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Panda Bear
I'm a huge fan of bipedal tanks (Battletech/Mechwarrior and others), and was wondering where the anthroform vehicles were located. Am I missing them in the corebook? I see the skill listed, but don't see stats or descriptions of them. Are they listed in a sourcebook for fourth edition that is already out, or are they going to be in a soon-to-be released book?
Fortune
QUOTE
... are they going to be in a soon-to-be released book?


I plead with the Spirits on a daily basis that this will not come to be.
hobgoblin
anthroform drones where available in earlier versions, but none where so big that they could be used as vehicles. most likely some type of anthroform will show up in arsenal. but how big they will be, we dont know.
Ravor
So basically we'll just have to wait and see if we can pull them out of our Arse. cyber.gif
hobgoblin
hardy harr harr...
Fortune
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jul 16 2007, 07:35 AM)
anthroform drones where available in earlier versions, but none where so big that they could be used as vehicles.

Yeah, I know. It's the 'bipedal tanks' a la Mechwarrior that I am dreading.
Wakshaani
I hope and pray that we get at least three in addition to the one we have now (Kanmushi, yay!).

A 'Small' class walker, a 'Medium' human-ish one, and a larger combat type.

These would be mainly drones or robots, with teh largish one possibly being human-piloted instead. These would be for SWAT teams and the like, somewhere between teh size of a large motorcycle and a small car, with firepower to match. Call 'em "Trollbusters" or the like, for when you have to pull out teh HEAVY artillery.

But I'm not interested in 10 meter tall battletanks on legs ... I have Battletech for that. smile.gif

-- Wak
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jul 16 2007, 07:35 AM)
anthroform drones where available in earlier versions, but none where so big that they could be used as vehicles.

Yeah, I know. It's the 'bipedal tanks' a la Mechwarrior that I am dreading.

sorry about that, it was mainly aimed at the original poster.
Fortune
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
sorry about that, it was mainly aimed at the original poster.

I don't like the idea, but I wouldn't aim a Mech at him because he brought it up. wink.gif
Panda Bear
Well, I understand why some wouldn't like the idea of mecha in Shadowrun, it does fit. MechWarrior was originally Battletech, and if you have read any of the books you might see that, despite the lack of Magic and other non-human races, it's somewhat cyberpunk. After all, it did start in the 80's. It's not like friggin' Gundam or anything, it's bipedal tanks like AT-STs. They did have some humanoid, but I'm pretty positive they weren't doing any damned kung-fu techniques.
Fortune
Don't get me wrong. I understand the genre (and have read some of the books), and even agree that it could be somewhat 'cyberpunk'ish. That isn't my objection. I just don't want to see the two mixed together in any 'official' capacity.
Wakshaani
Also recalling that 'ANthroform" doesn't mean "Humanoid" ... some subset of robo-critters could be rather nifty. Guad DogBots are a given, but having a runner team rounded up, let loose on private grounds, to be hunted down by a sleek prototype robo-panther ... you have to admit, it has cachet. smile.gif
James McMurray
I'm looking forward to troll sized anthroforms and rules to disguise them so I can make a rigger that goes on a run riding his drone. Sure, he won't be as beefy as a normal troll, but he'll be immortal (assuming a good cash flow).
Kingmaker
I'd avoid any large anthroform vehicles because they are unrealistic and not really in keeping with the Shadowrun theme.
A metahuman size drone could work, but wouldn't it be rather unstable?
odinson
The large drones wouldn't really have a place outside of a merc campaign. I hope that there aren't players riding around in an actual tank in seattle, so I would expect that there wouldn't be any tanks on legs either. If there were to be another large war to break out and there was a campaign book specifically for fighting in the war then yeah, I would love to see the mechs rollin around, piloted by remote riggers, but not in a regular shadowrun game.
TheDrake
Is an anthroform liken to Cain from Robocop? If so, I believe there was one in a 3rd ed SRM.
Aristotle
QUOTE (odinson)
The large drones wouldn't really have a place outside of a merc campaign. I hope that there aren't players riding around in an actual tank in seattle, so I would expect that there wouldn't be any tanks on legs either. If there were to be another large war to break out and there was a campaign book specifically for fighting in the war then yeah, I would love to see the mechs rollin around, piloted by remote riggers, but not in a regular shadowrun game.

I agree with this actually. I don't think mecha have a place in a primary sourcebook (I'd rather as much page count as possible go to the core concept of shadowrun), but I've always been a fan of the idea of campaign books detailing alternate settings, or an expansion of the core one, for the Shadowrun campaign setting. I've never been a fan of the 20' tall mecha concept, but I'd accept them in a mercenary campaign guide. I do like the idea of power armor, although suiting up inside of an anthroform seems more dangerous than just controlling one remotely. I'd have to have a game mechanic reason why the character would do that.
Jaid
QUOTE (Aristotle)
I do like the idea of power armor, although suiting up inside of an anthroform seems more dangerous than just controlling one remotely. I'd have to have a game mechanic reason why the character would do that.

1) immune to jamming
2) gets you physically present while providing *excellent* protection, including full protection from being directly targetted by spells (that is, you can't target a person inside a vehicle unless there's a clear window of some sort). even the vehicle itself will be fairly resistant to magic.
3) if you rig it in hotsim, you get:
- 3 IPs
- +2 dicepool for everything
- 1 skill for all weapons, with some *extremely* broad specialisations
- the athletics group is basically replaced with the vehicle skill
- "vehicle" specialisations in certain skills becomes extremely effective
- all attributes can be set to the response of the vehicle.
- a cheap piece of cyberware provides +2 on all vehicle tests... including gunnery and your vehicle skill.
- the ability to host a high rating pilot running a good clearsight autosoft... providing a bonus to your perception/sensor tests, or performing active sensor-assisted gunnery while you shoot.
- the ability to mount a gun on the vehicle with a smart firing platform, load it up with a high rating pilot, and have it provide suppressing fire, etc while you dodge, or put a high rating pilot into the armor with a defense autosoft and have it dodge while you shoot. (and i'm sure there's more that you could do with this idea, this is just to give you a concept)
4) it provides "hardened armor" sort of (that is, it's immune to stun, and anything below it's armor rating is converted to stun)

basically, i can think of all sorts of reasons why a player might want to have a power armor suit, or better yet, an anthroform robotic vehicle (ie you sit in a pilot seat, rather than wearing it)
Link
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
Also recalling that 'ANthroform" doesn't mean "Humanoid" ... some subset of robo-critters could be rather nifty. Guad DogBots are a given, but having a runner team rounded up, let loose on private grounds, to be hunted down by a sleek prototype robo-panther ... you have to admit, it has cachet. smile.gif

QUOTE
Oh, it's got cachet, baby! It's got cachet up the yin-yang!

I believe 'Anthro' refers to humans, quadrupeds like dogs and panthers would be walker drones (from Rigger 2 & 3's vehicle chassis descriptions).
Wakshaani
QUOTE (Link)
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
Also recalling that 'ANthroform" doesn't mean "Humanoid" ... some subset of robo-critters could be rather nifty. Guad DogBots are a given, but having a runner team rounded up, let loose on private grounds, to be hunted down by a sleek prototype robo-panther ... you have to admit, it has cachet. smile.gif

QUOTE
Oh, it's got cachet, baby! It's got cachet up the yin-yang!

I believe 'Anthro' refers to humans, quadrupeds like dogs and panthers would be walker drones (from Rigger 2 & 3's vehicle chassis descriptions).

Nope! Refers specifically to any vehicle which uses legs for transport, with emote operation, biped, and quadruped as specializations. The Kanmushi, for example, is a spider-drone about the size of a US quarter that can walk on walls. You could add Rigger adaptations to you Aibo and take it for a ride. smile.gif
Link
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
QUOTE (Link @ Jul 16 2007, 04:42 AM)
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
Also recalling that 'ANthroform" doesn't mean "Humanoid" ... some subset of robo-critters could be rather nifty. Guad DogBots are a given, but having a runner team rounded up, let loose on private grounds, to be hunted down by a sleek prototype robo-panther ... you have to admit, it has cachet. smile.gif

QUOTE
Oh, it's got cachet, baby! It's got cachet up the yin-yang!

I believe 'Anthro' refers to humans, quadrupeds like dogs and panthers would be walker drones (from Rigger 2 & 3's vehicle chassis descriptions).

Nope! Refers specifically to any vehicle which uses legs for transport, with emote operation, biped, and quadruped as specializations. The Kanmushi, for example, is a spider-drone about the size of a US quarter that can walk on walls. You could add Rigger adaptations to you Aibo and take it for a ride. smile.gif

Is that from SR4?

R3 (p109) describes anthroforms as specialised walker drones with metahuman-shaped bodies.

Some MSN 'net dictionary says;
an·thro·bot·ics
noun
Definition:
development of robots resembling humans: the study and development of robots that are intended to behave like or resemble human beings
Rotbart van Dainig
Perhaps because 'Pilot Walker' would have sound like like you could use it to brain-hack Chuck Norris.
Wakshaani
From SR4, yes.

On a related note, one of the few times I had to use the "Don't be a dick" rule for chargen was a player whowanted to scrounge up a few more points and settled on "Incompetence: Pilot Anthroform." I had to kick him in the shin.
Fix-it
QUOTE (Kingmaker)
I'd avoid any large anthroform vehicles because they are unrealistic and not really in keeping with the Shadowrun theme.

You keep using That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Caine Hazen
Well in reality, if we wanna get all technical and stuff- anthr?pos is the greek for human; thus they would be human form bots...

It should probably read as pilot bioform, indicating that it has a biological locomotion vs a wheel/tread, hull 'n' motor, or wing (fixed/rotary) locomotion. Otherwise how would I pilot my Kanimushi around?
KarmaInferno
Ahh, getting fond memories of my drone rigger from SR3 and his small army of anthroform drones...

Really, I can see large anthroform vehicles in the arsenal of corps and militaries, but you really shouldn't see them much in the shadows, any more than the average 'runner will see main battle tanks on a run.

Not to say it WON'T happen. I can see a run involving trying to sneak past a large walker tank in a compound, because confronting it directly will get your ass blown off.

biggrin.gif


-karma
Buster
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
From SR4, yes.

On a related note, one of the few times I had to use the "Don't be a dick" rule for chargen was a player whowanted to scrounge up a few more points and settled on "Incompetence: Pilot Anthroform." I had to kick him in the shin.

I think every character should take that negative quality until the game designers put out a book with anthroform drones. That'll show 'em! biggrin.gif
Ravor
*chuckles* Aye, although personally I think I'll wait until ARSE comes out and if I can't pull anthroform drones out of that then I think it'll become a running joke in all of my campaigns.
Buster
I think the game designers meant to say "arthropod" instead of "anthroform". When I saw the quadruped anthroform drone specialty, I immediately thought of the spider tank drones from the Ghost in the Shell TV series and the cyberdog from the Cyberpunk 2020 game. And of course a bipedal drone has lots of examples in popular media from C3PO to the Terminator to the droids in I,Robot.

As to giant mecha warriors from Battlemech, I'm sure they'll cost as much as any other tank: tens of millions of nuyen and will be way beyond the reach of the average shadowrunner. If the GM allows tanks, fighter jets, and mecha in his game regularly, he probably isn't playing Shadowrun anymore.
Ryu
We will not use ARSE for arsenal, no?
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
Perhaps because 'Pilot Walker' would have sound like like you could use it to brain-hack Chuck Norris.

not a good idea, the biofeedback would be horrible...
Magus
You can have your giant AnthroForm Mecha, just give me my Ranger X Archery set with the specialized APDS arrows and my troll archer. Bye- Bye Rigger.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Magus)
You can have your giant AnthroForm Mecha, just give me my Ranger X Archery set with the specialized APDS arrows and my troll archer. Bye- Bye Rigger.

Bah. All I need are a bunch of little furry guys and some tree trunks. biggrin.gif
PBTHHHHT
Bah, just have a mage with the levitation spell or magic fingers spell and these little furry guys will follow him like he's a god. Yeah, it may help if you have the mage dressed up all in gold. Still, cheaper than a mecha. nyahnyah.gif

biblio: For a sec when I read that I almost thought you were talking about drop bears, man, too much reading of the drop bear thread...
bibliophile20
rotfl.gif Nope; I still haven't descended into that pit of madness known as the Drop Bear Thread yet,. I'm a Star Wars junkie (own almost all the books, even *gag* Jedi Trial, and can recite the Jedi Code from memory).

And is it just me, or does anyone else think that some Star Wars geeks must have Awakened? *suddenly must build custom tradition based around the Jedi; spirits are Force Ghosts, mana is the Force, the astral is Force Sight...* grinbig.gif Oh, and lightsabers are extendable dikoted heated blades covered with a bright glowing hologram.
Ravor
*chuckles* Naw, it's much easier to have lightsabers be a touchrange light elemental spell with a custom FX attached to it.

Oh, and by default the spell has to be learned to be used with a Fetish. cyber.gif
bibliophile20
Hadn't thought of that. Of course, now that you have:

The fetish creation is done as part of an initiation; however, as the process has become so ritualized, the initiate does not need the Enchanting skill to create the fetish, which also incorporates part of the function of a sustaining focus; however, the components are esoteric and scarce, and the ritual must be followed exactly or Bad Things will happen when the saber is used.
ShadowDragon8685
Hey, I'm as much of a Starwars geek as the next Star Wars geek (although I say the Enterprise will whoop the tar off of an ISD), but isen't that a bit off-topic?

Maybe you oughta make a "Jedi as a Magic Tradition" thread. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.


I could see anthroform robots - pilotable, war-machine models - being part of the average Rigger's repitoire, if you made a campaign custom-made for the idea. Armored Core, anyone?

Complete the dystopia, have all sembalance of Law & Order that dosen't flow from the barrel of a weapon basically thrown out of the window, and the PCs could be taking jobs from Lone Star to help maintain the "peace", or from Megas (or other interests) to destabalize it.
Magus
Pudoo!!
toturi
QUOTE (bibliophile20)
rotfl.gif Nope; I still haven't descended into that pit of madness known as the Drop Bear Thread yet,. I'm a Star Wars junkie (own almost all the books, even *gag* Jedi Trial, and can recite the Jedi Code from memory).

And is it just me, or does anyone else think that some Star Wars geeks must have Awakened? *suddenly must build custom tradition based around the Jedi; spirits are Force Ghosts, mana is the Force, the astral is Force Sight...* grinbig.gif Oh, and lightsabers are extendable dikoted heated blades covered with a bright glowing hologram.

There must be a ysalamiri in the center of those mana voids and people with Magic Resistance must have been somehow cast out of the Force.
bibliophile20
And Masking is how Jedi--and Sith--hide themselves from others, al la Palpatine.

Spirits:
Combat: Guardian
Detection: Guidance (manifests as an old teacher)
Health: ?
Illusion: ?
Manipulation: ?

Requisite Spells:
Influence (Jedi Mind Trick!)
Levitate (Unless your name is Halcyon)
Magic Fingers (ditto)
Phantasm
Heal
Darkest Angel
No. Although big walking robots may look cool to some of you, they'll never make it to the battlefield. With all the armour piercing weaponry going around these days capable of blasting through several feet of concrete - much of it man-portable - not getting hit in the first place has become far more important than being able to take hits. Consequently, tanks are getting lower profiles these days, rather than more armour and bigger guns, because there just isn't any point in taking more weaponry. In the real world, a 15' mech is going to be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard on the front line, because some punk with a MILAN or TOW behind a wall will either blow it to smitherines or at the very least knock it over rendering it just as useless. Think about hiding one of those things from air support too, a tank is easily hidden with a bit of cammo netting and a tree. 15' Mech? No chance - any passing air support would spot it from 50 miles away with their eyeballs; take into account FLIR and RADAR and you'll be spotting them before you're airborne.

So no. Please no Mechs in SR.
Rotbart van Dainig
Well, today, for the first time, I took a look inside the german release of SOX.

Guess what? They had an Ares hovertank... with six legs. With anchors. So it can jump onto buildings and stick there. dead.gif
fool
aren't the bug drones anthroform? I'd say yes since they're the only thing that you use the skill for currently.
James McMurray
QUOTE (Darkest Angel)
In the real world, a 15' mech is going to be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard on the front line

What is this "real world" of which you speak? smile.gif
James McMurray
QUOTE (fool)
aren't the bug drones anthroform? I'd say yes since they're the only thing that you use the skill for currently.

They are and they aren't. For the Pilot Anthroform skill they count. For the actual definition of the word anthroform they don't.
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