Full Version: Paydata Prices
Browsing through the BBB, I couldn't find any reference to how much to pay for paydata. Based on VR2.0, it would be 5,000 per "point" and then sold using the normal fencing rules. Has that been superceded as of yet?
Check out the Shadowrun Mission files on the main website. Any mission will work since the beginning section goes through how it handles paydata (if I remeber correctly). Its not a linear system either, but its more based on your teams experience, but that would give you a good point of reference.
SR missions have a few examples where you can aquire paydata and has prices for them.
as a general rule, it ultimately boils down to how much money does the GM want the players to earn for going beyond the minimum.
as a general rule, it ultimately boils down to how much money does the GM want the players to earn for going beyond the minimum.
My runners broke into a lab and stole some harddrives on which the newest data about the bioware this lab invents is. i think it is worth a lot of money. I think i am gonna give them somewhat like 70.000 Nuyen for it, but it could easily be worth 500.000 or more...
| QUOTE (Kazum) |
| My runners broke into a lab and stole some harddrives on which the newest data about the bioware this lab invents is. i think it is worth a lot of money. I think i am gonna give them somewhat like 70.000 Nuyen for it, but it could easily be worth 500.000 or more... |
Hard drives? In 2070?
http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/23/samsung...e-laptop-drive/
We're seeing the end of hard drives now, let alone in Shadowrun. I think "data chips" are the traditional Shadowrun setting technology.
well some kind of mass data storage unit 
Let it be a harddrive or a freakin chip
Let it be a harddrive or a freakin chip
a few things:
1) just because something is worth 500k doesn't mean the characters know it's worth 500k, or that they can get 500k for it... they have to move it quickly, which means they don't necessarily have the time to find the exact right person to buy it. they'll have to settle for whatever connections they have. now, if one of your players happens to have an appropriate contact in a biotech firm, they might have a shot at getting full price for it. if not, they won't get nearly that much. and this assumes they even have the knowledge to realise just how much the idea is worth.
2) something can be worth a lot in theory, but don't forget it takes money to make money. in order for another firm to act on this information, they're going to have to reassign/aquire some resources, buy new equipment, and invest a lot of money because they have to duplicate the data fast in order to beat the original company to the market with the data (if they don't get there first, then it's worth nothing). so, a company buying the paydata will be keeping in mind that it's going to cost them a bunch to develop the idea. further deniable assets may be required to delay the progress of the corp they're stealing the idea from, and that corp is probably on high alert since they've just been hit by runners. which is going to come out of what they're willing to pay.
3) the people to whom it is worth the most (those who aren't doing similar lines of research) have to spend the most money to benefit from it. those who are already doing something along the same lines and who therefore have less changes they need to make will only benefit from a smaller portion of the paydata.
so i would say that even if you think it's theoretically worth 500k
they shouldn't get that much for it unless the team already knows someone (ie a contact who trusts them) who works for a biotech firm that has just started developing the exact things that are in the paydata who has the ability to authorize those kinds of expenditures, provided the team also majorly crippled the original corps ability to develop their research further.
besides, 500k is a really large amount in SR4... that's enough to buy alpha synaptic 3 from scratch, with some change left over...
1) just because something is worth 500k doesn't mean the characters know it's worth 500k, or that they can get 500k for it... they have to move it quickly, which means they don't necessarily have the time to find the exact right person to buy it. they'll have to settle for whatever connections they have. now, if one of your players happens to have an appropriate contact in a biotech firm, they might have a shot at getting full price for it. if not, they won't get nearly that much. and this assumes they even have the knowledge to realise just how much the idea is worth.
2) something can be worth a lot in theory, but don't forget it takes money to make money. in order for another firm to act on this information, they're going to have to reassign/aquire some resources, buy new equipment, and invest a lot of money because they have to duplicate the data fast in order to beat the original company to the market with the data (if they don't get there first, then it's worth nothing). so, a company buying the paydata will be keeping in mind that it's going to cost them a bunch to develop the idea. further deniable assets may be required to delay the progress of the corp they're stealing the idea from, and that corp is probably on high alert since they've just been hit by runners. which is going to come out of what they're willing to pay.
3) the people to whom it is worth the most (those who aren't doing similar lines of research) have to spend the most money to benefit from it. those who are already doing something along the same lines and who therefore have less changes they need to make will only benefit from a smaller portion of the paydata.
so i would say that even if you think it's theoretically worth 500k
they shouldn't get that much for it unless the team already knows someone (ie a contact who trusts them) who works for a biotech firm that has just started developing the exact things that are in the paydata who has the ability to authorize those kinds of expenditures, provided the team also majorly crippled the original corps ability to develop their research further.besides, 500k is a really large amount in SR4... that's enough to buy alpha synaptic 3 from scratch, with some change left over...
Or just one month of Luxury Lifestyle for the whole team.
In order to get the best prices you have to widely spread the word that you have something. Which is likely to get beck to the original owner, which would be bad for those who want to still be alive next Friday. If a broker buys the data he almost assuredly has someone that he is already planning to sell it to as soon as you walk out. You don't have those contacts. So the best you can try to do is make it worth your brokers time for him to get you a good deal.
'Hard drives' as an idea will always exist, and are perfectly acceptable. Non-portable storage will always be capable of holding more than portable storage, regardless of when and what it is. Besides, a solid state hard drive is still a hard drive, isn't it?
As for the value of paydata, its always best to offer them what you want them to have. Its one of those wonderful game balance things where you, the GM, gives the players the loot to keep them where you want them in respect to their power.
One time there was a decker in my group. He was new to SR and not all that great, but he really tried. He was having a lot of problems in cyber combat, so to give him a bit of help, after part of a run when the team had ninjaed some pay data, it 'just happened to be' some better programs. they were worth a bit of cash, but instead of fencing them the team let the decker load them up and use them. brought the decker up a bit and helped him out. Sure, the whole group would have each benefited a little if they had sold the data. But rather I used it to boost someone who needed it.
Also take into account how much they put into selling it. do they really try to get the most? or do they just say "oh, its pay data" and drop it on their fence? I always reward players when they put more effort into their actions.
As for the value of paydata, its always best to offer them what you want them to have. Its one of those wonderful game balance things where you, the GM, gives the players the loot to keep them where you want them in respect to their power.
One time there was a decker in my group. He was new to SR and not all that great, but he really tried. He was having a lot of problems in cyber combat, so to give him a bit of help, after part of a run when the team had ninjaed some pay data, it 'just happened to be' some better programs. they were worth a bit of cash, but instead of fencing them the team let the decker load them up and use them. brought the decker up a bit and helped him out. Sure, the whole group would have each benefited a little if they had sold the data. But rather I used it to boost someone who needed it.
Also take into account how much they put into selling it. do they really try to get the most? or do they just say "oh, its pay data" and drop it on their fence? I always reward players when they put more effort into their actions.
| QUOTE (Kazum @ Aug 25 2007, 06:22 AM) |
| I think i am gonna give them somewhat like 70.000 Nuyen for it, but it could easily be worth 500.000 or more... |
One of the guiding principles that I tend to work with when giving money to players for various things that they do is to know the price of someone's life. ¥500,000 is enough cash that someone, possibly quite a few someones, have to die before that kind of money comes to rest in anyone's greedy little fingers. The world, especially the underworld, nickles and dimes and has an incredible amount of hangers on and parasites. For ¥500,000, most contacts shown that kind of item would be motivated to hire a team to kill the runners and take the item for the contact who can cut out the middle man (pun pun pun) and roll around in the profits like a wallowing pig.
Whenever a large amount of money is involved, people die. Most street thugs would literally kill for ¥5,000 much less ¥500,000. I imagine this sort of situation coming to be four or five different people's cuts (think Payback) or being simply stolen from the players (think Layer Cake).
Also, as other users have noted, its not what you know (or what you have), its who you know. A runner does not have the kind of distribution chain or contacts to move anything of that value. If they did, why in gods name would they be 'running (more puns!).
- der menkey
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemingway
I think noonesshowmonkey has a good point; the amount of money that the data is worth has to be balanced against the fact that if it's worth enough to sell for that, it's worth enough to hire someone to go after. The payoff for a run can be anywhere between 10k and 100k on a regular basis; 2k-20k nuyen per runner will buy you some good talent. If some random Johnson or Fixer gets offered something really valuable for 500k, I can't tihnk of any reason why one of more of them wouldn't just hire another runner group to acquire it for them.
Well, should the mission to go after the runners fail it could hurt the Johnson or Fixers rep.
If word got out they back stabbed a group of runners that brought them valuable paydata. No one would ever bring them paydata again.
Reputation in the shadows is important. A runner who can't be trusted to complete the job will have a hard time finding jobs, and a johnson or fixer who betrays his employees and clients may find their business drying up.
Plus hiring another set of runners is dangerous, what if the target(the pc's) tells the hunters how valuable the data is or they find out some other way?
Then the Fixer might end up betrayed by the team he hired, now he's lost the paydata and the upfront money for the team he hired.
Then of course if the PC's discover who hired the team to kill them... well
So really there can be a ton of fun here.
If word got out they back stabbed a group of runners that brought them valuable paydata. No one would ever bring them paydata again.
Reputation in the shadows is important. A runner who can't be trusted to complete the job will have a hard time finding jobs, and a johnson or fixer who betrays his employees and clients may find their business drying up.
Plus hiring another set of runners is dangerous, what if the target(the pc's) tells the hunters how valuable the data is or they find out some other way?
Then the Fixer might end up betrayed by the team he hired, now he's lost the paydata and the upfront money for the team he hired.
Then of course if the PC's discover who hired the team to kill them... well
So really there can be a ton of fun here.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Aug 26 2007, 01:50 PM) |
| Well, should the mission to go after the runners fail it could hurt the Johnson or Fixers rep. ... johnson or fixer who betrays his employees and clients may find their business drying up. ... |
Rep means a lot only when people are trustworthy and rely on that trustworthyness. I imagine that in a world so mercenary, ¥500,000+ is more than enough for most people to say "the only time he ever screwed anybody was over half a mil... otherwise, he's a great guy!" Money talks.
Low rep runners are guttertrash and there is no reason why they would not be bought (read: killed) for that much cash.
| QUOTE |
| Plus hiring another set of runners is dangerous, what if the target(the pc's) tells the hunters how valuable the data is or they find out some other way? |
Ahhh, but then they get a cut.
| QUOTE |
| So really there can be a ton of fun here. |
Correctemundo.
Basically whenever there is a big pile of money its like a landfill and the whole underworld comes runnin like rats and seagulls, circling and chittering like mad. Its a dog pile. I never really worry about giving my players huge amounts of money or highly valuable goods.
In fact, whenever they get something over 50k, they try to get rid of it as fast (and quietly) as (meta)humanly fucking possible. They know that the heat is coming and a bigger fish will find them and "appropriate" their goods one way or another. Its cancer. Get rid of it as fast as you can, make as much as you can but let people that move goods move goods... Stick to the shadows, omae.
- der menkey
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemmingway
| QUOTE (noonesshowmonkey) |
| Rep means a lot only when people are trustworthy and rely on that trustworthyness. I imagine that in a world so mercenary, ¥500,000+ is more than enough for most people to say "the only time he ever screwed anybody was over half a mil... otherwise, he's a great guy!" Money talks. |
Ahhhh, but it's not half so good as the people saying "He kept his word even for the sake of half a mill.," you must admit.
Trust keeps you alive.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| Well, should the mission to go after the runners fail it could hurt the Johnson or Fixers rep. If word got out they back stabbed a group of runners that brought them valuable paydata. No one would ever bring them paydata again. Reputation in the shadows is important. A runner who can't be trusted to complete the job will have a hard time finding jobs, and a johnson or fixer who betrays his employees and clients may find their business drying up. Plus hiring another set of runners is dangerous, what if the target(the pc's) tells the hunters how valuable the data is or they find out some other way? Then the Fixer might end up betrayed by the team he hired, now he's lost the paydata and the upfront money for the team he hired. Then of course if the PC's discover who hired the team to kill them... well So really there can be a ton of fun here. |
You're describing exactly the risks that the runners, their employers, and their fence are going through already. It's two sides of the same coin. The team hired to get them might betray their employer for exactly the same reason that the fixer might betray their seller to avoid paying the full amount...
And besides, if a runner team does betray their employer, that's gonna hit their rep...
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