TASER International apparently has stick-n-shock technology:
http://www2.taser.com/products/law/Pages/XREP.aspx
I guess we'll see more info on this tomorrow, but it sure looks like SR4's stick-n-shock ammo, at least for 12g shotguns.
Full Version: Real-world stick-n-shock
"...weighing only half an ounce."
That's not that heavy, is it?
Making it almost feasible that you could get that stuff in pistol-calibers within a mortal lifespan.
Aww, f*ck, so all the whining about how shooting that crap (in the game) from light and hold-out pistols is totally "unrealistic" just got backstabbed.
By the arms-industry.
They are the devil!
That's not that heavy, is it?
Making it almost feasible that you could get that stuff in pistol-calibers within a mortal lifespan.
Aww, f*ck, so all the whining about how shooting that crap (in the game) from light and hold-out pistols is totally "unrealistic" just got backstabbed.
By the arms-industry.
They are the devil!
I can't see anything on their website, but the fact that it's fired from a shotgun doesn't imply it has the velocity or range of a normal load in the same gun. I suspect (but don't have any evidence for that) that the power will be racked back significantly so as to expose the electronics to less accelleration stresses.
But still, even if it has no real range, it's a damn impressive technological achievement.
No, I'm still not putting Stick n' shock in game. If not for realism then for its "better than everything else" stats.
But still, even if it has no real range, it's a damn impressive technological achievement.
No, I'm still not putting Stick n' shock in game. If not for realism then for its "better than everything else" stats.
Unless it somehow has the mass of lead it won't have the range of lead.
Also while I believe that somethign could be loaded in light pistols I don't see why damage shouldn't scale with size.
Also while I believe that somethign could be loaded in light pistols I don't see why damage shouldn't scale with size.
If it has the same range as lead, it kills like lead...
That's the only problem with S&S in SR.
That's the only problem with S&S in SR.
From the PR it looks like these things have ranges compatable with current bean bag type munitions.
However those things supposedly have an effective range of about 20 yards. So I think these things are more like the fired taser darts on the actual taser weapons in the book.
S&S is some kind of Judge Dred like rocket powered round or something.
However those things supposedly have an effective range of about 20 yards. So I think these things are more like the fired taser darts on the actual taser weapons in the book.
S&S is some kind of Judge Dred like rocket powered round or something.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| If it has the same range as lead, it kills like lead... That's the only problem with S&S in SR. |
No no, see, the shocker part is SO SMALL that they have extra room in the bullet. Room for a range detector and drag 'chute. See where I'm going? The full-weight round travels at full speed until it's very close to hitting something, at which time is deploys a miniature parachute, which slows it dramatically at the last second. Also, it is made of smart materials and deforms into a flat disc shape, further distributing the mass. And it plays mp3s.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) | ||
No no, see, the shocker part is SO SMALL that they have extra room in the bullet. Room for a range detector and drag 'chute. See where I'm going? The full-weight round travels at full speed until it's very close to hitting something, at which time is deploys a miniature parachute, which slows it dramatically at the last second. Also, it is made of smart materials and deforms into a flat disc shape, further distributing the mass. And it plays mp3s. |
can i also install a rating 6 agent on it to hack the enemy's skinlinks once it hits? =D
Only if you upgraded it with the Skinlink mod first, then upgraded it's response to 6.
I've gotta agree this is more like the wireless taser rounds the pulsar fires than stick n shock. But we're getting closer.
| QUOTE (sunnyside) |
| Unless it somehow has the mass of lead it won't have the range of lead. Also while I believe that somethign could be loaded in light pistols I don't see why damage shouldn't scale with size. |
could it be that the capacitors, or whatever other energy storage thats used, are so effective that they are scaled back for asked for effect rather then "so much bang and can be delivered"?
as in, the charge delivered is balanced for stunning your average human, and the size of energy storage needed to deliver that is so small that the same size can be used in hold out and shotgun alike.
now if they where instead designed to deliver as much as can be given the size, the shotgun one would probably move quite far into the lethal range vs the hold out one.
if this makes no sense im not surprised as i have a bit of a cold right now. yep, a cold while its the hottest sommer i can recall. go fig...
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 8 2007, 08:19 PM) |
| If it has the same range as lead, it kills like lead... That's the only problem with S&S in SR. |
I assumed that the electronic bits in the Stick-n-Shock was suspended in a sticky gel, like gel rounds only even more forgiving. Thus the "Stick" part.
Sure, but that would have to be lots of gel to efficiently slow down the capacitor dart.
hobgoblin you may have a point. But it opens up a nasty can of worms as the PCs will tell their weapons specialist to make the super shotgun version anyway.
................................wait. Actually you could do that right now RAW.
Weapon specialist (with facility and all that), OK so I'm taking the hold out pistol stick and shock rounds and putting six of them together to make a round that fits nicely into my sawed off shotgun, so that every shot acts like a long narrow burst except for that "recoil" thing.
That actually wouldn't be all that much worse than the machine pistol with S&S everyone uses anyway.
.........Until you fire the shotgun rounds on full auto. How would you even do that? Multiply it out so you fire 18 round equivalent short bursts? 60 round full bursts?
................................wait. Actually you could do that right now RAW.
Weapon specialist (with facility and all that), OK so I'm taking the hold out pistol stick and shock rounds and putting six of them together to make a round that fits nicely into my sawed off shotgun, so that every shot acts like a long narrow burst except for that "recoil" thing.
That actually wouldn't be all that much worse than the machine pistol with S&S everyone uses anyway.
.........Until you fire the shotgun rounds on full auto. How would you even do that? Multiply it out so you fire 18 round equivalent short bursts? 60 round full bursts?
You people lack imagination. The range of a projectile is based on starting velocity, mass, and drag. If you assume friction is fixed, then yes, there is a problem. The answer is to use a round with a different drag coefficient.
S&S rounds IMC are one of those hollow "lifting body" designs (like those weird nerf throwing tubes) that get lots of range despite having relatively low velocity or mass. I mean, they still go at paintball speeds, so they ain't gently wafting through the air but there's no reason for them to be lethal on their own.
S&S rounds IMC are one of those hollow "lifting body" designs (like those weird nerf throwing tubes) that get lots of range despite having relatively low velocity or mass. I mean, they still go at paintball speeds, so they ain't gently wafting through the air but there's no reason for them to be lethal on their own.
The site's got details now, including a couple of videos. Only CGI animation, though.
http://www2.taser.com/products/law/Pages/XREP.aspx
http://www2.taser.com/products/law/Pages/XREP.aspx
100 foot range, 20 second incapacitation cycle. Cool. Too bad SR does such a crappy job of reflecting how tasers really work.
| QUOTE (kigmatzomat) |
| I mean, they still go at paintball speeds, so they ain't gently wafting through the air but there's no reason for them to be lethal on their own. |
Nothing wrong with paintball speed & range.
Just, rifle range...
| QUOTE (kzt) |
| Too bad SR does such a crappy job of reflecting how tasers really work. |
True. Everone wearing body armor (or a padded leather jacket) is pretty much immune to tasers... unlike SR, where tasers are the best option against heavy armor.
| QUOTE (sunnyside) |
| hobgoblin you may have a point. But it opens up a nasty can of worms as the PCs will tell their weapons specialist to make the super shotgun version anyway. ................................wait. Actually you could do that right now RAW. Weapon specialist (with facility and all that), OK so I'm taking the hold out pistol stick and shock rounds and putting six of them together to make a round that fits nicely into my sawed off shotgun, so that every shot acts like a long narrow burst except for that "recoil" thing. That actually wouldn't be all that much worse than the machine pistol with S&S everyone uses anyway. .........Until you fire the shotgun rounds on full auto. How would you even do that? Multiply it out so you fire 18 round equivalent short bursts? 60 round full bursts? |
just wait for arsenal and whatever toys and rules that cover weapons in there.
then insane amounts of S&S pr attack will probably be the least of your worries
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||
True. Everone wearing body armor (or a padded leather jacket) is pretty much immune to tasers... unlike SR, where tasers are the best option against heavy armor. |
I dunno actually. That thing looks a lot like its four forward prongs would be able to penetrate many a jacket. And in SR presumably they'd sharpen those things up and make them out of steel.
Still, I don't think they do the best job with tasers realistically, but this is easier to deal with (and I too wish armor was more effective).
well the option is to make little specialist rules for each and every weapon out there...
right now a magical lightning bolt, a taser, a s&s round and any other electric attack works mostly the same...
right now a magical lightning bolt, a taser, a s&s round and any other electric attack works mostly the same...
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| right now a magical lightning bolt, a taser, a s&s round and any other electric attack works mostly the same... |
Lightning bolt kills, though... and the rest has a bout the same limits as tasers.
| QUOTE (sunnyside) |
| And in SR presumably they'd sharpen those things up and make them out of steel. |
Do you think those things are made of wood IRL?
What you see are plastic covers, hiding the barbed needles.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||
Lightning bolt kills, though... and the rest has a bout the same limits as tasers. |
and the difference between stun and kill is the change of one letter in SR.
point is that they are all based on the electrical damage rules.
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| point is that they are all based on the electrical damage rules. |
No... that wouldn't be a point, since the answer simply is: Great - adjust the electrical damage rules alltogether.
The point is that they are based on the elemental damage rules...
huh?
It doesn't matter if it's electricity, laser, fire, acid, contact poison or whatever you image - per RAW, such stuff reduces impact armor by half.
well electricity have its own secondary effect, and this is shared by all attacks that do electrical damage iirc.
the is unique to SR4 as earlier versions didnt have that unified system iirc...
the is unique to SR4 as earlier versions didnt have that unified system iirc...
The secondary effects aren't really the problem...
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||
Nothing wrong with paintball speed & range. Just, rifle range... |
I never said paintball range just speed. These are lift-generating shapes when spun. Range increases dramatically when you start adding lift.
Here's a toy version of what I'm talking about:
http://explore4fun.com/xzylflyincyl.html
Video of someone throwing one across a football field:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GavWPxAAlY
instructions on making one out of paper:
http://www.think-differently.co.uk/page133g.html
Ta da. a round that can be light in mass, (relatively) low in velocity and still have a long range.
Uh... that's great. Where's the payload? 
edit: never mind...
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| Uh... that's great. Where's the payload? |
Taser darts are capacitors. Capacitors can be made into any shape you want since they just layers of dielectric material, there fore the ring is the dart. Ad a couple of leading edge prongs, possibly curved to match the spin, and any discharge control circuitry and it is done.
..if you have a techlevel with that kind of capacitors, you don't need them anymore... because you just hit the target with a stunner beam.
well, let's be honest--if you did build such a stunner beam, it'd probably draw on the same power source as a cyberlimb.
An akkumulator lasting a whole day like the prothesis of Hugh Herr?
Not sure what the argument is. SR is chock full of not-possible-today-or-anytime-in-the-foreseeable-future tech. We have no idea how most of their tech is powered, how it communicates, and what fundamental variances exist in material science exist. Given that any of that would almost predicate some stupidly high energy capacitors, it's nothing to get worked up over.
Heck, S&S could use high efficiency, one-shot piezoelectric materials or even phase-change materials that provide or release the energy at the time of firing.
Heck, S&S could use high efficiency, one-shot piezoelectric materials or even phase-change materials that provide or release the energy at the time of firing.
This made it onto the Scientific American Observations (Editor's Blog).
http://blog.sciam.com/index.php?title=does...=1&pb=1&ref=rss
http://blog.sciam.com/index.php?title=does...=1&pb=1&ref=rss
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