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Zhan Shi
1. If an adept uses "Attunement: item" on a weapon, does that weapon overcome "immunity to normal weapons"? Can it be used in astral combat? Since it requires karma to bind, and can be astrally tracked to the owner, I'm inclined to think yes.

2. When designing a new tradition, may one choose to use the same spirit more than once for the spell categories?

comments/suggestions appreciated.
Big D
I believe that the answer to 2 is "no", but I'm not sure why you would want to deliberately limit the types of spirits that you can summon in the first place.
Moon-Hawk
I am not 100% certain of any of this, it's just my take on it:

1) Attuned items do not bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons. They do not have an astral presence that accompanies a projecting magician, but they can be used when astrally perceiving (edit: this was originally "projecting", which was a typo on my part and causes confusion later in the thread. oops) just like any other mundane item, albeit with extra dice. They can be used as a link to the owner.
2) No, but I can't think of a good reason why not. Giving a tradition less spirit types generally makes them less powerful, not more, so I don't see how it would be abusive to make one with less, so as a GM if someone really wanted to I would probably allow it.
Apathy
I'm cynical and interpreted Zhan Shi's question a different way.

If the question is "I want to create a tradition that can only summon Spirits of Man. Can I set it up so that my Spirits of Man can perform Aid Sorcery for all my spell types", then I'd say "Sure".

If the question is "My mage will have a mentor that gives +2 dice to Spirits of Man. Since my Spirits of Man will be bad-assed, I want my unique tradition to allow Spirits of Man to perform Aid Sorcery on all my spell types", then I'd say "No" and thwack you with a carp.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Apathy)
I'm cynical and interpreted Zhan Shi's question a different way.

If the question is "I want to create a tradition that can only summon Spirits of Man. Can I set it up so that my Spirits of Man can perform Aid Sorcery for all my spell types", then I'd say "Sure".

If the question is "My mage will have a mentor that gives +2 dice to Spirits of Man. Since my Spirits of Man will be bad-assed, I want my unique tradition to allow Spirits of Man to perform Aid Sorcery on all my spell types", then I'd say "No" and thwack you with a carp.

biggrin.gif Excellent point.
Demerzel
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (Apathy @ Aug 28 2007, 03:44 PM)
I'm cynical and interpreted Zhan Shi's question a different way.

If the question is "I want to create a tradition that can only summon Spirits of Man. Can I set it up so that my Spirits of Man can perform Aid Sorcery for all my spell types", then I'd say "Sure".

If the question is "My mage will have a mentor that gives +2 dice to Spirits of Man. Since my Spirits of Man will be bad-assed, I want my unique tradition to allow Spirits of Man to perform Aid Sorcery on all my spell types", then I'd say "No" and thwack you with a carp.

biggrin.gif Excellent point.

I thought a carp would actually be rather blunt...
Zhan Shi
No, just curious, that's all. I was doing some stuff on jopp's force tradition and was trying to figure out what spirits it would conjure. The "humanoid" spirit types seemed to fit better, but there are'nt enough to fill out all the spell categories.
Big D
That's correct; we're one short of a pantheon.

If you're going for a humanoid (i.e., uber) spirit selection, the last slot will have to be fulfilled by the "close-enough" pick. For example, voodoo uses water for the last slot, and I have a home-build I like to toy with while playing with the rules that uses air for the last type. Plant is probably an excellent choice if you want a somewhat druidic feel (although that begs the question of why beast isn't in there). Build your flavor text, and figure out what fits it the best.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
1) Attuned items do not bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons. They do not have an astral presence that accompanies a projecting magician, but they can be used when astrally projecting just like any other mundane item, albeit with extra dice. They can be used as a link to the owner.

Attuned weapons (as distinct from weapon foci) do not bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons, and do not accompany the adept on the astral. They can be used as a material link to the adept.
Cain
Here's a question for Rob. Will he and the ex-Fanpro crew be relocating to Lake Stevens?
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Aug 28 2007, 08:06 PM)
1) Attuned items do not bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons.  They do not have an astral presence that accompanies a projecting magician, but they can be used when astrally projecting just like any other mundane item, albeit with extra dice.  They can be used as a link to the owner.

Attuned weapons (as distinct from weapon foci) do not bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons, and do not accompany the adept on the astral. They can be used as a material link to the adept.

AH, what's the point of quoting me and then saying the exact same thing? Is this just a verbose way of saying /agree, or do we have some kind of misunderstanding?
Cain
He's saying that they *don't* come along when a mage astrally projects, and you're saying that they do. That's the difference.
Da9iel
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
snip

1) Attuned items do not bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons. They do not have an astral presence that accompanies a projecting magician, but they can be used when astrally projecting just like any other mundane item, albeit with extra dice. They can be used as a link to the owner.

snip

Emphasis added. Moon Hawk did not say they do. Unless he ninja edited the post.
fumble
QUOTE
Emphasis added. Moon Hawk did not say they do. Unless he ninja edited the post.


What he did say they did is this (emphasis mine) :
QUOTE
They do not have an astral presence that accompanies a projecting magician, but they can be used when astrally projecting just like any other mundane item, albeit with extra dice.


I think he meant to say "when using astral perception", instead of "when astrally projecting", which created some confusion, which is what AH wanted to clear.

Cheers,
Fumble.
Moon-Hawk
Sh*t. Okay, now I see what I did. What I meant to say was that they can be used when astrally perceiving just like any other mundane item.
I couldn't see my own typo!
Sorry about the confusion; totally my fault. Fumble understands me.

And no, I don't ninja edit. I always make my non-trivial edits clear.
laughingowl
QUOTE (Zhan Shi)
2. When designing a new tradition, may one choose to use the same spirit more than once for the spell categories?

comments/suggestions appreciated.

Pretty much as other people have said the short simle answer is: No.

The more detailed answer goes 'why'.

If it is to 'fit' the style, then I would consider allowing it, though one BIG warning.

If a spirit is all types, that greatly increases a summoner power (since now all of their spirits can aid in any sorcery, instead of having one 'combat' one 'heal', etc...

I if for flavor I would consider allowing it but:

it become Random Tribal Style

spirit of man (warrior): Combat spell
spirit of man (wise woman) Healing
spirit of air illusion
spirit of water manipulation
spirit of beasts detection


while 'spirit of man' fills two differnt rolls, they are 'different' spirit of man... a 'wise woman' could not aid combat rolls, nor could a warrior aid healing spells.

I would consider allowing a spirit to function as two types, but would have to look at each one on a case by case basis. (probably would allow a Detection/Illusion pairing, would be less likely to allow a combat/manipulation or combat/anything pairing


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