Ok, this is a really simple question, maybe. Me and my friends are relatively new to SR,( all played less than 20 sessions, session usually only 2 hours or so) and we've been doing Combat spells like this.
1) Select Spell and Force
2) Determine appropriate dice pool modifiers,(we seems to forget visibility modifiers alot)
3) Roll Spellcasting + Magic + modifiers
4) If Direct target resists with Willpower + Counterspelling -or- if Indirect resist with Reaction
5) If at least 1 Net Hit on Spellcaster side, then target resists Spells Modified DV with Willpower for Direct, or Body + Half Impact + Counterspelling for Indirect. Is this correct? Re-reading the rules lately (We have 2 books, but both are usually not here even though I own one so this is just the second time I've gotten to read the Magic rules) it appears as though Direct spells are truly all or nothing. It mentions nothing(That I've noticed) about resisting the actual modified damage value. Oversight or unresisted damage? I don't know anymore. So.... Can someone help me out with this? I feel like an idiot.
Chris
Full Version: New Players Need Magic Help
Yes, Direct spells are indeed all or nothing. However, at the really high end they seem to go obsolete more than Indirect spells do. Once shielding hits the table it's quite hard to get your "all" instead of "nothing".
-Frank
-Frank
It's late so I may have misunderstood the point that you are getting at, but yeah, Direct Combat Spells tend to either work or not and they are nasty in their own right.
However, don't count Indirect Combat Spells out either, they don't have to deal with Object Resistance Thresholds, are better against Counterspelling, and a fireball will burn that goon you can't actually see. (Not to mention boosting damage via called-shot is semi-offical.)
A good Mage will have both Indirect and Direct spells and choose which is better on a case-by-case bais. A great Mage will remember that a gun or grenade is oftentimes the superior option.
*Edit*
Damn my fingers are getting slow these days.
However, don't count Indirect Combat Spells out either, they don't have to deal with Object Resistance Thresholds, are better against Counterspelling, and a fireball will burn that goon you can't actually see. (Not to mention boosting damage via called-shot is semi-offical.)
A good Mage will have both Indirect and Direct spells and choose which is better on a case-by-case bais. A great Mage will remember that a gun or grenade is oftentimes the superior option.
*Edit*
Damn my fingers are getting slow these days.
| QUOTE (DTFarstar) |
| 4) If Direct target resists with Willpower + Counterspelling -or- if Indirect resist with Reaction |
If Indirect you'd use Reaction + Counterspelling.
As to the main question, Frank answered that correctly already.
Oh, I'm the mage and I've got Lightning Ball and Stunbolt with more to come probably as the karma comes in. It appears I've been getting slightly shorted with my Direct Combat Spells. Yeah, just because the DV is high doesn't mean Indirect is bad. We were defending a drug lab owned by our gang and I saved the Street Sam's ass with a well-placed high force Lightning Ball. Force 9, 8 successes (DP of 16 - used edge to re-roll failures because I'm not facing a Drain of 9 for a damn 2 success spell.) Disabled 2 vehicles and killed about 18 random gang members before sending my Plasteel Homunculus possesed by a Force 6 Guardian Spirit out to mop up.
It was me, close combat ONLY adept, Stealthy Mystic Adept with no real combat anything, and the SS who got shot half to death because he stood on the edge of the roof and fired a HE rocket into their midst then stood there to accept the remaining 20-ish guys return fire. He made some amazing rolls and survived, but not anywhere near unharmed. So, after that I had to step it up or the SS probably would have gotten himself killed. Helped that the only opposing mage took HE rocket to the face and died. Pure luck too, SS rolled badly and scattered into his square and he glitched resistence, used edge to reroll and only got 1 success THEN rolled badly on soak. The GM rolled(in front of us) consistently badly for like 10 minutes then turned it around and beat me twice with 6 dice vs. my 11.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I thought that was how it worked(second time around anyway) so that's good.
Chris
It was me, close combat ONLY adept, Stealthy Mystic Adept with no real combat anything, and the SS who got shot half to death because he stood on the edge of the roof and fired a HE rocket into their midst then stood there to accept the remaining 20-ish guys return fire. He made some amazing rolls and survived, but not anywhere near unharmed. So, after that I had to step it up or the SS probably would have gotten himself killed. Helped that the only opposing mage took HE rocket to the face and died. Pure luck too, SS rolled badly and scattered into his square and he glitched resistence, used edge to reroll and only got 1 success THEN rolled badly on soak. The GM rolled(in front of us) consistently badly for like 10 minutes then turned it around and beat me twice with 6 dice vs. my 11.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I thought that was how it worked(second time around anyway) so that's good.
Chris
Fortune, on Indirect Spells I thought Counterspelling helps with soak not dodge?
| QUOTE |
| BBB pg 196 - Indirect Combat Spells: Indirect Combat spells are treated like ranged combat attacks; the caster makes a Magic + Spellcasting Success Test versus the target’s Reaction. If the spell hits, the target resist with Body + half Impact armor (+ Counterspelling, if available), with each hit reducing the Damage Value. If the modifi ed spell DV does not exceed the modifi ed Armor, Physical damage is converted to Stun. Note that nonliving objects resist damage from an Indirect Combat spell with their Armor rating x 2 (see Barriers, p. 157). |
Chris
Unless I missed an errata that isn't quite correct Fortune.
| QUOTE (Shadowrun Fourth Edition; page 196) |
| Indirect Combat spells are treated like ranged combat attacks; the caster makes a Magic + Spellcasting Success Test versus the target’s Reaction. If the spell hits, the target resist with Body + half Impact armor (+ Counterspelling, if available), with each hit reducing the Damage Value. |
| QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Aug 3 2007, 06:09 PM) |
| Fortune, on Indirect Spells I thought Counterspelling helps with soak not dodge? |
Yep ... my bad. I knew that too. I just wanted to make sure you knew that Counterspelling applied to Indirect as well as Direct Combat Spells (which upon rereading, you already knew). I'm so embarrassed!
No need to be embarrassed, we all miss things sometimes. Note my first post. Just glad you felt the urge to help.
Chris
Chris
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