James McMurray
Jul 17 2007, 04:38 PM
This Spider is based more on the African/Native american Totem Anansi, aka Spider, who is a trickster. More specifically, it's based on the Neil Gaiman representation of Spider in American Gods and Anansi Boys.
QUOTE |
Spider
Spider tells the stories. Or, more specifically, spider is the stories. Long ago, when the world was young, everyone and everything was a story, or it was nothing. The first stories belonged to Tiger, and they were vicious, nasty things. Nobody in a Tiger story had a full belly until someone else had died.
Being small, and not much of a hunter, Spider did not like this.
Tiger was strong and fierce, but Spider was smart. And, as anyone who is small and smart knows, that's all you need. Anansi tricked Tiger out of his stories, and now they contain skill and wit rather than strength alone.
Advantages: +2 dice for Manipulation and Illusion Spells, +2 dice for Negotiation tests, +2 dice for
Disadvantages: Spider is covetous. If someone has something that a Spider magician does not, he must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to resist trying to trick the person out of it. If the thing is unique, the threshold increases to 4. |
I think it's a bit too strong, but I like the increased threshold for unique things to covet and can't figure out how to balance the added disadvantage. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
The mentor is being developed in the hopes that it will get approved for a magician I want to run. He'll be of the Aboriginal tradition if I can get a change to Possession approved (mostly because I want to try out possession, not for mechanical reasons). If not, maybe a Voodooist, although it'll require personality changes and I may have to research a good name for a Spideresque Loa.
Jaid
Jul 17 2007, 04:46 PM
+2 illusion and manipulation is way too much.
scale back the manipulation part, imo, and don't give the bonus to negotiation and whatever else that blank space was gonna be. if you absolutely must have negotiation, make it and one of the spell categories +1, or possibly give a choice (+2 mental manipulation or negotiation skill, for example)
not really sure about how the coveting thing comes into play, maybe if i knew more of the mythology or whatever...
James McMurray
Jul 17 2007, 04:56 PM
Sorry, that trailing "+2 dice for" shouldn't be there.
The covetous part comes because the majority of Spider stories are of him tricking someone out of something they have that he wants.
I could drop the increased threshold for unique objects and the +2 for illusion spells, which makes him very close to all the other mentor spirits who have a behavior they must roll to avoid.
Also, I'm torn between Negotiation and Con for the skill bonus, although at the moment I'm leaning more towards Con. Depending on the story he uses them both frequently. In the end I may just flip a coin.
Jaid
Jul 17 2007, 05:01 PM
do 1 better: the player chooses negotiation or con (much like another mentor, i think dragonslayer?)
Buster
Jul 17 2007, 05:05 PM
I really like the Covetous disadvantage, I will definitely use it for my Raven totem mod. Raven and Ananzi are very similar totems, excelling in trickery and greed.
+2 illusion, +2 manipulation, and +2 negotiation is definitely too much with only one smallish disadvantage. I would add the Trickster disadvantage to even it out.
Buster
Jul 17 2007, 05:31 PM
Actually now that I think about it, Raven's opportunistic disadvantage would fit Ananzi perfectly. Adding that to the covetous disadvantage would balance out the +2 manipulation, +2 illusion, + 2 con/negotiation.
As to voodoo, the loa listed in the SR books are just a tiny fraction of the loa known. There are like a dozen versions and incarnations of Ghede alone. I know the african slaves in the U.S. used to tell stories about "Aunt Nancy" (because using african words would get them a beating) and Uncle Remus's "Brer Rabbit" stories were based off the Aunt Nancy (Ananzi) stories. Just creating a loa named Ananzi or Aunt Nancy would be good.
Buster
Jul 17 2007, 05:58 PM
Further thoughts: Would Ananzi even get Illusion? I don't remember any stories where Ananzi created illusions or turned invisible or such, he just built clever traps and conned people into them.
+2 manipulation, +2 con would cover it. Then you just need one disadvantage like your covetous disadvantage or Raven's opportunistic disadvantage.
sunnyside
Jul 17 2007, 06:23 PM
First off adding disadvantages to get more bonuses is not a good idea.
Well it's probably a good idea for a character, bad idea for a GM letting it into their game, or other characters in the game.
Stick with the +2 manip +2 con
As for the disadvantage I suggest removing the generic part. The reason being that it will simply come up to often. You'd be a freaking kleptomanic. And really all you've done is create an IC reason why your character should be taking everything that isn't bolted down. So on one hand you'll tend to blow a lot of game time and on the other you'd tend to wind up with better gear. This will not make your party like you so much.
Therefore I would suggest the 3 threshold for something very special/rare and the 4 for something unique (so you won't want every little thing only stuff that is rare). Note that it applies to the thing, not neccesarily it's value.
Also by having it only apply to rare/unique things it means that you will probably have to get stuff off the GM's NPCs. And GMs tend to actually get a clue when it comes to their NPCs.
Finally is the "trick required" part. So no mobminding everyone and just taking their stuff.
James McMurray
Jul 17 2007, 06:42 PM
Buster, I only added illusion to try and compensate for the added disadvantage of the 4 threshold items. I agree that it doesn't fit him.
sunnyside, it was actually a case of adding advantages to make up for a stronger disadvantage, but I see your point.
The generic clause for coveting wouldn't come up extremely often. I'm picturing it as them having something the magician doesn't have and can't readily get. They won't be tricking everyone out of commlinks, pistols, and data crystals because those are something they can get fairly easily. I like your version better though, so consider it swiped.
I'll repost the updated version momentarily.
James McMurray
Jul 17 2007, 06:45 PM
QUOTE |
Spider
Spider tells the stories. Or, more specifically, spider is the stories. Long ago, when the world was young, everyone and everything was a story, or it was nothing. The first stories belonged to Tiger, and they were vicious, nasty things. Nobody in a Tiger story had a full belly until someone else had died.
Being small, and not much of a hunter, Spider did not like this.
Tiger was strong and fierce, but Spider was smart. And, as anyone who is small and smart knows, that's all you need. Anansi tricked Tiger out of his stories, and now they contain skill and wit rather than strength alone.
Advantages: +2 dice for Manipulation Spells, +2 dice for Negotiation or Con tests (chosen when the mentor is acquired)
Disadvantages: Spider is covetous. If someone has something out of the ordinary that a Spider magician does not, he must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) test to resist trying to trick the person out of it. If the thing is unique, the threshold increases to 4. |
Also, does anyone know the story of how spider tricked tiger out of the stories? I don't even know if that's an actual story or something Gaiman added for his books, and google sends me to all sorts of sites about the books rather than the original stories.
Buster
Jul 17 2007, 07:26 PM
Here's a good site that covers the Caribbean version of Ananzi:
http://www.robinsononeil.com/caribbean_anansi.htmHere's the African version of the stories:
http://www.robinsononeil.com/african_anansi.htm
James McMurray
Jul 17 2007, 07:26 PM
Thanks!
Buster
Jul 17 2007, 07:28 PM
No problem. Some stories it's Tiger, some it's Snake, some it be Jaguar Wit Teeth Like Daggas.
Talia Invierno
Jul 17 2007, 09:42 PM
Definitely manipulation. However, both the covetousness and trickster aspect generally can be unusual compared to what is more familiar within Coyote or Raven traditions.
(Ironically, I've not read Gaiman. I'd encountered and loved the Anansi stories in earlier myth/folklore contexts.)
I'm remembering a story about Anansi and his wife and children, hungry as always, but they only have enough plantains -- one each -- if one person went without. Anansi volunteered, so his wife and each of his children had a plantain on their plate, while he had none.
He looked hungry, and his plate looked empty. They felt guilty.
... And then each of them gave him half of their own plantain, so he wouldn't go without. (Work it out
)
James McMurray
Jul 17 2007, 09:59 PM
QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
(Ironically, I've not read Gaiman. I'd encountered and loved the Anansi stories in earlier myth/folklore contexts.) |
I'm partway into American Gods and it's pretty good so far, although it's about all sorts of gods, and is so far focusing mainly on ones that aren't Anansi (won't give away who in case someone here ends up reading it).
Anansi Boys was about Anansi's sons and one of them's introduction to the world of gods. It focused completely on Anansi's pantheon, and although Anansi dies at the start it's still very much a Spider Story. If you like Anansi you'll probably like it.
And if you're not allergic to audio books, listen to Anansi Boys instead of reading it. Lenny Henry, the British comedian, reads it, and he's really a masterful storyteller. I've got a long commute to work and I was upset when the story finally came to a close.
On a somewhat related note, American Gods is read by Roger Guidall, who also read several of the books in the Dark Tower series. It's a very odd juxtaposition because every time I hear Shadow (the main character) talk I get a picture of a thousand year old gunslinger who's short a couple fingers, but Shadow is a 33 year old ex-con and amateur sleight of hand magician.
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