such as trademarks and patents.

Asking us to analyze this character is decidedly an interpretive task. If what you were saying is the case, we'd have to have written permission each and every time a student quoted another work in a homework assignment. As long as things are properly referenced as to their origin, there isn't a copyright infringement, at least in the USA.

Back on topic, I'd allow the character to be run, but only after being rewritten to canon standards. As a punishment for going 41 points over, he forfeits the extra cash he earned from the runs. He gets a fresh start, with all the good and bad that entails.
fistandantilus4.0
Point of the matter is that the player and writer of this sheet isn't contesting it, because it's absolutely ridiculous. It has no bearing on the discussion at hand. The Player and the Gm involved are both fine with it being up. If you feel compelled to continue with a conversation on whether or not copyright laws should apply, please do it under PM, and keep the rest of the thread on track.
mfb
to nitpick: by your argument, Cain, copyright does apply here--it's just that nobody's violating copyright. i don't think copyright applies at all, for the reason i explained above.

edit: sorry, fist posted while i was posting.
Zolhex
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
Am I wrong here? Is this character even remotely legal?

Is this "One little mistake!", or is the wool being pulled over my eyes? I don't like to accuse a player of cheating, but Jtuxyan has a history of making these "little mistakes", to the point that another DM made him level his D&D character, from 1-12, with him, level-by-level......

I dunno.... Please tell me I've made some grevious error and this is all perfectly right.

Not by my math but hey look for yourself.

Attributes: 160bp

Edge: 75bp

Skills: 134bp

Qualities: Pos. 20bp Neg. 35bp a gain of 15bp

Cyber: 21,000 (your off by 1,000)

Weapons: 66,000

Weapon Accessories: 44,950

Vehicles: 68,400 (your off by 3,400)

Melee Weapons: 5,500

Equipment: 6,995

Enhancements for drones: 19,750

Commlink: 14,000

Programs: 76,430

TOTAL: 323,025 65bp (73,025 over max cash or 15 bp over allowed at creation)
Starting cash is rolled after the character is created and used in game.

Contacts: 25bp

BP total: 429 (with the cash bp at max of 50 bp your player needs to drop some gear) (leaving in the extra 15 bp for cash the total is 444)

Well there ya go read it over I do belive I have all the totals correct and if I do your player well frankly s/he is not trying to pull the wool over your eyes s/he is out to in my opinion totaly screw you.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jul 5 2007, 07:44 AM)
It's only copyright infringement under certain circumstances, none of which this qualifies for.

In fact, a 'collection of numbers' can be subject to copyright. That's what happens with programs, etc.
But that doesn't keep the case from being a waste of time, and thus, note 'basically'.

Not without some other qualification. Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service.

~J
TypeRyder
Two minor sidenotes:

First he wouldn't have much fun wearing armor with a Body of 1 - he is only allowed two points of armor without sideeffects.

Second (and a really minor thing, depends on the level of Equipment detail): When he starts playing, he will be naked with no place to crash - I haven't seen any cloth or a lifestyle in the list.
Ravor
Hmm, so the bunkered Rigger never even had a bunker in the first place according to this sheet.

Rifleman
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 5 2007, 12:59 AM)
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jul 5 2007, 07:44 AM)
It's only copyright infringement under certain circumstances, none of which this qualifies for.

In fact, a 'collection of numbers' can be subject to copyright. That's what happens with programs, etc.
But that doesn't keep the case from being a waste of time, and thus, note 'basically'.

Final wording,
publishing another's character for the express purposes of review,
a character that has been used in a public internet game,
and with no intent to claim as his own,
is NOT violating Copywrite Law.

Thank you Kagetenshi for putting forth the case.

And for the record, he flat out cheated. I stopped counting at 420BP. With his attitude and the amount, it's not a mistake. Wave him good-bye and be glad your rid of him.
DireRadiant
Connection 6 contact?
bibliophile20
*bibliophile peeks in, sees that flamewar-potential has subsided*

*looks over proffered character sheet*

*whistles*

Dayam. Yeah, and this is why I'm glad that I helped two of my three players construct their characters--I know that the players are not munchkins, but still...

But, yeah, this guy sounds like a textbook munchkin, between attitude, tactics and outright cheating *ahem* sorry, creative counting during the character creation process (2+2=3*, right? (*for extremely small values of two)).

Perhaps for the next time he comes by, you should play a card game that allows you all be on relatively equal footing with his style of play?

I do have to say, though, that I'm sorely tempted to bookmark these threads for the future as a case example of a munchkin.
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