This is the thread where you can ask questions about the industry, and I [or some of the other industry people who hang out here, maybe] will try to answer.
I'm starting this because someone on another message board commented that I was using 'jargon' when I mentioned "Text approval" and "layout" -- two words that I don't think are anything close to jargon... so if I can answer and pressing or not-so-pressing questions people may have about processes within the industry, that would be cool; an educated fan base is a good fan base.
Full Version: Industry Questions
Very cool idea, Adam.
I think the people who really don't know how the magic is made (like me) aren't goign to know enough to ask the questions... I mean all I see is I enter in my credit card on the wizkids site or ebay, and out comes a book in the mail a week later. So is there anything really exciting going on that I can't already guess at (upper management says 'time to put out a new SR book', authors brainstorm and make up some ideas, editors call the authors bad names, playtesters playtest and tweak, artists hired and its sent off to the publisher)?
Why do game companies tend to horde upcoming products in secrecy, rather than get the product and details about it out to the public at large? The SR people haven't been too terribly guilty of this, but many other companies seem to want to hide everything until maybe a month before it is due out.
It seems to me that if you want to know how a product will be received, putting out news of it early will let you know how many people are willing to buy it. By waiting until the last minute and hiding all the details, companies gamble that what they're releasing is exactly what is wanted and that they can guess the sales figures.
One *possible* excuse I've seen in action is where a deal is not quite yet finalized for something like a game setting. You don't want to spook the other side, claim that something exists when it doesn't, or clue in your competitors that the setting is even up for sale. However, even after this stage, when all the deals are done and the book is in development, there still seems to be a conspiracy to keep it out of the knowledge of the people who will eventually buy it.
Likewise, what is the problem with saying "the art hasn't all come in yet, so the book will be late" or whatever valid reason exists instead of leaving consumers wondering why the release date has come and gone without a peep? Is it some horrible shameful secret that the print run was flawed or that the layout wasn't completed yet or whatever else happened to delay the product? Again, information is always appreciated. Without such a reason, fans speculate and do more damage through that than could possibly be done by admitting something like "the editor came down with strep throat and missed a week of work".
Is it just a case of ivory tower syndrome or is there an honest reason why holding back such information may be better than releasing it?
It seems to me that if you want to know how a product will be received, putting out news of it early will let you know how many people are willing to buy it. By waiting until the last minute and hiding all the details, companies gamble that what they're releasing is exactly what is wanted and that they can guess the sales figures.
One *possible* excuse I've seen in action is where a deal is not quite yet finalized for something like a game setting. You don't want to spook the other side, claim that something exists when it doesn't, or clue in your competitors that the setting is even up for sale. However, even after this stage, when all the deals are done and the book is in development, there still seems to be a conspiracy to keep it out of the knowledge of the people who will eventually buy it.
Likewise, what is the problem with saying "the art hasn't all come in yet, so the book will be late" or whatever valid reason exists instead of leaving consumers wondering why the release date has come and gone without a peep? Is it some horrible shameful secret that the print run was flawed or that the layout wasn't completed yet or whatever else happened to delay the product? Again, information is always appreciated. Without such a reason, fans speculate and do more damage through that than could possibly be done by admitting something like "the editor came down with strep throat and missed a week of work".
Is it just a case of ivory tower syndrome or is there an honest reason why holding back such information may be better than releasing it?
A very Good Idea.
1st Question: I know it has been said elsewhere, but how long, approxamately, does it take to make a new book start to finish (concept to in my hand)?
2nd Question: What determines if a book gets made or not? There are plenty of requests for books about every facet of the SR world. Is there some criteria for implementation?
3rd Question: Related to the 2nd. Where/Who generates Big Ideas for new books and adventures besides fans, assuming that the fan's Big Ideas are actually taken (I don't assume thet, really, given the quality of some of our ideas)?
1st Question: I know it has been said elsewhere, but how long, approxamately, does it take to make a new book start to finish (concept to in my hand)?
2nd Question: What determines if a book gets made or not? There are plenty of requests for books about every facet of the SR world. Is there some criteria for implementation?
3rd Question: Related to the 2nd. Where/Who generates Big Ideas for new books and adventures besides fans, assuming that the fan's Big Ideas are actually taken (I don't assume thet, really, given the quality of some of our ideas)?
| QUOTE |
| Why do game companies tend to horde upcoming products in secrecy, rather than get the product and details about it out to the public at large? The SR people haven't been too terribly guilty of this, but many other companies seem to want to hide everything until maybe a month before it is due out. |
Good question. It depends on the company, obviously, but here's what I percieve to be the primary reason: It's easier. Releasing useful information in advance takes time -- if I can spend a half day whipping up a preview for a book, or a half day laying out 10 pages of that book, I know where my time is better spent.
Second, releasing information doesn't tend to reduce the number of questions -- it raises them, as people ask questions about the content. More time is spent fielding those questions.
| QUOTE |
| It seems to me that if you want to know how a product will be received, putting out news of it early will let you know how many people are willing to buy it. By waiting until the last minute and hiding all the details, companies gamble that what they're releasing is exactly what is wanted and that they can guess the sales figures. |
Game companies cannot use the public's reaction to a product post-announcement as a barometer for popularity.
Game Company announces product X.
Fans don't seem to be wild on it.
Distributors and stores have pre-ordered some copies of product X. Information about product X has filtered through the system.
Game Company decides to cancel product X.
Stores, Distributors, and some fans get pissed off.
That said, if pre-orders are absolutely horrible, a product may be cancelled, and the number of pre-orders + percieved customer interest is a determining factor in print runs.
| QUOTE |
| One *possible* excuse I've seen in action is where a deal is not quite yet finalized for something like a game setting. You don't want to spook the other side, claim that something exists when it doesn't, or clue in your competitors that the setting is even up for sale. However, even after this stage, when all the deals are done and the book is in development, there still seems to be a conspiracy to keep it out of the knowledge of the people who will eventually buy it. |
With licensed products, a lot of this has to do with approvals -- almost anything you do [previews, advertising, etc] relating to a licensed product has to be approved by the property owner. This takes time, and you typically don't want to bother the owners with frivilous stuff -- you want them to know that when you send them something for approvals, it's important, and they should make it a priority.
And before contracts are signed, not a word should be spoken.
| QUOTE |
| Likewise, what is the problem with saying "the art hasn't all come in yet, so the book will be late" or whatever valid reason exists instead of leaving consumers wondering why the release date has come and gone without a peep? Is it some horrible shameful secret that the print run was flawed or that the layout wasn't completed yet or whatever else happened to delay the product? Again, information is always appreciated. Without such a reason, fans speculate and do more damage through that than could possibly be done by admitting something like "the editor came down with strep throat and missed a week of work". |
In some cases it's not nice to call out someone's failings -- I'll stand up and admit if I fuck something up or I'm not up to speed doing something, I don't particularly want my boss posting publically "yeah, Adam is being shitty. Dude, this book is taking forever."
And again, if someone is behind on something, they should probably be working on it, not spending time telling people how far behind they are.
| QUOTE |
| 1st Question: I know it has been said elsewhere, but how long, approxamately, does it take to make a new book start to finish (concept to in my hand)? |
Depends on the company, the game line, and the product type.
I'd say 1-2 years; two years for more complex things like new editions, new games, etc, a year for a supplement for an already existing line. Possibly even shorter for a smaller product and for products with fewer people working on them.
| QUOTE |
| 2nd Question: What determines if a book gets made or not? There are plenty of requests for books about every facet of the SR world. Is there some criteria for implementation? |
"Will this book make money for the company? Will this book make more money than any other book we could put in this slot?"
[In theory, the books that gamers want and need are the ones that will make money...]
| QUOTE |
| 3rd Question: Related to the 2nd. Where/Who generates Big Ideas for new books and adventures besides fans, assuming that the fan's Big Ideas are actually taken (I don't assume thet, really, given the quality of some of our ideas)? |
Pretty much anyone. Obviously each product has to go through the chain-of-command to get approval from the higher-ups, though.
Typically how this works is the Line Developer generates and gathers ideas, then writes up a list of books he wants to publish over the next year or two, and basically "sells" those books to the person in charge of scheduling -- usually the company president, given the size of most game companies.
Most companies hold meetings once in awhile to bash around ideas, think of ways to improve products, cull products from the schedule, etc. I spent a day and a half in meetings this week determining the 2004 and early 2005 GOO schedule, for example.
| QUOTE (Pthgar @ Nov 14 2003, 04:56 PM) |
| 1st Question: I know it has been said elsewhere, but how long, approxamately, does it take to make a new book start to finish (concept to in my hand)? |
Just my 2 cents on this particular since a critical element of this is understanding how the submission process for most game companies actually works since I've found its the single most common thing I've been asked about since the EuroSBers got SoE in.
I have to admit that my entrance into "freelancehood" wasn't really typical. I had a huge battering ram to knock FanPro's doors open, in the form of the EuroSB project. That being said I think the approach I took is the one everyone ultimately takes. I submitted a Proposal exactly as described in the FanPro Writer Guidelines.
First of all I suggest you carefully read the official Writer Submission Guidelines, especially the part pertaining to what actually constitutes a "Proposal" if you're thinking of submitting for FanPro but most companies have similar guidelines available online.
This is the single biggest problem people seem to have regarding the submission proccess. Having a "concept" is not enough and having a "draft" is too much. Read up on what a particular game company actually wants.
Let's take FanPro as an example. FanPro doesn't really want a finished draft (aka a manuscript), it wants a Proposal, which the Developer will study, take apart and finally (if approved) ask you if you're interested in doing it his way, or "to spec". Sometimes he really likes the contents of the proposal and the draft you end up being asked to write essentially follows what you would have done anyway, and sometimes he wants huge modifications and an entirely different approach but likes your writing style. In the couple of projects I've been in on I've seen both happen.
A Proposal goes far beyond a basic concept and on the other hand it isn't a sample of your writing or even a "working draft". It is an Outline of the book (or part thereof your submitting for), a Detailed Summary of what you would include in that Outline and finally a pitch (explaining why what you propose is a good idea, why it would sell and how it would enhance the game). All this within a tight wordcount. Follow the guidelines as strictly as possible since it'll demonstrate your ability to write and sell ideas within the limitations of a freelancer's worst enemy - wordcount.
If you're an "outsider" like I was you send in stuff blind and keep your fingers crossed. If your Proposal is good enough to sell your idea the Developer accordingly adjust the outline of a given book to include the section you propose, ask you to wait until an appropriate book comes up for development or in the case of something big like "Shadows of Europe" he'll try to schedule the book within his planned production schedule. This latter bit means that it will be scheduled when a slot is available in the production schedule. In the case of SoE for instance the first open slot was a year and a half after the original submission and actual development work only started then. In practice it will have been almost 2 and a half years since the EuroSBers proposed the concept and the book actually comes out.
The main reason full drafts are pretty useless is that during the ensuing development process of a book you might simply be told to change the Voice of a piece which means you have to rewrite the whole thing from scratch or the Developer might simply prefer a different approach to some subject which forces you to reorganize the whole thing.
Is there anything on some kind of item on a wishlist right now that a first time submission freelance writer might be able to take a shot at? You know, in case there happen to be any reading this.
Wow... aren't I a master of the art of subtlety.
Wow... aren't I a master of the art of subtlety.
| QUOTE (Digital Heroin) |
| Is there anything on some kind of item on a wishlist right now that a first time submission freelance writer might be able to take a shot at? You know, in case there happen to be any reading this. |
I think that potential freelancers should spend their time becoming familiar with the game line, the kind of supplements and support material that is published for it, and then hedge their bets by submitting proposals that fit in well, covering material that either expands the game universe in logical ways [For example, the genetech in SOTA:2063] or deals with fallout from previous products [the Wake of the Comet adventure set.]
Some game companies publish a public wishlist -- Steve Jackson Games, for one. The list of projects that FanPro intends to publish over the next few years for Shadowrun is also relatively well-known, so finding it and working up some proposals regarding products on that list is not a bad idea.
[Please note: I don't want to turn this into a 'How to Freelane for FanPro' thread, so if you want more specifics on that, I'd suggest spinning it off into another thread.]
Which brings me nicely round to another question:
I've been wondering if anyone has heard anything about Swords & Sorcery's development of the Aeon Continuum games post-relauch and who the lead developer might be (I've heard different accounts about who amongst the old developers will be involved but nothing specific on who's managing the show).
I've been wondering if anyone has heard anything about Swords & Sorcery's development of the Aeon Continuum games post-relauch and who the lead developer might be (I've heard different accounts about who amongst the old developers will be involved but nothing specific on who's managing the show).
I haven't heard anything either; certainly no public announcements.
I know that Bruce Baugh won't be involved, but that's the extent of my knowledge on this subect.
I know that Bruce Baugh won't be involved, but that's the extent of my knowledge on this subect.
What I'd heard was the Bruce Baugh would be involved in some of the writing but the development would be an as yet-unidentified someone else. I'm a big fan of Trinity and Adventure!, less so of Aberrant, and I've been considering submitting stuff to S&S (both artwork and writing), however I'm afraid this'll go down the route other S&S lines have gone where they stick to a stable of known writers (not that there's anything wrong with that as long as the books are good).
I don't know who's taking on the developing either, but if the Warcraft book does well, or has gone well in the developing process, then maybe Dierdre Brooks?
Oh, and Synner: While that was a nicely detailed answer on how to submit proposals, it didn't answer his question on "how long."
(Adam covered it, though.)
Oh, and Synner: While that was a nicely detailed answer on how to submit proposals, it didn't answer his question on "how long."
(Adam covered it, though.)
Very true. I did get carried away there, mostly because I've been contacted by a number of people since "DotSW" came out asking me, "how did you do it?"
When I tell them the EuroSbers simply followed the FanPro guidelines and I did much the same for DotSW, some have sent me their proposals for some critique and comment.
Invariably I've found most people don't really read the guidelines and while these proposals do introduce some nice plots and "concepts", they normally lack any reference to execution (appropriate format, Voice, context, etc), links to continuity and tie-ins to ongoing setting and most even lack a proper pitch (come on people you're supposed to be selling your idea!). That's not to mention the times people put together 20000-word drafts instead.
And thanks Pistons, I'll keep my ear to the ground and see if anything is made public before the first book hits the shelves since apparently they're starting with Adventure! and building towards Trinity (the one I'm most interested in) anyway. I especially like they're picking up the Continuum continuity where WW/arthaus left off.
When I tell them the EuroSbers simply followed the FanPro guidelines and I did much the same for DotSW, some have sent me their proposals for some critique and comment.
Invariably I've found most people don't really read the guidelines and while these proposals do introduce some nice plots and "concepts", they normally lack any reference to execution (appropriate format, Voice, context, etc), links to continuity and tie-ins to ongoing setting and most even lack a proper pitch (come on people you're supposed to be selling your idea!). That's not to mention the times people put together 20000-word drafts instead.
And thanks Pistons, I'll keep my ear to the ground and see if anything is made public before the first book hits the shelves since apparently they're starting with Adventure! and building towards Trinity (the one I'm most interested in) anyway. I especially like they're picking up the Continuum continuity where WW/arthaus left off.
Concur.
We had someone post on our [GOO's] mailing lists about a month back, basically saying "I know that reading submission guidelines isn't really the way anyone gets into the industry, so why don't you guys tell me what you're looking for and I'll do it?"
He was soundly ignored. The absolute first skill you need as a freelancer is the ability to follow directions -- even directions you don't like. Can't do that? You can't freelance.
We had someone post on our [GOO's] mailing lists about a month back, basically saying "I know that reading submission guidelines isn't really the way anyone gets into the industry, so why don't you guys tell me what you're looking for and I'll do it?"
He was soundly ignored. The absolute first skill you need as a freelancer is the ability to follow directions -- even directions you don't like. Can't do that? You can't freelance.
Why are video games treated like competition more than CCG and other types of genres?
It seems to me stores and "the industry" treat PC games like an curse. It is well known that many players of RPG's and such often play video games as well, while the reverse may not be true. I have not seen a store that sold both PC games and RPG's/CCG's, and yet this would seem to be a great way to attract new players.
It seems to me stores and "the industry" treat PC games like an curse. It is well known that many players of RPG's and such often play video games as well, while the reverse may not be true. I have not seen a store that sold both PC games and RPG's/CCG's, and yet this would seem to be a great way to attract new players.
I really don't think manufacturers think PC/console games are competition -- I'm sure some do, but I haven't met many that scream "oh my lord the sky is falling video games will kill us alllll!". Certainly everyone I know in the gaming industry likes to kick back with a video game once in awhile, if not daily. Honestly, it seems to be more of a fan thing to go "oh no! video games are killing my RPGs!"
The reason most game stores don't stock PC or console games is because the margins are razor thin -- sometimes as low as 10% on a title, and it's exceptionally hard to compete against proper game retailers and "big box" stores like Wal-Mart and the like. If you bring in a game that sells for $50 [paying $45, we'll ignore shipping] and a month later it still hasn't sold, but the other stores have discounted it to $30, you either have to keep it around at $50 and hope some fool buys it, or drop it to $30. If you sell it for $30, you now have to sell three more titles at full price [assuming $5 profit] just to break even. Plus, just investing in 20 titles is nearly $1000 -- a pretty hefty sum for most game stores.
The reason most game stores don't stock PC or console games is because the margins are razor thin -- sometimes as low as 10% on a title, and it's exceptionally hard to compete against proper game retailers and "big box" stores like Wal-Mart and the like. If you bring in a game that sells for $50 [paying $45, we'll ignore shipping] and a month later it still hasn't sold, but the other stores have discounted it to $30, you either have to keep it around at $50 and hope some fool buys it, or drop it to $30. If you sell it for $30, you now have to sell three more titles at full price [assuming $5 profit] just to break even. Plus, just investing in 20 titles is nearly $1000 -- a pretty hefty sum for most game stores.
Why the are margins so thin for video games?
I've noticed Borders stocking more RPG's than ever (due perhaps to the popularity of Forgotten Realms books?) and wondered why they didn't also have video games (DVDs, Music, Books, and Coffee). That led me to wonder why Gaming Stores don't. When I win the lottery...
Have RPG's outside the video industry experienced a general increase in sales since online RPG's such as Everquest have become popular?
What about since the availability of the Internet in general?
I've noticed Borders stocking more RPG's than ever (due perhaps to the popularity of Forgotten Realms books?) and wondered why they didn't also have video games (DVDs, Music, Books, and Coffee). That led me to wonder why Gaming Stores don't. When I win the lottery...
Have RPG's outside the video industry experienced a general increase in sales since online RPG's such as Everquest have become popular?
What about since the availability of the Internet in general?
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| I've noticed Borders stocking more RPG's than ever (due perhaps to the popularity of Forgotten Realms books?) [snippity] Have RPG's outside the video industry experienced a general increase in sales since online RPG's such as Everquest have become popular? What about since the availability of the Internet in general? |
Borders has been carrying RPG's for at least several years now (if not more); it's just that various locations may carry more than others due to their managers' cluefulness. The one near me has expanded their selection a little bit this year, but since most of the expanding has been d20 or OGL products, it's not much of an expansion if you really think about it. You're just not going to get as much variety as you would a gaming store.
As for RPG's popularity and their relation to the 'net, this is something that's been debated for a while even among "industry pundits" (boy, that's funny...
). Sure there's numbers, but they're not hard and fast at all and subject to RPG popularity in a given region, how good the local store is (good stores attract more business, bad ones chase it off), and so on. While the 'net and online games can be a gateway, they can also be a replacement. Some folks don't have the patience or desire for a tabletop pencil and paper experience. Others simply have no idea what it's about until they play online, and then discover RPG's (in general, or just discover that they're not so "nerdy" or "evil" as they might have thought).Because of that, I'm of the opinion that it balances out. I have no proof of course; it's not a terribly informed opinion, but it's all I've got.
Re: Video Games
Honestly, the profit margins aren't quite as bad as Adam says on new video games. From what I've picked up from my time at Babbage's and now GameStop, it's probably comparable to any other retail market.
The problem lies in the second part of what he said though... Games drop in price, sometimes very, very fast. You can see a 50 game drop to $30 in less than 2 months. And any copies that you didn't sell for full price, you've now lost all your profit margin on.
With video game systems it's much, much worse though. That's where stores make no profit, and why you almost never see a console system "on sale". Retailers sell consoles out of need, to help move the games themselves. Not for profit. Hell, the game companies themselves make little to no profit on a console (The PS2 was actually sold at a loss for at least the first 6 months or so. A loss to Sony themselves, not the distributors and retailers.)
And to further it a bit more... The biggest reason game stores rarely carry any kind of game stuff is that you would have to deal with yet another distributor, since Comic and RPG/CCG distributors don't deal in them.
Big pain in the ass all around.
Bull
Honestly, the profit margins aren't quite as bad as Adam says on new video games. From what I've picked up from my time at Babbage's and now GameStop, it's probably comparable to any other retail market.
The problem lies in the second part of what he said though... Games drop in price, sometimes very, very fast. You can see a 50 game drop to $30 in less than 2 months. And any copies that you didn't sell for full price, you've now lost all your profit margin on.
With video game systems it's much, much worse though. That's where stores make no profit, and why you almost never see a console system "on sale". Retailers sell consoles out of need, to help move the games themselves. Not for profit. Hell, the game companies themselves make little to no profit on a console (The PS2 was actually sold at a loss for at least the first 6 months or so. A loss to Sony themselves, not the distributors and retailers.)
And to further it a bit more... The biggest reason game stores rarely carry any kind of game stuff is that you would have to deal with yet another distributor, since Comic and RPG/CCG distributors don't deal in them.
Big pain in the ass all around.
Bull
New subject:
Is there an online source of RPG industry data? Things like game sales, company sales, market share, etc?
I've been out of the loop for quite a bit, and am curious as to where everyone stands in relation to the competition.
Another Question: Play testing/reading.:
I know you use play testers to try out new products, but what about readers? Someone that knows the system and setting that just reads the product for errors or inconsistancies? And if you do use test readers, how can someone get involved?
Thanks!
Is there an online source of RPG industry data? Things like game sales, company sales, market share, etc?
I've been out of the loop for quite a bit, and am curious as to where everyone stands in relation to the competition.
Another Question: Play testing/reading.:
I know you use play testers to try out new products, but what about readers? Someone that knows the system and setting that just reads the product for errors or inconsistancies? And if you do use test readers, how can someone get involved?
Thanks!
| QUOTE |
| Is there an online source of RPG industry data? Things like game sales, company sales, market share, etc? |
No. Very few companies release this sort of information publically or semi-publically.
| QUOTE |
| I know you use play testers to try out new products, but what about readers? Someone that knows the system and setting that just reads the product for errors or inconsistancies? And if you do use test readers, how can someone get involved? |
This depends on the company. Most often if they have some form of open playtesting they mention it on their website.
Thanks!
I'm surprised this thread didn't get more responses. Anyone else have further questions or follow-ups?
Adam, would it be possible to take one of the freelancer submissions that were well-received and make it publicy available as an example of what a submission should be like? It doesn't have to have been a successful submission (although that'd be great) -- but just one that was felt to be appropriately written.
I submitted a concept last year sometime, and I never heard a word back. Either it got lost in the mail, or it just didn't stimulate anyone. I'd be neat to compare what I wrote to an "ideal submission" to see if it was missing major needs. I read the freelancer submission criteria meticulously, but perhaps I interpretated something incorrectly.
I'm also not sure how to submit on a project that I know is already being considered, such as the Critters behavior and "how to use" concept that was kicked around on DSF awhile back. I have ideas for that-- but how do I sketch a contribution to a larger project?
Thanks in advance for your kind reply.
--K
I submitted a concept last year sometime, and I never heard a word back. Either it got lost in the mail, or it just didn't stimulate anyone. I'd be neat to compare what I wrote to an "ideal submission" to see if it was missing major needs. I read the freelancer submission criteria meticulously, but perhaps I interpretated something incorrectly.
I'm also not sure how to submit on a project that I know is already being considered, such as the Critters behavior and "how to use" concept that was kicked around on DSF awhile back. I have ideas for that-- but how do I sketch a contribution to a larger project?
Thanks in advance for your kind reply.
--K
| QUOTE (krishcane @ Jan 28 2004, 11:22 AM) |
| Adam, would it be possible to take one of the freelancer submissions that were well-received and make it publicy available as an example of what a submission should be like? It doesn't have to have been a successful submission (although that'd be great) -- but just one that was felt to be appropriately written. I submitted a concept last year sometime, and I never heard a word back. Either it got lost in the mail, or it just didn't stimulate anyone. I'd be neat to compare what I wrote to an "ideal submission" to see if it was missing major needs. I read the freelancer submission criteria meticulously, but perhaps I interpretated something incorrectly. I'm also not sure how to submit on a project that I know is already being considered, such as the Critters behavior and h"how to use" concept that was kicked around on DSF awhile back. I have ideas for that-- but how do I sketch a contribution to a larger project? Thanks in advance for your kind reply. --K |
1. I personally don't see why we couldn't do just that. In case permission needs to be secured from Rob, though, and if it's given, I'd be happy to offer one of my proposals as one example. (Probably the first one I did, which adhered very strictly to the guidelines at the time, which haven't changed much since. It's also the proposal that got me started on all this.)
2. If it was a proposal for a book that hasn't been solicited for just yet, it's also possible that you didn't get a response because Rob wanted to wait and add it to the rest of the proposals from the regular freelancers. He's also been extraordinarily busy the past few months, more so than usual. Your best bet would be to send a polite email asking if he's received your proposal, and reiterating your interest in working on the project you submitted for.
3. how do I sketch a contribution to a larger project?
It's no different, really. It's just a matter of scale. You'd still need an outline of what you'd like to write, the voice you intend to use, an estimated word count (if you feel you can provide one), the particular tack you'd like to take, the sort of information you'd have in there, and so on.
1. That would be awesome! Thank you so much! In fact, if Adam/Rob/you are cool with it, maybe it should even go on the srrpg.com webpage, now that I think of it. Regardless, I will enjoy reading it.
2. Good point. I should send a follow-up email. It was indeed an unsolicited book concept, which I know is the longest possible shot for freelancing. I just got inspired, so I sent it to start thoughts flowing.
3. Cool. Thanks. I'll need to sit down and put together my "Running Wild" concept contribution on animal behavior and psychology (ie. how to GM critters the cool way).
--K
2. Good point. I should send a follow-up email. It was indeed an unsolicited book concept, which I know is the longest possible shot for freelancing. I just got inspired, so I sent it to start thoughts flowing.
3. Cool. Thanks. I'll need to sit down and put together my "Running Wild" concept contribution on animal behavior and psychology (ie. how to GM critters the cool way).
--K
Adam, what's the exact release order and estimated ETA for Shadowrun's books? Some of us are interested in SotA:2064, and it wouldn't hurt to know when we should be pitching for it.
Howdy.
I really like the addition of fiction to the Shadowrun home page. It gives people who might be considering picking up Shadowrun material a feel for the Shadowrun world, even if in small bursts.
How would one get involved in submitting a piece of fiction for the website? Will only certain writers be approached? Or if I had a story idea, or an actual piece written that I wanted to submit, could I?
Continuing on the hypothesis that I could get involved, are there guidelines for short story submissions? Length requirements, topic limitations, etc.
Thanks!
SR13
I really like the addition of fiction to the Shadowrun home page. It gives people who might be considering picking up Shadowrun material a feel for the Shadowrun world, even if in small bursts.
How would one get involved in submitting a piece of fiction for the website? Will only certain writers be approached? Or if I had a story idea, or an actual piece written that I wanted to submit, could I?
Continuing on the hypothesis that I could get involved, are there guidelines for short story submissions? Length requirements, topic limitations, etc.
Thanks!
SR13
How would one get involved in submitting a piece of fiction for the website?
You'd be talking to me.
Will only certain writers be approached?
Nope. I have a preference for current freelancers, but others may submit proposals to me as well.
Or if I had a story idea, or an actual piece written that I wanted to submit, could I?
Yep. I prefer story ideas, because they can be reworked more easily than an already finished piece if either aren't quite what I'm looking for, but I'll at least look at either.
Continuing on the hypothesis that I could get involved, are there guidelines for short story submissions? Length requirements, topic limitations, etc.
Absolutely.
In a nutshell, these are the guidelines:
* Length: Approximately 5,000 words maximum. It would be better to have fiction a little shorter than that, but I'm not going to turn down something just because it's approaching 6,000 words. Just shoot for that ceiling, and don't sweat it if you overshoot a little.
* File Format: RTF (rich text files), please. This ensures cross-platform readability. Most folks I know have Word 2000 or some other incarnation of MS Word for Windows, but I know some of you have Macs or other word processing programs. All platforms and programs, however, can use RTF. Using the default 12pt Times New Roman is preferred, as is using Arial or Helvetica. Single spaced lines, double-spaced between paragraphs, no indent. Attach and send it to me via email to: drgnfyre AT netcarrier DOT com.
* No novels, serial or otherwise. Right now, the fiction goes up every two months, and I'd like to have different stories from different people. You may tell stories that involve the same character each time, or even stories that are somehow linked in some way, but that's as close to novels as I want to see. If you want to go that route, just pitch each story and not the group of them at once. See the second sentence.
* Spellcheck. I'll be checking over each story before I hand them off to be put on the web. I expect that now and then, typos, an odd misspelling or grammar problem will pop up, and I will correct those. However, I prefer that you proofread your entries before you hand them to me, whether it is a first draft or final draft.
* Feedback: You can expect this from me. It may take me a while to send some to you, but I will at least send you *something.* Generally, I'll let you know what worked and what didn't, and give some suggestions on how to improve the story. If I send you no feedback other than "it's good," I mean just that, and it will likely be put on the web as-is (along with any of the aforementioned needed corrections).
* Proposals: As I said earlier, please send me a proposal first. That way we don't waste each other's time if I'm not sold on your story and you'd prefer not to change it. If you have a good story idea and are not sure how you want to develop it, I'd be happy to give you some suggestions. It would be better if you already know what you'd like to write, however. Your proposal can be as informal as "What do you think about this?" and giving me a rundown, or as formal as a synopsis and outline. In the case of the latter, please attach them to your email.
* What I'm looking for: Give me street. Could be high-end, could be low-end. Could be a newbie runner hitting the Stuffer Shack, with moral quandaries or hijinks ensuing, could be someone who breakfasts with Jaguar Guards... but make it believable. Make it feel real. Please don't give me a Mary Sue, because I can smell them from a mile away. Writing stories that use your own characters are okay, but see above. If you're not sure that you can use existing Shadowrun signature characters, then it may be better off not to use them. If you're still not sure, then ask me. Right now, I have a "hands-off" policy in regard to WizKids' Duels characters. This is for everyone's protection.
* Compensation: Yes, you get some. When I've accepted your story and handed it off for web publication, please give me your name and mailing address so that I can give it to Rob. He will send you a book (you may need to discuss with him which one -- sorry, I don't think he's got any copies of UB laying around), or, if you have all the books, you will get a $25 gift certificate.
I think that about covers it. If you have any additional questions, send me an email or PM.
You'd be talking to me.
Will only certain writers be approached?
Nope. I have a preference for current freelancers, but others may submit proposals to me as well.
Or if I had a story idea, or an actual piece written that I wanted to submit, could I?
Yep. I prefer story ideas, because they can be reworked more easily than an already finished piece if either aren't quite what I'm looking for, but I'll at least look at either.
Continuing on the hypothesis that I could get involved, are there guidelines for short story submissions? Length requirements, topic limitations, etc.
Absolutely.
In a nutshell, these are the guidelines:
* Length: Approximately 5,000 words maximum. It would be better to have fiction a little shorter than that, but I'm not going to turn down something just because it's approaching 6,000 words. Just shoot for that ceiling, and don't sweat it if you overshoot a little.
* File Format: RTF (rich text files), please. This ensures cross-platform readability. Most folks I know have Word 2000 or some other incarnation of MS Word for Windows, but I know some of you have Macs or other word processing programs. All platforms and programs, however, can use RTF. Using the default 12pt Times New Roman is preferred, as is using Arial or Helvetica. Single spaced lines, double-spaced between paragraphs, no indent. Attach and send it to me via email to: drgnfyre AT netcarrier DOT com.
* No novels, serial or otherwise. Right now, the fiction goes up every two months, and I'd like to have different stories from different people. You may tell stories that involve the same character each time, or even stories that are somehow linked in some way, but that's as close to novels as I want to see.
If you want to go that route, just pitch each story and not the group of them at once. See the second sentence.* Spellcheck. I'll be checking over each story before I hand them off to be put on the web. I expect that now and then, typos, an odd misspelling or grammar problem will pop up, and I will correct those. However, I prefer that you proofread your entries before you hand them to me, whether it is a first draft or final draft.
* Feedback: You can expect this from me. It may take me a while to send some to you, but I will at least send you *something.* Generally, I'll let you know what worked and what didn't, and give some suggestions on how to improve the story. If I send you no feedback other than "it's good," I mean just that, and it will likely be put on the web as-is (along with any of the aforementioned needed corrections).
* Proposals: As I said earlier, please send me a proposal first. That way we don't waste each other's time if I'm not sold on your story and you'd prefer not to change it. If you have a good story idea and are not sure how you want to develop it, I'd be happy to give you some suggestions. It would be better if you already know what you'd like to write, however. Your proposal can be as informal as "What do you think about this?" and giving me a rundown, or as formal as a synopsis and outline. In the case of the latter, please attach them to your email.
* What I'm looking for: Give me street. Could be high-end, could be low-end. Could be a newbie runner hitting the Stuffer Shack, with moral quandaries or hijinks ensuing, could be someone who breakfasts with Jaguar Guards... but make it believable. Make it feel real. Please don't give me a Mary Sue, because I can smell them from a mile away.
Writing stories that use your own characters are okay, but see above. If you're not sure that you can use existing Shadowrun signature characters, then it may be better off not to use them. If you're still not sure, then ask me. Right now, I have a "hands-off" policy in regard to WizKids' Duels characters. This is for everyone's protection.* Compensation: Yes, you get some. When I've accepted your story and handed it off for web publication, please give me your name and mailing address so that I can give it to Rob. He will send you a book (you may need to discuss with him which one -- sorry, I don't think he's got any copies of UB laying around
), or, if you have all the books, you will get a $25 gift certificate.I think that about covers it. If you have any additional questions, send me an email or PM.
Sweet! Thanks, Pistons!
I'll be sending you a formal proposal soon.
SR13
I'll be sending you a formal proposal soon.
SR13
| QUOTE (JongWK) |
| Adam, what's the exact release order and estimated ETA for Shadowrun's books? Some of us are interested in SotA:2064, and it wouldn't hurt to know when we should be pitching for it. |
This sort of stuff really isn't my business; I'd suggest sending Rob a query letter and asking him to let you know when the book gets closer.
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| This sort of stuff really isn't my business; I'd suggest sending Rob a query letter and asking him to let you know when the book gets closer. |
Understood, thanks.
Hmmm...I'll seriously have to look into trying out for the writing...
*hurries off to make plans*
*hurries off to make plans*
Since we're talking about behind-the-scenes industry stuff, I thought some of you might like to see this article, from Pinnacle's web site:
http://www.peginc.com/ShootingBlind/Sparkt...SparktoPB01.htm
The most interesting part is the third segment, which discusses actual numbers of print runs, printing costs, and such.
X
http://www.peginc.com/ShootingBlind/Sparkt...SparktoPB01.htm
The most interesting part is the third segment, which discusses actual numbers of print runs, printing costs, and such.
X
What follows is something Lou Prosperi told me while discussing some ideas, and that we agreed it would be best for all to know. I've heard this before from other writers, but Mr.Prosperi sums it up in a few paragraphs:
| QUOTE (LouP) |
| One last thought for now. Here's a bit of advice to consider when working on stuff like this. When working out "The Truth" behind some secret (or even when just working out details of a person or place), define only as much as *necessary*, and as *little* as possible. What this means is that you don't need to flesh out every detail about who this character is, where he came from, and why he's doing what he's doing. Work out only as much as you *need* to know to present him in the sourcebook, and leave the rest unresolved. Of course, you can have theories and ideas about the rest, but so long as you don't nail it all down or carve it in stone, you leave yourself the freedom to change the details should the need arise. I picked up this approach of defining only as much as *necessary*, and as *little* as possible from Tom Dowd (former SR Line Developer) at FASA, and though Tom and I didn't agree on lots of things, this was one thing that we did agree, and I think it helped make our products stronger in the long run. |
Wow, this thread has been dead for a while...
My wife is currently attending art school and her teacher suggested working on getting published. She does mostly fantasy art. She prefers the Other Game/D20 mechanics, but has really fallen in love with the SR metaplot (she's been buying me modules like Harlequins Back, then asking me how everything ties together. I'm wondering why she doesn't just read the books herself, but whatever.) I mentioned that FanPro hires freelance artists, and has been taking a lot of flak for having bad art, even though art is ungodly expensive. Since she wants the resume buffer and experience more than the money, she'd love to do art for SR and would do it cheap. Unfortunately, the artist guidelines are pretty skimpy compared to the writer guidelines.
So I ask then, what should she do? Her work is largely computer generated, although she uses other things too (beyond crayons, I'm really not up with art. She has paints and really expensive pens she uses.) Are there any particular mediums FanPro looks for? Is there a particular style or content they want in the samples? Are the artists for the upcoming books already chosen? Would she get more consideration if she mentioned she'd accept lower pay? What is the average pay to begin with? She does a lot of fantasy stuff, but isn't so good with the mecha/cyber things yet, would that cause a problem?
In case anyone is curious, her website is www.tigerterritory.com , but looking over it, it doesn't look like she's added anything in almost two years.
My wife is currently attending art school and her teacher suggested working on getting published. She does mostly fantasy art. She prefers the Other Game/D20 mechanics, but has really fallen in love with the SR metaplot (she's been buying me modules like Harlequins Back, then asking me how everything ties together. I'm wondering why she doesn't just read the books herself, but whatever.) I mentioned that FanPro hires freelance artists, and has been taking a lot of flak for having bad art, even though art is ungodly expensive. Since she wants the resume buffer and experience more than the money, she'd love to do art for SR and would do it cheap. Unfortunately, the artist guidelines are pretty skimpy compared to the writer guidelines.
So I ask then, what should she do? Her work is largely computer generated, although she uses other things too (beyond crayons, I'm really not up with art. She has paints and really expensive pens she uses.) Are there any particular mediums FanPro looks for? Is there a particular style or content they want in the samples? Are the artists for the upcoming books already chosen? Would she get more consideration if she mentioned she'd accept lower pay? What is the average pay to begin with? She does a lot of fantasy stuff, but isn't so good with the mecha/cyber things yet, would that cause a problem?
In case anyone is curious, her website is www.tigerterritory.com , but looking over it, it doesn't look like she's added anything in almost two years.
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