Considering how many guarded installations there are, and the requisite magic-capable police force required to keep mage PCs from running roughshod, it seems like there's an inordinate amount of corporate mages out there.
Are the populations sufficient to sustain the kind of demand there seems to be?
Full Version: Wage Mage Demographics
| QUOTE (virgileso) |
| Considering how many guarded installations there are, and the requisite magic-capable police force required to keep mage PCs from running roughshod, it seems like there's an inordinate amount of corporate mages out there. Are the populations sufficient to sustain the kind of demand there seems to be? |
If you assume the demographics described in Street Magic... not really, no.
World wide there are 65,000,000 Awakened people. Leaving about 10-20 million magicians.
That's a bit low to have the kind of security mage wars that people seem to want and need.
-Frank
Although I agree that it's "odd" to say the least that the level of Mages have actually decreased as time has worn on, but I find myself questioning whether or not you "really" need wage-Mages on staff to keep the majority of the mage builds I've seen on these forums when enviromental defenses as simple as turning off the lights and releasing smoke, ect will deny most of the mage builds I've seen the LOS needed to use their mojo. (Or in the very least given them some nasty modifiers since very few builds remember that cyberyes are a must-have for Mages.)
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| i](Or in the very least given them some nasty modifiers since very few builds remember that cyberyes are a must-have for Mages.)[/i] |
Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but I don't get it. Why are cybereyes a must-have for mages? I usually try to keep my spell-tossers as clean essence wise as I can.
Wih the speed of astral travel, new warding rules, and the amazing Unified Sumoning stuff, 4th ed magic defense is quite a bit different than just parking a couple of Wage Mages everywhere.
In partuclar, there's a spot open to have a central magical building, wth a group of mages on call for break ins. Each facility has wards and, if they get breached, a signal pings the mage who made it, letting them know something's up. Along with that, there might be an on-call spirit that's bound to the site for a year and a day, plus a hotline for magical problems.
So, let's say that the ward gets breached. The mage on duty sends a couple of watchers, then goes to grab his gear and snap up a nice comba-ready spirit. The Watchers come back and tell him that it was a legit breakin, not just a random collapse, so, he goes Astral and flies over, spirit in tow. Once there, he investigates, looking for an astral signature to latch onto and, if he feels confident, he can ambush the intruder with magic and spiritual assistance. If it gets REALLY hairy, he has a Bound spirit or two that he can call on as well, or, failing that, he can send a watcher back to HQ, to bring in another mage or three.
No need for each facility to have mages when a small group can effectively guard all teh buildings you own in a single city.
In partuclar, there's a spot open to have a central magical building, wth a group of mages on call for break ins. Each facility has wards and, if they get breached, a signal pings the mage who made it, letting them know something's up. Along with that, there might be an on-call spirit that's bound to the site for a year and a day, plus a hotline for magical problems.
So, let's say that the ward gets breached. The mage on duty sends a couple of watchers, then goes to grab his gear and snap up a nice comba-ready spirit. The Watchers come back and tell him that it was a legit breakin, not just a random collapse, so, he goes Astral and flies over, spirit in tow. Once there, he investigates, looking for an astral signature to latch onto and, if he feels confident, he can ambush the intruder with magic and spiritual assistance. If it gets REALLY hairy, he has a Bound spirit or two that he can call on as well, or, failing that, he can send a watcher back to HQ, to bring in another mage or three.
No need for each facility to have mages when a small group can effectively guard all teh buildings you own in a single city.
| QUOTE (apollo124) | ||
Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but I don't get it. Why are cybereyes a must-have for mages? I usually try to keep my spell-tossers as clean essence wise as I can. |
Because modifiers such as distance and visibility apply to casting spells and their LOS. (-6 for full darkness, -2 partial, -1 glare, -2 for light fog/mist/rain/or smoke, -4 for the heavy versions of those, -4 thermal smoke on normal eyes) All of those can be significantly decreased with enhancements to the eyes, and although the externals are nice, it is better and safer to have them installed and accessible at all time via DNI.
I think one of the first games in 4e our group played had the GM allowing mages to blast away using astral perception at -2, so my group also never got the whole cybereyes thing.
| QUOTE (Trigger) |
| All of those can be significantly decreased with enhancements to the eyes, and although the externals are nice, it is better and safer to have them installed and accessible at all time via DNI. |
Most of the externals also don't work, being digital. Magnificiation is about it.
I also disagree on cybereyes for wagemages. Your average wagemage takes a year to get to grade one or so (damn, I recall reading this, but can't find it now) and the main book is pretty clear that a mage on-site is reserved for the most secure facilities. This doesn't mean the site isn't protected magically... a few cybered up dual-nature critters are cheaper than mage wages, after all. But that mage in question is goign to think long and hard about anything that take away what makes them the best and brightest among security, and that's the magic rating in a nutshell.
I think that waht makes sense to me is to have a system where a major facility has three mages on eight hour shifts, with spirits and watchers running patrols. A high security facility could get by with that one mage per shift rota if they simply install a fiber network and a mage sight goggle console in the warded mage 'ready room'. This would allow the mage to access (by switches and mirrors) major areas like access hallways, the entryways, the research labs, the computer mainframe/storage area. Nothing says 'suck' than a mage able to nuke you from three floors up. This preserves the very valuable magical talent, and allows a mid-level high security facility to not only have a mage on security the whole time, but able to pretty much cover the whole building without fear of some random Shadowrunner giving your valuable asset a severe case of lead poisoning.
If the site had the highest levels of security, the mages might very well live on-site, so if one has a problem (or spider riggers spot mana being tossed around) all three can come out to play.
I think that waht makes sense to me is to have a system where a major facility has three mages on eight hour shifts, with spirits and watchers running patrols. A high security facility could get by with that one mage per shift rota if they simply install a fiber network and a mage sight goggle console in the warded mage 'ready room'. This would allow the mage to access (by switches and mirrors) major areas like access hallways, the entryways, the research labs, the computer mainframe/storage area. Nothing says 'suck' than a mage able to nuke you from three floors up. This preserves the very valuable magical talent, and allows a mid-level high security facility to not only have a mage on security the whole time, but able to pretty much cover the whole building without fear of some random Shadowrunner giving your valuable asset a severe case of lead poisoning.
If the site had the highest levels of security, the mages might very well live on-site, so if one has a problem (or spider riggers spot mana being tossed around) all three can come out to play.
*Shrugs* See what I mean? Deny most Dumpshock built Mages natural sight and they have to switch over to Astral Perception, however the only problem with that is the "visibility" modifiers for Second Sight can also be fairly easily manipulated in the corp's favor.
Astral Perception -2
Background Illumination +2 through -2 (I imagine that normally it is +1 or --, but it really isn't that hard to release clouds of bateria or living spores or whatever to clutter up Astral Space with Auras as needed.)
Aura Noise +2 through -2 (Most targets probably range from +1 to -1, with -- or -1 being the most common.)
Shadow Clutter -1 through -4 (The before mentioned mundane smoke, chaff, ect.)
FAB Cloud -2 (Probably doesn't stack with the -2 from mundane bateria or spores, but would stack if used in a forest setting.)
Background Count ?? (In Third Edition most corp zones, cities ect carried a slight Background Count at all times.)
Using Astral Sight doesn't look quite as appealing anymore does it? And we haven't even touched on the idea of paying a Mage to lay down some Quickened Mana Static, ect...
*Edit 1.1*
Sterling I think what you are remembering is Synner saying on the boards that most Mages who have been Awakened for more then a couple of years are at least ( Grade 1 ) Initiates.
Although since that is the case, I wish we could get an offical BP cost for Initiation because it sucks being limited to either Magical newbies or the Mage version of a hick.
*Edit 2.0*
Also never forget that by opening your Third Eye into Astral Space you are also opening yourself to all of the dangers that comes along with it, and it really sucks to pop over to Astral Vision with the intent of nuking some mundane guards in the dark only to find a couple of Bound Spirits waiting for you there.
Astral Perception -2
Background Illumination +2 through -2 (I imagine that normally it is +1 or --, but it really isn't that hard to release clouds of bateria or living spores or whatever to clutter up Astral Space with Auras as needed.)
Aura Noise +2 through -2 (Most targets probably range from +1 to -1, with -- or -1 being the most common.)
Shadow Clutter -1 through -4 (The before mentioned mundane smoke, chaff, ect.)
FAB Cloud -2 (Probably doesn't stack with the -2 from mundane bateria or spores, but would stack if used in a forest setting.)
Background Count ?? (In Third Edition most corp zones, cities ect carried a slight Background Count at all times.)
Using Astral Sight doesn't look quite as appealing anymore does it? And we haven't even touched on the idea of paying a Mage to lay down some Quickened Mana Static, ect...
*Edit 1.1*
Sterling I think what you are remembering is Synner saying on the boards that most Mages who have been Awakened for more then a couple of years are at least ( Grade 1 ) Initiates.
Although since that is the case, I wish we could get an offical BP cost for Initiation because it sucks being limited to either Magical newbies or the Mage version of a hick.
*Edit 2.0*
Also never forget that by opening your Third Eye into Astral Space you are also opening yourself to all of the dangers that comes along with it, and it really sucks to pop over to Astral Vision with the intent of nuking some mundane guards in the dark only to find a couple of Bound Spirits waiting for you there.
Where are the range penalties for casting LOS spells? I've never seen them. Or at least, I've somehow managed to overlook them several times in the book. Or are they in Street Magic?
Remember that mages can have the Stim and Crank spells to pull longer hours if they need to, or even just take some Long Haul or get a Sleep regulator if they've got the essence/magic to spare. I really do think that having powerful magical troubleshooters who act as consultants (in addition to their other duties) for several facilities and have bound spirits to send out on emergency calls would be a good policy for many corps. There's bound to be facilities valuable enough to benefit from magical security but too insignificant to risk the life of a skilled mage over.
| QUOTE (farrenj) |
| Where are the range penalties for casting LOS spells? I've never seen them. Or at least, I've somehow managed to overlook them several times in the book. Or are they in Street Magic? |
perception modifiers are applied to the mage's spellcasting pool, iirc.
| QUOTE (Shadowrun Fourth Edition; page 173) |
| In some cases, the caster may need to make a Perception Test to determine if a given target can be seen well enough totarget with a spell. Th is Perception Test is part of the Complex Action required to cast the spell and takes no time of its own. Visibility modifi ers (including darkness, cover, and other impediments) noted for ranged combat also reduce the magician’s Magic + Spellcasting dice pool when casting spells. |
| QUOTE (Shadowrun Fourth Edition; page 173) |
| Casting a spell requires a Complex Action. Th e Spellcaster rolls Spellcasting + Magic, modifi ed by foci, totem bonuses, bound spirits, and/or Visibility modifi ers. |
Thr first quote implies that only the negative Modifiers are counted, where-as the second suggests that all modifiers are counted, in which case, make sure you get Vision Enhancement ( Rating 3 ) installed in your cybereyes for some extra dice. Personally I'm not entirely convinced that was meant to be intentional though unless one of the authors wants to chime in otherwise.
For me, it's clear. Vision Enhancement only adds dices to a perception test.
SR, page 324
SR, page 324
| QUOTE |
| Vision enhancement gives the character sharper vision. It adds its rating as a positive dice pool modifier to the user's visual Perception test. |
The ratings from Vision Enhancement don't count into a spellcasting test, because by RAW, they add their dice pool modifier only when you're making a visual perception test, which would be therefore a different test than a spellcasting test.
However, the other beneficial things like low-light vision, infrared and other stuff implanted in your eyes would clearly affect your spellcasting test, by reducing or negating negative visibility modifiers that would influence your dice pool.
Perhaps, seems like a bit of "what the meaning of is, is" to me though, but considering that I haven't been allowing it anyways at least I don't feel quite as guilty about shafting my players. 
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